Impact m3 leak

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bconlon

Member
Jul 22, 2020
76
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PA, United States
After receiving my new m3 I filled the gun and let it sit over night only to find it wasn't holding air. I then started testing for leaks and found one immediately coming from the first regulator but flipping around the o rings and adding a little silicon grease solved this issue. When I reassembled the gun I then noticed another leak coming from the screw hole in the image attached. My question is does anyone know where this leak is coming from I have tried replacing the o ring for the filler port as well as the ones for both manometers but that did not help my problem and the schematic on fx's website does show what would intersect with this screw hole internally in the gun. Thanks in advance.

Brandon

20210517_204252.1621299787.jpg

 
That hole is just for the screw that holds the bottom rail. It doesnt go through into the air bottle. So no way air is coming from that hole. I think air is coming from the fill nipple and you think it was that hole. You can empty the air. Take off the fill nipple. Clean it and reinstall it. I have many fill nippple that leak over time cause dirt and debris get into it.
 
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MikeW and B hit the nail on the head I called fx usa for support today and apparently that is a major issue they have been seeing where that hole is drilled too far in the machining process and intersect in the block with where the first regulator screws into. They told me they have been fixing this just with some super glue I tried this and my threads stripped due to the overall poor quality of the machining on the threads. I will be contacting them tomorrow to see if I can get my block replaced with one that does not have these issue but it certainly doesn't instill confidence when dropping 2300 on this gun for me. Not to mention it gets you wondering how many other tolerances issues have been swept under the rug in this first round of guns.


Brandon
 
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Well, this makes me feel just great, as I was the one who sold Brandon this gun. Not because of any issues I had with it, but because it was too much a duplicate to my March 2021 purchased MkII .22 cal.

And FX says to FX it with super glue?????

Now I just had to air up my .25 cal M3 to 200 bar, and have to see what happens to that gun sitting overnight. Not something I am in the habit of doing.

Super glue?????
 
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The more I think about this and stew, the more it is bothering me.

This block is produced using an automated, CNC 'controlled' process. And maybe I know just enough about CNC machining to be dangerous. So what could have caused this hole to be drilled too deeply into the block?

1) Bad fixture - maybe held the block too high so the hole ended up too deep? But it is likely that multiple milling/drilling processes are performed on the block once it is put into the fixture, so multiple dimensions would be off.

2) Poor training, where the block is not placed correctly into the fixture (not seated all the way into the fixture) - but this too would seem to result in multiple incorrect dimensions when the cutting and drilling was complete.

3) Bad program - but one would think that this defect would then be present in ALL of the M3 blocks produced until FX caught the error.

Once again, I am not anything like an experienced machinist nor do I have significant experience with automated, CNC machining. Maybe someone who does have this knowledge can chime in? If FX has already said that this is a 'major issue', how could it 'Impact' some guns, but not all?
 
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The more I think about this and stew, the more it is bothering me.

This block is produced using an automated, CNC 'controlled' process. And maybe I know just enough about CNC machining to be dangerous. So what could have caused this hole to be drilled too deeply into the block?

1) Bad fixture - maybe held the block too high so the hole ended up too deep? But it is likely that multiple milling/drilling processes are performed on the block once it is put into the fixture, so multiple dimensions would be off.

2) Poor training, where the block is not placed correctly into the fixture (not seated all the way into the fixture) - but this too would seem to result in multiple incorrect dimensions when the cutting and drilling was complete.

3) Bad program - but one would think that this defect would then be present in ALL of the M3 blocks produced until FX caught the error.

Once again, I am not anything like an experienced machinist nor do I have significant experience with automated, CNC machining. Maybe someone who does have this knowledge can chime in? If FX has already said that this is a 'major issue', how could it 'Impact' some guns, but not all?
Click to expand...

I can tell you what this is from experience. I setup 10 5axis mills per day. The workload has been overwhelming and Im making mistakes. And I never do. Ever. Im seeing brand new parts being pushed through with no QA, first article inspection or anything. Its as simple as the machinist are being pushed and stretched too thin and making mistakes. This is the classic “ do you want it right, or right now”. Trust me, dont be mad at the machinists, be mad at managment pushing them too hard. I work with guys running 7 machines. Its impossible to not make mistakes doing that. Id be willing to bet thats happening at Fx, and many other manufacturers! Anyhow, sorry to hear about your new gun that really sucks!!!! Hopefully they straighten things out.
 
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Oops sorry TMH I forgot to even answer your question lol. So if the program was created from a solid model, which Im sure it was, and the drill depth on it is wrong, you are correct. More than likely their all bad since its aluminum and I doubt anyone needed to change tools. If the model was correct, then lets say the night shift guy comes in and measures the depth wrong. Could of been chips in the hole? So he drops the offset of the drill. Theres a ton of reasons. My bet the model is wrong and never got caught. 
 
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vmaxpro - Thank you for contributing your insight, from a position of experience and actual knowledge.

I am also thinking there could be one other contributing factor. It is pretty apparent, even to a non-engineer such as myself, that there was very little room in the block to install reg #1. I guess that this could also be a case where such tight design tolerances are required, that if the machining is not done perfectly then the issues (hole too deep/impinges into a pressurized chamber) occur.

And with a workforce which is too busy, and perhaps with new staff being brought in to help increase production volume, the machining perfection required due to the tight design is not being consistently accomplished.

I have removed the trigger guard from my remaining M3, pressurized to 200 bar, and checked the holes for any leakage (CRC Aerosol Leak Detector). No evidence of leakage even with the bolts removed. Now to see what the bottle pressure looks like tomorrow morning.
 
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Wow that's crazy! I wonder how many are affected out of the ones made. I would expect nothing less than a block replacement. Just from a safety aspect. I'm not sure the margin of error in the process but hoping it's not so close that just barely being off caused this. I just can't believe super glue was suggested.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's not good.
 
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For anyone that wants to check to see if their gun is also affected by this issue I would test to see if the gun holds air after removing the grub screws at the bottom of these two holes. You can't see the grub screws but they can be removed with a 1.5mm Allen wrench unless of course they have super glued yours into the bottom of the hole in which case its up to you whether or not you want to contact fx usa for a block replacement because this surely means they saw the issue in yours and glued the screws in place in an attempt to prevent the leak.

Brandon
 
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Yes exactly the the small grub screws are located under where the screws in this diagram marked 76 screw into. I was surprised by this as well seeing as it wasn't marked on the diagram. I'm wondering if they were placed there to "fix" this exact problem when they noticed the hole depth was incorrect. Also just fyi for everyone fx usa has said they would replace the block free of charge and even pay for shipping the gun to them so that is good at least they are even expediting the block from Sweden so I'm hoping I will be back up and running much quicker then the 6 weeks they said it usually takes to get parts from Sweden with non expedited orders.

Brandon
 
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