Inside the Skout Epoch

[JoePolanco]

How about American Air Arms quality?

May I ask what is the hardness of your barrels?

I've been very impressed by the Evol and have been lucky enough to have been privy to it from its first release through the gun to date. Tom's build ethic is second to none. The guns are solid, durable performance machines. The build quality is excellent and the gun is a quality product. However, once you've put your hands on an EPOCH, you'll understand why I feel it's the finest quality manufactured air rifle on the market.

 

[Pale_Rider]

Any facts to back up the claim that the epoch is the “finest quality manufactured air rifle”. Do they use better quality metal than every one else? Does their machining have the tightest tolerances? Etc.

 

[Peskådot671]

SKOUT Airguns hit the ground running with their EPOCH .30 caliber platform. Right out of the gate, the .30 caliber has already proven itself to be an amazingly accurate gun. SKOUTs build quality is without ANY question, the best in the industry. The EPOCHs single knob velocity adjustments allows the gun to deliver consistent speeds/power levels which is IME, revolutionary. However, as with any new product, there have been some bumps in the road. While the .30 caliber is everything SKOUT has promised, the second caliber that WAS to be released, the .25 (my caliber of choice), has proven to be far more challenging. The .25s release has been plagued by numerous accuracy issues, not something a manufacturer can tolerate in a competition rifle. These issues have caused several delays and some redesign of several aspects of that calibers hardware. To SKOUTs credit, they've chosen NOT to release the gun in .25 until the very high performance level already set by their .30 caliber has been equaled. Of course, this will cause the naysayers to fire up their trolling pens but that's just the nature of the Internet. However, for those that realize that real quality and true innovation requires extensive R&D and with that comes a ton of failures along the way, it's SKOUTs commitment to the project and customer satisfaction that I've taken enough heart in to go "all in" on.
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To my knowledge, I'm still the ONLY owner of a .25 caliber outside of the SKOUT company. Even as the SKOUT team continues their tests, I too have been testing and reporting back to them on a daily basis. It's my hope that we can get this thing all sorted out before NAC in mid April so I'm able to shoot the .25 in that competition. However, such is my faith in the platform, that should that NOT come to pass, I absolutely will be shooting the .30 caliber.
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As for the EPOCH ability to use liners produced by other manufacturers, that has always been a part of their plan and "YES" it remains an option for those that choose to do so. I currently have that capability with my .25 caliber although, personally, I've seen no real advantage to doing so. As I've stated all along, although I'm NOT affiliated, sponsored by or in anyway attached to SKOUT, where the EPOCH is concerned, I'm "in it to win it" as I know they are. I'll continue to work with them and to share all I can with all of those interested.

Cheers
Joe P.

Wise move on their part instead of rushing and delivering a subpar product.

 

[Scotty1]

Joe, will you elaborate on your .25 set-up? Are you running an FX liner? What kinds of problems are you experiencing? I’m curious if it is a shot cycle thing. I think it was Qball who suggested that there may be problems with metering a smaller burst of air through a large delivery system …
I’m also interested in what Motorhead thinks when he has one in his hands, fresh eyes and mind may be very helpful indeed!

 

[JoePolanco]

Joe, will you elaborate on your .25 set-up? Are you running an FX liner? What kinds of problems are you experiencing? I’m curious if it is a shot cycle thing. I think it was Qball who suggested that there may be problems with metering a smaller burst of air through a large delivery system …
I’m also interested in what Motorhead thinks when he has one in his hands, fresh eyes and mind may be very helpful indeed!

The issues I've been dealing with regarding the 3rd party liner system I'm currently testing involve repeated shifts in POI. Since not all liners are created equal, each liner is going to require a unique mounting/tensioning system in order to remain securly in place. The EPOCH barrel system requires some modified hardware in order to keep these 3rd party liners from rotating within the housing.

This issue however is a back burner challenge that I anticipate will be resolved easily. The more pressing issue is finding the perfect combination of specs (#of Lans, depth of the Lans and ideal twist rate) that will allow the .25 to be as competitive as its .30 counterpart.

Currently, with the .25 caliber, 1 moa is repeatedly achieved in about 50% of the groups shot at 100 yds. That, simply isn't nearly good enough. The goal is 50% of all groups within .5 moa with the remaining 50% within the 1 moa field. This is the bar that's been set by the .30 cal EPOCH as we'll as several other competion grade rifles. IMO there's no reason to expect that the .25 should be any less capable.

