Is faster always better in the wind? New slug info page3

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Nice analysis, Centercut. Ah, the American dream-more power is better. I played with some .223 loads years ago and found that the most accurate load was a 50 gr bullet at 2650 fps. This is WAY below the full capability of that round. I've owned a bunch of PCP rifles and it seems that the sweet spot for accuracy is around 900 fps for ALL of them. More attention needs to be spent on barrel maintenance and technique. I can shoot a specific rifle very well one day and horrible the next. It's all how you hold it, trigger pull, and a bunch of human variables. Folks think that if you buy the most expensive rifle, it will be the most accurate. Bovine scatology! I've got a rack full of Anschutzs that tell a different story.
 
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.......Folks think that if you buy the most expensive rifle, it will be the most accurate. Bovine scatology! I've got a rack full of Anschutzs that tell a different story.
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Paul, Really....."Bovine scatology! " I almost pissed my pants laughing at that one. Good one buddy. ps I might take one of them Anschutzs off your hands if they are 12fpe. 

Oh, and Centercut....great thread. Following with interest.

Gary
Venice, FL
 
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Thanks for posting that @hoople. Another informative article by Bob Sterne in Hard Air Magazine that will surprise you and change the way you shoot. And another concept for the science deniers to argue about... ;)

Some key concepts. 

- Double the distance, quadruple the wind effect. If the wind moves your pellet 2.5 inches at 50 yards the same wind will move your pellet 10 inches at 100 yards.

- The wind closest to the muzzle affects your shot significantly more than the wind closest to the target. 

I know I had been placing a single Windicator flag system at about 60 yards in 100 yard BR events. I’ll be changing that to 25 yards in the future...
 
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Bingo! Thanks Paul. That boils it all down to one simple fact...

“Subsonic rounds from an air rifle perform best between 850 and 950 FPS”

With 900 being the exact sweet spot. Period, end of report. It may vary a bit depending; caliber, slugs or pellets, etc, but you nailed it. 

;)
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Been shooting from 800 to 1000 fps in all cals and that ☝️ is my conclusion by experience...so checked! ;) 900 +- fps is the sweet spot. 
 
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Centercut you are welcome . I thought you could appreciate. The concept I found most interesting was: " What they fail to take into account is that once the pellet is deflected by a wind near the muzzle, it is now traveling at an angle to the line of sight. Even if there is no wind downrange, it continues to get further off target". After reading this article, no wonder reading the wind is considered an art form.
 
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Centercut you are welcome . After reading this article, no wonder reading the wind is considered an art form.
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Yes, it definitely is. That’s one of the biggest reasons I’m a big proponent of limiting or eliminating the number of sighters in these 100 yard event. The ability to read the wind and adjust your point of aim is a big portion of “shooting skill”. Or as you said, an art form. Allowing dozens or even hundreds of sighters removes that requirement to learn the wind reading skill or art form. Now all that’s done is shoot sighters until you have a few grouped closely then shoot a few targets. They’re not even looking at the wind, flags, trees, grasses, etc.

I for one would like to see the art form reintroduced to the shooting skills... Robert Buchanan said on AGN that EBR was started to get shooters with regular hunting rifles and skills to compete in a fun event. I can tell you as a hunter that I get no sighters, and rarely a second shot if I miss.

My recent post in the Hunting forum 116 yards GS shot had one chance for that head shot. Dial up 116 yards, hold-under 1/2 mil for the downslope and 1/2 mil for the wind, then steady and pull the trigger. Look ma, no sighters! ;)
 
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I am glad you mentioned sighters. Until you mentioned that was common practice in competition I had no idea that was allowed. In my opinion that takes away much of the luster. I have always held the the top competitors in these big BR events in great regard, almost awe, and marveled at their abilities. Maybe there are other shooting sports that allow sighters during competition but I have never heard of them. I do not get it.I am with you, I would vote for zero...IMHO
 
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I am glad you mentioned sighters. Until you mentioned that was common practice in competition I had no idea that was allowed. In my opinion that takes away much of the luster. I have always held the the top competitors in these big BR events in great regard, almost awe, and marveled at their abilities. Maybe there are other shooting sports that allow sighters during competition but I have never heard of them. I do not get it.I am with you, I would vote for zero...IMHO
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Trap and skeet-no sighters
Bullseye pistol-no sighters

You had better have your scatology together before shooting. I will say, however, that atmospheric conditions (temperature, humidity, pressure) do affect our PCP guns and their POI does change from day to day. That said, limit sighters to 5 or 10 shots.
 
