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Is .22 too small of a hunting caliber?

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No dont poach, never do that you could get in trouble. I guess that lost guy didnt see the extensive search of the law you just posted? Nation wide no less, geez what more does he want? Thank you for that by the way. Some folks just dont like it when others know more than they do.
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He seemed lost (to all reality) to me too. It wasn't an extensive search though. The link was the 2nd one on the search page. The 1st link was a pdf file. Although granted, ever since google changed its search algorithms a couple of years ago, its made research more difficult. It's a shame all search engines link their results to google. What google did affects all of them. 

There appear to be a lot of PETA members here. Have you noticed that also?
 
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No dont poach, never do that you could get in trouble. I guess that lost guy didnt see the extensive search of the law you just posted? Nation wide no less, geez what more does he want? Thank you for that by the way. Some folks just dont like it when others know more than they do.
Click to expand...

He seemed lost (to all reality) to me too. It wasn't an extensive search though. The link was the 2nd one on the search page. The 1st link was a pdf file. Although granted, ever since google changed its search algorithms a couple of years ago, its made research more difficult. It's a shame all search engines link their results to google. What google did affects all of them. 

There appear to be a lot of PETA members here. Have you noticed that also?
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Most certainly.

Why come here and pick fights is a true fools errand. Better off going to eat a soy sandwich with some almond milk.
 
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No dont poach, never do that you could get in trouble. I guess that lost guy didnt see the extensive search of the law you just posted? Nation wide no less, geez what more does he want? Thank you for that by the way. Some folks just dont like it when others know more than they do.
Click to expand...

He seemed lost (to all reality) to me too. It wasn't an extensive search though. The link was the 2nd one on the search page. The 1st link was a pdf file. Although granted, ever since google changed its search algorithms a couple of years ago, its made research more difficult. It's a shame all search engines link their results to google. What google did affects all of them. 

There appear to be a lot of PETA members here. Have you noticed that also?
Click to expand...

Most certainly.

Why come here and pick fights is a true fools errand. Better off going to eat a soy sandwich with some almond milk.
Click to expand...

Could be its their job?

Groups like PETA and HSUS Blocked from Infiltrating State ...

https://www.thehuntingnews.com/groups-like-peta-and-hsus-blocked-from-infiltrating-state-game-agency/

Groups like PETA and HSUS Blocked from Infiltrating State Game Agency Anti-hunters are trying different tactics to end hunting as we know it. They have used non-scientific based legislation to curtail certain hunting practices in an attempt to kill hunting using the death of 1000 cuts strategy.

If anyone ever wondered why our game laws are so screwy............... 
 
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I don't think an animal knows how the projectile was fired - with a spring pushing a piston or compressed air. I have no issue at all with an experienced and good shot using 12 fpe or lower air rifles of either type on small game but I am not a good enough shot to reliably kill animals cleanly with less than about 20 fpe. Brain shots work lower but sometimes I miss the brain. So I like a little more power so the animal dies quickly. Fortunately on my Prod that is just a matter of turning the hammer spring tension up a bit.

I have not attempted a brain shot on a deer or a hog but if I do so, it will probably be a hog, at least first. In my state, hogs are not even game animals. I want to be ethical but I'd rather take a little risk on a hog. If I do it, it will be with my Avenger, 25 caliber, tuned to about 50 fpe. I know it will shoot through 3/4 MDF at 25 yards because I tried it. MDF is a lot easier to find than deer skulls, at least for me. I think it is reasonable to expect that a rifle that can shoot through 3/4 plywood or MDF at your hunting distance will also penetrate a fairly large animal skull. Others with more experience have suggested this is the case. My little 22 Prod will not come close to this sort of penetration (it is tuned to about 750 fps or 18 fpe). My Prod is also not nearly as accurate as my Avenger at 50 yards. So it is my short range small game gun - which it does very well. 

I would encourage others to try not to wound game by using a gun that you cannot shoot well or one with insufficient penetration to do what you are trying to do. Having an animal run off wounded is just what anti-gunners want to find to try and shut us down. It can happen to the best of us but we need to take reasonable steps to try and avoid it.
 
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.22 27gr slug at about 50ftlb

IMG_0820.1621529707.JPG
IMG_0821.1621529708.JPG
IMG_0822.1621529709.jpg
IMG_5666.1621529710.jpg

 
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JeffDodge

Great pics, Jeff! Nice shooting. Looks like you killed the thread though. *Grins*

They say a pic tells a thousand words and you have shown the naysayers how easy it is for a .22 to go through, ... hide, connective tissue, muscle and bone ... to scramble the brain of a deer.
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squirrels are clearly much tougher than Bambi! 
 
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JeffDodge

Great pics, Jeff! Nice shooting. Looks like you killed the thread though. *Grins*

They say a pic tells a thousand words and you have shown the naysayers how easy it is for a .22 to go through, ... hide, connective tissue, muscle and bone ... to scramble the brain of a deer.
Click to expand...




squirrels are clearly much tougher than Bambi!
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Especially if you're restricting the power you're using to 7 fpe on impact.
 
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JeffDodge

Great pics, Jeff! Nice shooting. Looks like you killed the thread though. *Grins*

They say a pic tells a thousand words and you have shown the naysayers how easy it is for a .22 to go through, ... hide, connective tissue, muscle and bone ... to scramble the brain of a deer.
Click to expand...




squirrels are clearly much tougher than Bambi!
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Especially if you're restricting the power you're using to 7 fpe on impact.
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they drop the same as when I use to hit them with 25! Many AGN members besides me have chimed in with real data to clearly show we don’t need absurd amount of power to kill a little rodent effectively. I’ve suggested this before, just shoot a 2x4 at the range you want to shoot and if you can’t dig out the pellet easily then it will kill a squirrel. Squirrels’ skulls are egg shell thin and their vital is actually pretty large as a target. 



Like the good old saying: the smart learn from their mistakes but the wise learn from other people’s mistakes. Then there is internet that substitutes all reality with their opinions. Without real data everything is just fresh bovine byproducts. 
 
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qball

So maybe Bambi actually is a little tougher to kill than a squirrel?

I don't do much squirrel hunting these days for a couple of reasons.

1. Several of my neighbors where I live have made 'pets' of the squirrels in the neighborhood. Who am I to remove one or more of their 'pets' and make them feel bad when their beloved rodent goes missing?

2. My next door neighbor whom I despise HATES the neighborhood squirrels w/ a passion. She has a Chihuahua which she walks a few times a day. The dog barks at the squirrels and the barking makes her crazy. LOL

Back in the days when I did actively hunt squirrels I had no trouble putting them down and I've often used airguns of low to moderate power to do it. I've always used 515 fps / 8 fpe ( in .22) as a baseline. My Benji 392 at 4-5 pumps is a great backyard squirrel killer. I also have a Winchester 1977XS which when using Daisy 7.87 wadcutters at 7 pumps for 731 fps / 9.3 fpe would make a superb squirrel killer. Although the same rifle using the same pellet w/ 5 pumps for 655 fps / 7.6 fpe would be fine at closer range.

Likewise for my flat topped, .22 Backpacker and flat topped 1389. 
 
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Back around 1985 I shot a deer while hunting quail in West "By God" Texas. Actually I was hunting the Lake OC Fisher Corps of Engineers property in San Angelo. My friend and his Spaniel were just kicking up Bob Whites when the dog went into a patch of Cholla and out came a small buck headed for me at about 15 yards and on a dead run. I was carrying my double side-by-side loaded with bird shot in one barrel and buck shot in the other. I just raised up and shot that deer in the face at about ten feet. He piles up right at my feet and was kicking. I stepped up on his neck and just stood there to make sure he shut down as quickly and humanely as possible. After a minute or so I picked him up and took him home to clean.

You know I missed that shot completely. When I cleaned that little buck I discovered three pellet holes in one of his ears. That was it. I missed the deer. The deer was knocked out by the muzzle blast. It was killed when I stepped up on it's neck while it was in shock from the blast.

You guys are arguing a topic we routinely argue here. One guys says you can kill a deer with a "Red Ryder" then next guys unloads upon him for being an inhumane bastage unworthy of his own skin. Teams are selected and the fight is on. The topic is almost ALWAYS good for ten pages. NOTHING is ever resolved but everyone gets an opportunity to piss in someone else's coffee. AIN'T THE INTERNET GRAND?

Seriously though, the FIRST deer I ever killed, I was 14 I guess. I was in a tree stand about eight feet above the forest floor on Fort Eustis in Virginia. The little doe walked under me at about ten feet. I could have killed her humanely with a sharp stick. I did kill her HUMANELY with my Red Wing Hunter at 43# and a Bear Broadhead. She ran 70 yards with an arrow through her heart and both lungs.

NOW LISTEN CAREFULLY ... Every air gun in my shed would have stopped that deer in her TRACKS with a head shot and done it more humanely than that arrow did.

When will you gentlemen learn it is about the HUNTER not the tool?
 
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Food for thought squirrels also carry a brain wasting disease so that could attribute to the fight after frontal lobotomy. But I read an article about shooting squirrels in the dome that was in the Missouri dept of conservation a long time ago the squirrels have a cavity below the brain that was slightly bigger than a .22 basically it said not to shoot them in the dome because it could miss the brain and they would scamper off after a head shot. But a .22 is not to small I pop squirrel all the time with a .177 in the heart lung all the time. Works out great 
 
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.22 27gr slug at about 50ftlb

IMG_0820.1621529707.JPG
IMG_0821.1621529708.JPG
IMG_0822.1621529709.jpg
IMG_5666.1621529710.jpg
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Were you hunting in NY when you killed that one? 

Their regulations specifically state that ariguns and airbows aren't legal for big game. Personally id have to agree. But I won't be the one to decide and write the ticket.
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On the surface just from looking at the photo's: I'd say it is a clear cut case of self defense against a carnivorous predator that would have been likely to harm Mr. Dodge; had he not taken measures to defend himself. Oddly enough, New York DOES still allow self defense. (Can you BELIEVE that? What on Earth are they thinking?)

https://lawofselfdefense.com/jury-instruction/ny-justification-use-of-deadly-physical-force-in-defense-of-a-person/

And, it is duly noted that you are on the same side of the people who have screwed up America's game laws.
 
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And, it is duly noted that you are on the same side of the people who have screwed up America's game laws.
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I think there's a pretty valid reason that most all states that I know of don't allow rimfire or small caliber airguns for big game hunting. 

If you aren't smart enough to see why, then I believe you need to buy a mirror and do a little self reflecting before throwing accusations. 

All that needed to happen there was for the deer to move it's head a couple inches in either direction, and Mr. Dodge would still be looking for that deer. 
 
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And, it is duly noted that you are on the same side of the people who have screwed up America's game laws.
Click to expand...

I think there's a pretty valid reason that most all states that I know of don't allow rimfire or small caliber airguns for big game hunting. 

If you aren't smart enough to see why, then I believe you need to buy a mirror and do a little self reflecting before throwing accusations. 

All that needed to happen there was for the deer to move it's head a couple inches in either direction, and Mr. Dodge would still be looking for that deer.
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Wasn't this your quote ... "Their regulations specifically state that ariguns and airbows aren't legal for big game. Personally id have to agree "?

What other interpretation is there? 

You 'think' there is 'a pretty valid reason' for America's game laws being screwed up and that I'm not smart enough to see why ? But, you aren't willing to say why specifically?

I think there's a pretty valid reason too for the reason America's game laws are so screwed up ... lets see if we are on the same page.

Groups like PETA and HSUS Blocked from Infiltrating State …

https://www.thehuntingnews.com/groups-like-peta-and-hsus-blocked-from-infiltrating-state-game-agency/

Groups like PETA and HSUS Blocked from Infiltrating State Game Agency Anti-hunters are trying different tactics to end hunting as we know it. They have used non-scientific based legislation to curtail certain hunting practices in an attempt to kill hunting using the death of 1000 cuts strategy.

I live in Texas. We have to use .30 PCP's to hunt most species of game animals. Other states mandate .35 and/or .40 caliber. Ever wonder why that is? 

When .22 caliber is obviously more than adequate?


 
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And, it is duly noted that you are on the same side of the people who have screwed up America's game laws.
Click to expand...

I think there's a pretty valid reason that most all states that I know of don't allow rimfire or small caliber airguns for big game hunting. 

If you aren't smart enough to see why, then I believe you need to buy a mirror and do a little self reflecting before throwing accusations. 

All that needed to happen there was for the deer to move it's head a couple inches in either direction, and Mr. Dodge would still be looking for that deer.
Click to expand...

Wasn't this your quote ... "Their regulations specifically state that ariguns and airbows aren't legal for big game. Personally id have to agree "?

What other interpretation is there? 

You 'think' there is 'a pretty valid reason' for America's game laws being screwed up and that I'm not smart enough to see why ? But, you aren't willing to say why specifically?

I think there's a pretty valid reason too for the reason America's game laws are so screwed up ... lets see if we are on the same page.

Groups like PETA and HSUS Blocked from Infiltrating State …

https://www.thehuntingnews.com/groups-like-peta-and-hsus-blocked-from-infiltrating-state-game-agency/

Groups like PETA and HSUS Blocked from Infiltrating State Game Agency Anti-hunters are trying different tactics to end hunting as we know it. They have used non-scientific based legislation to curtail certain hunting practices in an attempt to kill hunting using the death of 1000 cuts strategy.

I live in Texas. We have to use .30 PCP's to hunt most species of game animals. Other states mandate .35 and/or .40 caliber. Ever wonder why that is? 

When .22 caliber is obviously more than adequate?

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Its to discourage people that don't know any better from trying to kill deer with headshots from small caliber rifles, from stupid ranges. Lost deer=wasted resources that other responsible hunters could have enjoyed. 

Putting in place a caliber restriction to larger calibers, that deliver more energy, opens the possibility for a heart/lung shot, which is a MUCH larger target with MUCH more margin for error for either shot. 

As for the airbows, those get cut down because people tend to buy them to take advantage of archery season, without having to put in any practice to be proficient with real archery equipment. And likewise, tend to attempt shots at unreasonable ranges. I saw the same thing, firsthand, here in Alabama when crossbows were legalized. I found 4 deer on the little patch of public land I hunt in the FIRST season. All were hit in the hindquarters, with crossbow bolts. 

Lost animals are wasted resources. Simple as that. Regulations are in place to preserve what little hunting we have left, for more people to enjoy. 

There you go. Spelled out so a third grader can understand. 

You start with the PETA poop in every post you make in the hunting section. When in reality, the biggest influence on stricter hunting regulations is unethical or irresponsible hunters. 

The things you don't see on the internet is when "perfect shots" don't end up going so perfect. You only see the good ones, just like on TV. 

And before you tell me what side of the fence I'm on, know that I have been a Compton's Traditional Bowhunter, and Backcountry Hunters and Anglers member for years and fight for land rights and longer more lenient seasons every year. Petitions, sending letters to state departments etc. 

What have you done to help "game laws" other than bitch about PETA on the internet? 
 
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I live in Texas. We have to use .30 PCP's to hunt most species of game animals. Other states mandate .35 and/or .40 caliber. Ever wonder why that is? 

When .22 caliber is obviously more than adequate?

Click to expand...

Its to discourage people that don't know any better from trying to kill deer with headshots from small caliber rifles, from stupid ranges. Lost deer=wasted resources that other responsible hunters could have enjoyed. 

Putting in place a caliber restriction to larger calibers, that deliver more energy, opens the possibility for a heart/lung shot, which is a MUCH larger target with MUCH more margin for error for either shot. 

As for the airbows, those get cut down because people tend to buy them to take advantage of archery season, without having to put in any practice to be proficient with real archery equipment. And likewise, tend to attempt shots at unreasonable ranges. I saw the same thing, firsthand, here in Alabama when crossbows were legalized. I found 4 deer on the little patch of public land I hunt in the FIRST season. All were hit in the hindquarters, with crossbow bolts. 