 

[JoePolanco]

That is a true statement. But it has nothing to do with efficiency.

I kinda got sidetracked and forgot the discussion on efficiency. But here's a synopsis if you're still interested.

The pneumatic balanced spool valve is a type of valve that is commonly used in fluid power systems. When compared to the traditional poppet valves, the pneumatic balanced spool valve has several advantages that make it a more efficient option.

One of the primary advantages is its ability to provide precise control over the flow of fluids or in this case air. Unlike poppet valves, which rely on the opening and closing of a movable disk, a balanced spool valve uses a cylindrical spool that slides within a bore. The position of the spool determines the flow of the air, and the position can be modulated to provide very precise flow control. The spool also helps to reduce the pressure drop across the valve, which helps to conserve energy and reduce overall air consumption.

Another advantage of a balanced spool valve is its ability to handle higher/lower-pressure applications. Poppet valves are often limited in their ability to handle pressures due to the forces required to operate the movable disk. In contrast, a balanced spool valve is designed to handle pressure applications by using a balanced spool. This design feature helps to reduce the amount of forces required to operate the valve, which makes it more efficient and reliable.

The pneumatic balanced spool valve is also more reliable and durable than traditional poppet valves. Poppet disks can become worn or damaged over time, which can affect their ability to seal properly. The spool in a pneumatic balanced spool valve, on the other hand, is less prone to wear and damage due to its robust design. The spool is also less likely to stick or seize, which helps to ensure that the valve operates smoothly and reliably virtually forever.

Finally, a pneumatic balanced spool valve is more versatile than any traditional poppet valves. Poppet valves are often limited in their application due to their size and design. A pneumatic balanced spool valve can be designed in a variety of configurations to meet the specific needs of a wide variety of applications. This flexibility makes it a more efficient option overall.

By providing precise control over the flow of their medium, balanced spool valves can handle higher and lower pressure applications, are more reliable and durable, and are generally more versatile.

As airguns continue to evolve and demand more efficient and reliable components, the pneumatic balanced spool valve is likely to become an increasingly popular option IMHO.

 

[qball]

Any facts to back up the claim that the epoch is the “finest quality manufactured air rifle”. Do they use better quality metal than every one else? Does their machining have the tightest tolerances? Etc.

I fondled with one and shot with another, build quality is indeed very good. "finest quality manufactured air rifle"? Maybe, it certainly is up there with all the airguns I've seen. Very good machining with what appears to be good tolerances but I don't know beside how things seems to fit and feel. I do like how large the machined pieces are which reduced the need to have super tight tolerance like impact because it doesn't have many parts to assemble and extremely rigid. The anodize finish is different because they use shinny finish vs matte finish on other guns, we all know how people like shinny stuff. The electronic systems seems to be pretty good but I'm still on the fence about electronic airgun stuff even though I drive an EV. The carbon parts are very nice including the carbon cheek riser, very pretty but it made little difference in how much the whole gun weights.


The one distinctive advantage is the poppet/valve is HUGE compared to other airguns. Only gun that has something close in valve size is the Panthera so would love to see a panthera side by side comparison. Maybe I'll finally breakdown and get a Panthera after tax is done. LOL!

I do think Epoch has potential and wish them best of luck on their journey.

 

[Motorhead]

Actually the Anodizing is NOT shiny, but more a BUFF / MATT finish tho very smooth .

qball, get that Panthera & we'll dance

 

[Scotchmo]

I'll try to briefly explain WHY the plenum size is not consequential in terms of the EPOCH. …

I’d still like to know what the plenum volume is. Does anyone know? If so, what is it?

 

[Scotchmo]

I ordered a .30 Skout as a pellet shooter. It should be here soon

Since the .25 Skout magazine holds the Altaros King slugs perfectly, I wanted to look into the possibility of shooting those slugs, but after some testing with the dealer’s Skout .25, it appears to not have the juice to achieve a usable velocity. I suspect the plenum size is too small to allow for heavy slugs. I’m guessing that the plenum is in the 50cc range.

Regardless of how good the valve is, without sufficient plenum volume on deck, it won’t be a magnum slug gun.

 

[JoePolanco]

I'm not a slug shooter, however the same plenum is capable of shooting 80 grain pellets in it's .357 configuration at 890fps so.....