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Man, I’m not sure how to practice for winds like at RMAC. In round 2, I had over a 4 mil dot wind drift right to left at 100 yards with .30 JSB 44.75 at 885 FPS. Brutal. It’s ugly when you get a 14 inch wind drift on a 5 inch diameter target. And continually shifting and changing. I’ve never seen so many good shooters miss the target entirely in my life... ;)
 
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OK, I take it back. Limit sighters. That wind sounds brutal. We get wind like that maybe 2-3 times a year, and it's usually accompanied by either rain or snow, with flying debris and falling trees. I was wondering, at the discretion of who ever is in charge, under such conditions why not move the targets back to 75yds for the finals? Don't think anyone would mind.
 
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I noticed something that might be relevant here when shooting the monsters. I was shooting them in my RedWolf with Heliboard. It has 12 power settings and normally I shoot them at 10 which is averaging 925fps. So yesterday I’m shooting and getting reasonable groups at 100y. Around an inch or a bit over. Normal stuff. 

Then just experimenting I bumped up to level 11 and shot them at 970fps and shot this 5 shot group. Oh and conditions where near perfect. 

1566080140_3259952275d587c8c0e5619.25201918_B0CD57F6-B101-4B48-A0BE-2BF264A1A1EC.jpeg


5 shots. 

So Im wondering if there could be more going on than here and the shoots are getting higher precision at these higher speeds “but” it’s fragile and easily set into instability by the wind. Like driving a car fast with a trailer on. You can fly along but if the thing gets unsettling look out! 

What drew many very experienced shoots to shoot at those high speeds? 

And another question. Could you shoot with you RedWolf with to programs. One for very good conditions and one slower for wind. Just make the decision on the day?

Michael
 
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This is what I think might be a factor in this speed craze? And it started with last yrs EBR IMO, to shoot some of these high BC “PELLETS” namely the Jsb .22 25.39gr RD’s, to stabilize these RD’s quickly as they leave the barrel they have to be shot at these higher velocities 930+fps to retain the accuracy and take advantage of this BC! ( if you can’t stabilize the projectile quickly then the BC is nullified?) I did this experiment with jsb.177 13.4 RD’s most 25m shooters won’t shoot them because they aren’t as accurate at that range and the velocity (about 815fps) to keep them at the 20ftlb restriction (HV) now I upped the velocity incrementally to about -860fps then they started to come around! (but way over the ftlb restrictions for competition)Now take the .30 Jsb 44.75gr pellet and it seems to stabilize almost instantly as it leaves the barrel at say 860fps, it’s the perfect combo... stabilizes quickly and stays in that optimal velocity range to take advantage of it’s BC! now there maybe many more factors involved? It might just be the perfect caliber to pellet shape and velocity ratio???, just my uneducated 2-cents! I wanted to add that in my RWhp .22 the jsb 18.1’s @ about 890fps on low power is the most accurate combo I’ve ever witnessed out to about 75yds! Maybe even 100yds? I just am not a good enough shooter to take advantage of this!
 
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@nomojo65, I think you may be correct. A lot of good shooters got sucked into the .22 RW and the “one gun” challenge at EBR. So they needed to shoot .22, and the RD Monster was the sole option. And shooting it fast enough to stabilize it yet slow enough to take advantage of the BC appears to have been a challenge. I’m willing to bet most would have preferred to shoot .30 if they weren’t a member of the Wolf Pack. This was evident by the lack of .22 shooters at RMAC and the vast majority of shooters with .30 caliber. Although many shooters got swept up in the “faster is better” hype...
 
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