Is baiting for pests hunting?

[JungleShooter]

Here's one overview of hunting types — hunting methods — and hunting techniques, see the 1-page table attached.



It would be helpful to define what exactly is required for animal killing to classify as "hunting". 



It seems like we all grew up with widely different ideas of what those requirements/ principles might be that make the killing of an animal "hunting". 

Without much reflection, most of us probably will simply continue the values and principles our fathers or uncles or other hunting mentors have passed down to us.... And proclaim these as universal laws.... ) 



Even the purists of the David Crockett club keep discussing these requirements (and have defined certain baiting scenarios as "hunting"). 



Anyhow, find attached the PDF that helped me think a bit deeper about this.  

Matthias 



Attachment:

View attachment HUNTING. Hunting Types and Hunting Methods.1638386020.pdf

 

[boscoebrea]

A question was asked, opinions were given,no big deal.

WTF you going hunting for rats and pesting for deer,,,,,funny how the use of words and the meaning of them can change outlooks and attitudes.

And what as known as meat hunters,food on the table just like pioneer days,none of it is wrong .

 

[L.Leon]

@survivor45, that rat is huge!

 

[Ripper]

To me it doesn’t matter if you want to call it pesting or hunting. In some states you can only legally kill certain animals when they are in season. That includes squirrels and rabbits.So if there are rabbits in your yard in the summer and you want to kill it because it’s eating your flowers, then in some states you are breaking the law.And in those certain states it doesn’t matter if it’s your property or not.You can tell the DNR whatever you want .Choice is yours.But they used to have a law in my state that farmers were allowed to kill deer eating their crops. I don’t know if that law still exists.And I do remember years ago in Maryland and Pennsylvania, you could not bait deer. But people do it now.They are always changing the hunting laws.I put a little bit of ammonia in my trash bag to keep the raccoons out of it.Are trash pick up makes us use bags only. I poke a few holes in the bag to let the scent of the ammonia get out and they never bother it anymore.The only thing I don’t have any problem killing is rats and mice no matter how I have to do it.

 

[Babaganoush]

To me, I don't see any real difference if you put bait out for a pest and its head gets thumped by a steel kill bar or a lead pellet. Same tactic....different delivery system. 

 

[Blackpaw]

Baiting to me is NOT HUNTING. also in many states it is illegal, at least for game animals, pesting is different. To me pesting and hunting are not the same thing.

Pesting is say helping a farmer get rid of feral pigeons, collared doves, and starlings, etc and shooting i.e. rodents i.e. prairie dogs and ground squirrels is still pesting, not hunting. Hunting is pursuing, seeking and stalking game which is illusive, where the predator is at the mercy of the prey. If I go out for cottontails, deer or squirrels, for example, without bait stations then that is hunting.

On this topic, while waiting for my plane to Salt Lake City from Houston, I was speaking with a guy from Iowa who happened to be down with a buddy "hunting" as he "quoted" at a game ranch. He said his buddy paid for it, so he joined, but he wasn't impressed by "hunting" penned animals. This guy said he had thermo-nightvision etc on his gun in Texas, which if he used in Iowa would be VERY illegal, as it is in Idaho for game animals. I think these tools have their place, but for me it is very limited situations, i.e. pig hunting, or pesting, not for deer etc. And I will never go "hunting" on a game farm because that ruins the experience of the hunt, and is not fair chance.

 

[JungleShooter]

Baiting to me is not hunting.

To me pesting and hunting are not the same thing.

OK. I get it. There are different opinions of how to define "hunting."



Now, I'd love to ask a question to all of us who for some reason feel they need to read threads like this and even make posts on such threads :



WHY is this so important to us (you) that certain forms of killing wild animals ARE NOT HUNTING?

Why?

For example: How does it benefit you if certain forms of killing wild animals will not be called "hunting" — but "pesting" or "baiting" or "animal shooting"?



What do you feel you are loosing if the above distinction is not made?





This thread makes me reflect on our underlying assumptions and agendas....



Matthias

 

[BlackICE]

My definition of hunting is taking the animals for food or trophy. Sometimes bait is used for hunting. When you kill an animal because is bothering you and don't intend to eat it or keep it as a trophy then it's a pest and independent of whether you bait them, or not, it is pesting.

 

[Bigragu]

I remember as a young hunter getting into the sport of deer hunting in my late 20’s, I read every article in magazines and books in hopes of bettering my skills in the field. As it is at 28 years old with my first rifle, a Remington 700 in 30-06, I felt I was already behind the eight ball as most of my friends started hunting with their dads as kids(no dad for me).



In one of the hunting magazines there was an article on creating a food plot for deer, in where it discusses roto tilling the land, throwing down special seed and grain, that’ll all grow and provide nourishment for deer, and at the end of the article it says come deer season, if you’ve plotted out the patterns of the deer, you’ll have a trophy awaiting for you at your cultivated food plot.

then, at the end of the magazine where all the ads are, you see the “Dr tiller” ad along with places to buy good seed and fertilizer for your food plot. This is considered baiting, correct?

this topic was brought up in a different approach, and I remember an AGN member said these words- “I go to my local farmer buddy’s property when deer season starts, and hang out at the edges of the corn field. Am I wrong to do that?”

 

[sasquatch]

This is a very subjective discussion.



I won't bait but I'll wait til the herd of elk has to run out of the mountains due to huge snowfall into the valley where they are easy to pick off. That's morally better than baiting



As already stated... I won't bait but I'll shoot geese or deer coming into a corn or soybean field. That's real hunting as opposed to a corn pile someone else placed



I'm against baiting on a squirrel because I'd rather shoot them eating a walnut already on the ground. I'm sure the squirrel don't give a crap either way. 



I'm against baiting coons (or bears) but I'll shoot those pests if they get near my trash can full of scraps or knock over my grill.

I'm against baiting Coyotes but if they eat fluffy the cat or the neighbors Chihuahua then that's crossing the line and they need shot those domesticated animals are not food sources much like a walking steak

And so on... 

 

[rangur1]

OP here , While there have been many valid points of view expressed on this thread , most missed the jist of my post. I was not looking at whether pesting was hunting. More to the fact it is different , with different challenges. My first sentence was "no , pesting is NOT hunting , but it has it's own challenges , and is NOT a cake walk." As far as tangents to this point regarding legality - you should know the rules in your given area. Am I a " borderline psychotic" - LOL! No Dizzums , I can assure you I'm quite stable and , generally in a positive mood. Pesting is the only time I currently shoot animals. I am NOT a hunter , never claimed to be. But down the road if I choose to pest wild hogs for example from a blind , is it that much different from using a deer stand? I had tried to keep this sensitive topic streamlined to simply show how much different is hunting from pesting really? Meanwhile , as several posters brought up , there are several different styles of hunting , classic woods walking / stalking , deer blinds , sitting in a blind with decoys and so on. I respect ALL techniques. 

In the end , I chose to use my pesting situation as a means to begin teaching myself certain aspects of the shooting / hunting applications in that you use all tools. Cameras , your shooting kit obviously as well as NV if needed. You learn to study your quarry and observe ways to successfully take it down. Whether it is the lowly rat or all the way up to deer / bear. pesting and hunting SHARE that limited connection. I do appreciate all the feedback , however I would suggest to all this is NOT a thread with the position of " my particular technique is legit and yours is BS" approach. After all , it's all about putting lead to the target! Be well all!

 

[sasquatch]

I certainly didn't miss the point. But I'm not sure you expected or cared for some of the responses. None of mine came with malice. I've been on and administered hunting forums for almost 2 decades. Hunted all kinds of stuff with bows, guns etc. This is not a new topic. People need to understand they can't impose their morality onto others, other than by changing laws. What is also not spoken about is the definition of hunt or hunting. As by most dictionaries. A more universal definition which does not include or exclude specific tactics in general. 

 

[sasquatch]

Sorry for my rants guys. I apologize for being an ass.



Mostly I just wanted people to think outside the box of their own world. I got a bit out of line

 

[BackStop]

I think it all comes down to the definition of "hunting". 

Some people may have a different definition. So be it.

 

[beerthief]

Baiting is also a safe target zone . A feeder for squirrel with a backstop might be needed on a city lot as an example .

 

[sasquatch]

Right.



Baiting is a reasonable approach. You could be baiting to lure pests away from a property where it's not safe to shoot or even where permission is not allowed. Bait can get animals to sit still for just a moment to make a deadly shot where animals don't run off to another property. 

 

[Willydog]

I put up a deer feeder that clicks on for one second everyday at 9am. It draws a lot of songbirds. It’s also draws in the squirrels who keep jacking with my security cameras. I’ve got a chunk of a tree stump as a backstop. To me that’s the preferred method instead of trying to line up a tree shot with a backstop.

 

[BackStop]

I put up a deer feeder that clicks on for one second everyday at 9am. It draws a lot of songbirds. It’s also draws in the squirrels who keep jacking with my security cameras. I’ve got a chunk of a tree stump as a backstop. To me that’s the preferred method instead of trying to line up a tree shot with a backstop.

What do you use for feed? 

Thanks

 

[str8shot]

After $1200 in wiring harness replacement, 2021 Toyota Tacoma 4x4, all rodents go BuBye.

Psychotic is a harsh word and baiting to kill rodents without the use of poison is actually HUMANE. I would NEVER want any of our songbirds, or even neglected stray cats, to get poisoned.

Lead Dispensers Save Lives!

Agreed, groundhogs almost totaled my daughters car, had to replace the entire engine wiring harness.

 

[BackStop]

Having seen how rats die from various poisons, I agree that clean kill shots from a pellet gun are MUCH more humane. However, each has its place.

I could not get rid of the rats by shooting them and the neurotoxin poison bait was like crack or heroin for them, but did not kill them. They just came back for more and more.

But the anticoagulant poison bait DID kill them within 2 or 3 days. I used 2 different types of anticoagulant poison bait. The rats died an agonizing death, but they died.

Do I feel any regret? Nope.

p.s.

Also, the rat poison bait that uses vitamin D3 (safer for other animals, humans, etc) had absolutely NO effect on the rats in my yard. YMMV