In your experience what causes more damage in tissue, JSB Hades or slugs?

[gendoc]

Never seen anything hit like a griffin ldc slug. I never tried the fx hybrids, I expect they'd be very similar.

Typically use 22 cal. I've hunted plenty with hades at 960fps. Not very impressive expansion or damage in my experience. The ldc slugs hit like they're exploding inside the target. Even at 50fpe in 22 if I hit a grey squirrel in the chest, at close range, I do not get a pass through. That's something else entirely. that's 25gr at 950fps. I'm pretty sure I'd get a pass thru with normal pellets at 20fpe. That and the slugs are extremely accurate. Flight time is much shorter, trajectory is much flatter. Shooting pellets at range comparatively you feel like you can look over at a clock and start counting seconds till impact.

That all said, I still tend to use pellets most of the time because it is not often I take these long shots. And most of my time is spent plinking with pellets, so my favorite rifle is typically sighted in and dialed in for pellets. I don't even bother with the hades. Either 16gr or 18gr Diabolos to the dome do the job just fine.

from my mk2 crown compact, the fx hybrids do wonders for critters @ 890fps
and so does the 18.1 jsb @ 925.
i use both without any question of which does better. the 18.1 is most accurate out to
35yrds which is my sight in range, but the hybrid reaches out a little further.
as far as the "JTS" pellet......i sold and gave away all i had !!

 

[qball]

From my limited hunting experience NSA slugs are night and day more effective, not even in the same zip code.

 

[EdinGa]

My Staedtler pencils say JSB Knockout 10.3s are pure lead.

 

[starlingassn]

Never seen anything hit like a griffin ldc slug. I never tried the fx hybrids, I expect they'd be very similar.

Typically use 22 cal. I've hunted plenty with hades at 960fps. Not very impressive expansion or damage in my experience. The ldc slugs hit like they're exploding inside the target. Even at 50fpe in 22 if I hit a grey squirrel in the chest, at close range, I do not get a pass through. That's something else entirely. that's 25gr at 950fps. I'm pretty sure I'd get a pass thru with normal pellets at 20fpe. That and the slugs are extremely accurate. Flight time is much shorter, trajectory is much flatter. Shooting pellets at range comparatively you feel like you can look over at a clock and start counting seconds till impact.

That all said, I still tend to use pellets most of the time because it is not often I take these long shots. And most of my time is spent plinking with pellets, so my favorite rifle is typically sighted in and dialed in for pellets. I don't even bother with the hades. Either 16gr or 18gr Diabolos to the dome do the job just fine.

agreed about the griffin ldc slugs!!!!!

kinda pricey,
but if your gun likes them its like shooting little grenades instead of pellets lol


the only other slugs ive had make that much noise on impact,
were the old rat sniper wicked monster slugs.

man i miss those.

 

[Vetmx]

I shoot black walnuts in the tree and on the ground. A hades pellet in 22 will put a hole through one. A javelin slug will make it explode. All i needed to know for what to use for varmints.

If your varmints are as hard as a walnut then yes.

 

[Vetmx]

If you are going to compare then you have to make it fair. First is the distance. Second is the speed. Third is the shape. Fourth is the weight. I can give you two examples and both are on gray squirrels. Two .25’s, the pellet shooter shooting a HP 27 grain at 930. The second .25 shooting a 26 grain slug at 935. Zero difference in devastation to a squirrel. Two .22’s, the pellet shooter shooting a 16 grain Polymag at 935. The second .22 shooting a 21 grain slug at 940. Very slight difference but only due to projectile weight. Both plant squirrel shot in the boiler room pretty much the same. Bring in the .25 shooting a 32 grain slug at 1,050 fps, now we have a substantial difference in damage done. But that’s not fair. Bottom line is if you can get a HP, Polymag, or hunter style pellet hauling ass and accurate out to your maximum effective range, they are as devastating as a slug or more so. And much safer and less frustrating.

 

[delooper]

It's a bit of an odd question, comparing one specific pellet type to the entire range of slugs. Like asking who was prettier in their prime, Penny Baker or the totality of Victoria's Secret models.

 

[Scotay42]

If your varmints are as hard as a walnut then yes.

Have you used javelin slugs? No passthrus on any varmints i have shot, nsa slugs are hard and go straight thru.

 

[Vetmx]

Have you used javelin slugs? No passthrus on any varmints i have shot, nsa slugs are hard and go straight thru.

I have a pile of them. But the accuracy always gets edged out by a better shooting slug so no, I’ve never shot an animal with them. I feel the same as you about NSA. Good clean shooting paper punching slugs, they just don’t do damage. They are the Crosman pellet of the slug world. It’s an interesting conundrum with slugs. In some cases if you want to make consistent hits way out past pellet range, you might have to use a slug that isn’t a grenade. Which is why I understand if guys choose NSA. I’m just not one of them. Accuracy always trumps ballistic and terminal performance when underpowered.

 

[Scotay42]

I have a pile of them. But the accuracy always gets edged out by a better shooting slug so no, I’ve never shot an animal with them. I feel the same as you about NSA. Good clean shooting paper punching slugs, they just don’t do damage. They are the Crosman pellet of the slug world. It’s an interesting conundrum with slugs. In some cases if you want to make consistent hits way out past pellet range, you might have to use a slug that isn’t a grenade. Which is why I understand if guys choose NSA. I’m just not one of them. Accuracy always trumps ballistic and terminal performance when underpowered.