Lost animals are wasted resources. Simple as that. Regulations are in place to preserve what little hunting we have left, for more people to enjoy. 

There you go. Spelled out so a third grader can understand. 

You start with the PETA poop in every post you make in the hunting section. When in reality, the biggest influence on stricter hunting regulations is unethical or irresponsible hunters. 

The things you don't see on the internet is when "perfect shots" don't end up going so perfect. You only see the good ones, just like on TV. 

And before you tell me what side of the fence I'm on, know that I have been a Compton's Traditional Bowhunter, and Backcountry Hunters and Anglers member for years and fight for land rights and longer more lenient seasons every year. Petitions, sending letters to state departments etc. 

What have you done to help "game laws" other than bitch about PETA on the internet?
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Every post, eh? Hmm... prone to exaggeration, are you? Oh and btw? It's not just PETA.

Hidden Enemy: HSUS - The Humane Society of the United States

https://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=PETA+and+HSUS+infiltrated+governments&d=4695005052082028&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=dEJt9k-HK2dXCvkLbAwl-wXWKFKug1Rv

HSUS or PETA: Which Anti-Hunting Extremist Organization is Worse?

by NRA HLF Staff - Monday, July 25, 2016

https://www.nrahlf.org/articles/2016/7/25/hsus-or-peta-which-anti-hunting-extremist-organization-is-worse/

Quote:

HSUS CEO Wayne Pacelle said, “We are going to use the ballot box and the democratic process to stop all hunting in the United States… We will take it species by species until all hunting is stopped in California. Then we will take it state by state.” And it has. HSUS works to pass laws restricting both hunting means and the ammunition that can be used. The goal? Make it harder—and more expensive—to hunt. While Pacelle made these comments on Dec. 30, 1991, as executive director of the anti-hunting group Fund for Animals (FFA), they show how long the anti-hunting campaign has worked to exterminate all hunting. (In 2004, FFA merged with HSUS under the HSUS umbrella and, Pacelle’s leadership, went on to merge with several more “animal welfare” groups to expand its reach.)

--

So you see ... in reality, the biggest influence on stricter hunting regulations is NOT 'unethical or irresponsible hunters'. 

The biggest influence on stricter hunting regulations AND making it MUCH more expensive to hunt w/ airguns is the infiltration of game agencies, local, state, and federal govt's by radical activists that have been working to exterminate all hunting for a LONG time. But, lets concern ourselves w/ more recent events, considering the date of the above article is July 2016.

Has it never occurred to you PETA/HSUS members are members at AGN also? And/or, at every other form of social media online? I've seen a number of posts here in the hunting section and elsewhere at AGN that could have been made by them. Some posts are blatant, others are more subtle. Heck, some of those posts are right here at this thread.

Point is, you ... me ...and every other airgun hunter is being subverted (i.e. brainwashed) by them. Slowly, day by day. Some folks are seeing their point of view. Most of us are not being subverted by them and never will be.
 
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thumper

Compton Alabama Traditional Bowhunter, and Backcountry Hunters and Anglers

https://www.traditionalspiritoutdoors.com/giving-back.html

Quote: 

As for the airbows, those get cut down because people tend to buy them to take advantage of archery season, without having to put in any practice to be proficient with real archery equipment. And likewise, tend to attempt shots at unreasonable ranges. I saw the same thing, firsthand, here in Alabama when crossbows were legalized. I found 4 deer on the little patch of public land I hunt in the FIRST season. All were hit in the hindquarters, with crossbow bolts. 

Lost animals are wasted resources. Simple as that. Regulations are in place to preserve what little hunting we have left, for more people to enjoy. 

--

And, you're scared of amateur airgunners? How many amateur archers are running around the woods because of your group? That shouldn't be there? That wouldn't be there if not for ... Compton's Alabama Traditional Bowhunter, and Backcountry Hunters and Anglers ?
 
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