 

[Scotchmo]

I'm not a slug shooter, however the same plenum is capable of shooting 80 grain pellets in it's .357 configuration at 890fps so.....

The Skout can shoot pellets and “light” slugs at decent velocities.

In .357 caliber, 80gr would be considered a “light” slug. 80gr at 890 fps is 141 fpe.

If I were to shoot the 66gr .25 Altaros, I’d be OK with 141 fpe. But the Skout can’t do that. I suspect that if it had a larger plenum, it could do it. Though it would need a liner with a faster twist rate in order to adequately stabilize that slug.

The highest velocity I saw with the .25 Skout shooting the 66gr Altaros was 790 fps (91 fpe) with the reg and dwell maxed out. And velocity was erratic.

 

[Scotty1]

The Skout can shoot pellets and “light” slugs at decent velocities.

In .357 caliber, 80gr would be considered a “light” slug. 80gr at 890 fps is 141 fpe.

If I were to shoot the 66gr .25 Altaros, I’d be OK with 141 fpe. But the Skout can’t do that. I suspect that if it had a larger plenum, it could do it. Though it would need a liner with a faster twist rate in order to adequately stabilize that slug.

The highest velocity I saw with the .25 Skout shooting the 66gr Altaros was 790 fps (91 fpe) with the reg and dwell maxed out. And velocity was erratic.

Have you checked out Song V’s video’s, he’s been pushing his Skout pretty hard.

 

[Centercut]

The Skout can shoot pellets and “light” slugs at decent velocities.

In .357 caliber, 80gr would be considered a “light” slug. 80gr at 890 fps is 141 fpe.

If I were to shoot the 66gr .25 Altaros, I’d be OK with 141 fpe. But the Skout can’t do that. I suspect that if it had a larger plenum, it could do it. Though it would need a liner with a faster twist rate in order to adequately stabilize that slug.

The highest velocity I saw with the .25 Skout shooting the 66gr Altaros was 790 fps (91 fpe) with the reg and dwell maxed out. And velocity was erratic.

Altaros does make a 60 grain "Queen" that they recommend over the "King". Same BC, lighter slug. Also try the 49.5 grain Smooth, which has a G1 BC of 0.21 at around 880 to 900 fps.

 

[Scotchmo]

Altaros does make a 60 grain "Queen" that they recommend over the "King". Same BC, lighter slug. Also try the 49.5 grain Smooth, which has a G1 BC of 0.21 at around 880 to 900 fps.

The King test was to explore a particular application - ability to use the Skout in the Magnum Slug Challenge. And 141 fpe would qualify. I will likely try the Queens and Smooths later, but that would be for different applications that don’t require “Magnum” status, such as PRS slug matches.

 

[Scotty1]

I ordered a .30 Skout as a pellet shooter. It should be here soon

Since the .25 Skout magazine holds the Altaros King slugs perfectly, I wanted to look into the possibility of shooting those slugs, but after some testing with the dealer’s Skout .25, it appears to not have the juice to achieve a usable velocity. I suspect the plenum size is too small to allow for heavy slugs. I’m guessing that the plenum is in the 50cc range.

Regardless of how good the valve is, without sufficient plenum volume on deck, it won’t be a magnum slug gun.

Was that with the long barrel? The extra foot makes a difference as you well know.

 

[Scotchmo]

Was that with the long barrel? The extra foot makes a difference as you well know.

.25 caliber, 35” barrel. HP reg maxed out, though the HP gauge read only about 2200psi and bottle was at 3000psi. LP gauge at about 200psi. Tried up to 50ms dwell.

 

[DanT55]

After the changes I am now just over 100 on the LPR with the HPR at about 1500 psi to achieve 900FPS shooting JSB 44.75s. ES is now 20 and SD is about 4.

In my .25 I made the mistake of going higher on the LP (130 to 160) in relation to the HP (1400 to 1500) and could not get the results I was looking for. I followed your lead and dropped the LP down to about 105 and the LP to 1400 with a dwell of 23 and easily hit 890 with 33gr JTS's out of the standard length barrel. Spread tightened up and the shot sounds much better now, quick and sharp. I also heard Bill mention in one of his trade show videos you need just enough LP to open the valve and the magic happens. The learning continues but getting it sorted out.