100yds is as far as i have at the house, but i get moa from my katran and also the 2 other rifles i have shot them through or better as long as i control my breathing.

 

[Vetmx]

If my guns liked them that much, I would use them too. I always test them because I would like to use them, but I just haven’t found the magic combo for them yet.

 

[HogKiller]

Like all science, there are a lot of factors to work out. The short answer is to have a projectile that will deliver all of its energy into the subject. If you have an equal weight projectile, and one goes through and the other stays in the body, traveling the same speed at impact, the one that stayed in delivers more energy into the body and should be more devastating. And I say this because we are generally speaking below the speed of sound, would path in PB rifle is its own animal.
I have found hollow point slugs that do not open, and exit, they are not delivering their potential.

My background with wound path is in forensics and I read about everything Force Science puts out. I am currently gaining a certification from them. Unfortunately, most of my real life investigations are on humans.

From my limited testing the FX Hybrid on small game is one of the highest transfers of energy. Just watch a slow motion of the energy dump, and you will be impressed.

Shooter 1721 did an interesting test with FX/RMR (they make them for FX) slugs, massive energy dump and all ranges and pass through. My experience is on Ground Squirrels, tiny entry and no exit. Now I'm not into slicing up dead squirrels so I can't tell you the internal damage but with a good hit, they go down, and frankly much like my JSB's

 

[Florida_Man]

Shooter 1721 did an interesting test with FX/RMR (they make them for FX) slugs, massive energy dump and all ranges and pass through. My experience is on Ground Squirrels, tiny entry and no exit. Now I'm not into slicing up dead squirrels so I can't tell you the internal damage but with a good hit, they go down, and frankly much like my JSB's

Yeah, I shot squirrels with them. I would get pass through, or not, same POI’s. I had high FPS camera and when they did exit they were flat and not much energy still in them. They would hit the wood fence behind and just fall to the ground, hardly left a mark in the wood.

 

[OldSpook]

Energy doesn't kill. Tissue damage does. Hydrostatic shock is the only close example of energy dump killing an animal. In the end it's still only tissue damage caused by a shock wave. Unfortunately hydrostatic shock is only possible at velocities that are usually only attainable by centerfire rifles.

A projectile that destroys vital organs will kill. Whether it passes through the entire animal or not is irrelevant. Only adequate penetration is necessary anything more is not detrimental. Energy doesn't kill. Tissue damage does and it has to be the right tissue too.

View attachment 390705

View attachment 390706

You take a solid hit from that linebacker and get back to me.

 

[davelarson]

Forgive the gore, but here’s a good example of what slugs do.
This chipmunk took a hit from a 13.43 grain .177 Knockout slug at 1020 fps at 40 yards.
I haven’t shot the Hades pellets at that speed so I can’t compare, but the wound channel from the slug is pretty devastating.
The entry is a tiny hole and the slug blew out the insides of the chipmunk.
The pictures of the mushroomed slugs are of slugs shot into wet paper and recovered, they are .22 and .177 knockout slugs.
I’m very impressed with slugs, I was resistant to them at first until I got the RedWolf and saw how accurate they are and how much damage they do.

 

[Chukar60]

Pellets kill critters fine. If you like them don’t change to slugs.
Slugs kill critters fine.
There is only one degree of dead.
For my money, when I am hunting I mainly shoot slugs. The terminal performance is considerably better than a pellet, but they don’t kill animals any more dead than pellets when both are placed correctly.
I shoot slugs because sometimes I make marginal hits and the increased terminal performance can be the difference between a dead pest or a wounded animal.

 

[Perle]

.25 wadcutters lay down some smack too. View attachment 390736

Who makes these?

 

[EdinGa]

There isn't a commercial version at this time. I cast them from pure lead.

250-22-WC-CD1 4 Cavity HB | NOE Bullet Moulds

noebulletmolds.com

 

[Vana2]

Been using the Hades for pesting for a couple of yeas now. No complaints, they expand well and retain their weight. Depending in angle of hit (broad side or diagonally) whether I get pass-thru or not so I'm guessing that little of the energy (30 fpe) is wasted. Tissue damage in exit holes is substantially greater than domed pellets.

Won't compare to my slug guns as they shoot at almost double the power. A totally different game.

In my experience, the accuracy between the JSB Hades and domed pellets is the same (excellent).


Edit:
Relevant info - "Accuracy" is 1/4 to 3/8 inch 5-shot groups from a .22/500mm Crown MK2 at 40 yards.

 

[subscriber]

Damaging vital tissue sufficiently is what kills. Not energy dump. Sure, shoot a small animal with an energetic soft point and a lot of vital tissue is destroyed. If you are shooting something larger than a rat, then you need to hit specific organs. Before you can damage vital tissue, you need to reach it via sufficiently deep penetration.

Penetration and energy don't correlate in a linear fashion; depending on the mass and speed of your projectile. It also depends on if you are shooting flesh, sand, bone or wood. This little video uses an arrow to make that point: