I keep hearing about 300 bar bottles for the M3. What's the deal? All CF bottles from FX have been rated for 310 bar, even the ones on the M3 that I can see. It's it just a different valve? I know there is a difference between MKII and M3 bottles, but that's a simple part upgrade.
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Impact M3 300 bar CF bottles.
- Thread starter DShepard
- Start date
You have to look at the bottle labels carefully, PW (pressure working) is the actual max working (fill) pressure of the bottle, usually rated at 15 degrees celsius (59F)
PSmax is the pressure the bottle will safely handle if it was filled to the max working pressure (PW) at 15C and then heated to the maximum rated service temp (usually 60-65C) since the air will expand and pressure will rise. This is the safety margin built into the bottle to handle temperature transients within the service temperature range ("TS" on the label.)
The 250 bar bottles may say PSmax 310 bar, but the PW250 line at the top means "pressure working" 250 bar.
The 300 bar bottles are rated for PSmax 382 bar and PW300 for 300 bar working pressure.
250 bar bottle label:
300 bar bottle label:
The 300 bar valves are also fully threaded, while the 250 bar valves are only threaded for about 1/2 their length.
Do not simply put a 300 bar fully threaded valve on a 250 bar (PW250) bottle and start filling it to 300 bar. While the 250 bar bottles will technically hold 300 bar and be safe as they're rated to 310bar PSmax at the upper end of the 60-65C max service temp, doing so doesn't leave any safety margin if you fill the bottle to 300 bar in the house at room temp and then take it to a hotter location, say going outside and leaving it in the sun or in a hot parked car. The temperature and pressure will climb and quickly exceed the maximum rated pressure. Granted there's probably quite a bit of safety margin in that PSmax rating, but I wouldn't recommend tempting fate by repeatedly filling beyond the rated working pressure / PW. A failed pressure vessel at these kinds of working pressures isn't something you want to experience...
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You have to look at the bottle labels carefully, PW (pressure working) is the actual max working (fill) pressure of the bottle, usually rated at 15 degrees celsius (59F)
PSmax is the pressure the bottle will safely handle if it was filled to the max working pressure (PW) at 15C and then heated to the maximum rated service temp (usually 60-65C) since the air will expand and pressure will rise. This is the safety margin built into the bottle to handle temperature transients within the service temperature range ("TS" on the label.)
The 250 bar bottles may say PSmax 310 bar, but the PW250 line at the top means "pressure working" 250 bar.
The 300 bar bottles are rated for PSmax 382 bar and PW300 for 300 bar working pressure.
250 bar bottle label:
300 bar bottle label:
The 300 bar valves are also fully threaded, while the 250 bar valves are only threaded for about 1/2 their length.
Do not simply put a 300 bar fully threaded valve on a 250 bar (PW250) bottle and start filling it to 300 bar. While the 250 bar bottles will technically hold 300 bar and be safe as they're rated to 310bar PSmax at the upper end of the 60-65C max service temp, doing so doesn't leave any safety margin if you fill the bottle to 300 bar in the house at room temp and then take it to a hotter location, say going outside and leaving it in the sun or in a hot parked car. The temperature and pressure will climb and quickly exceed the maximum rated pressure. Granted there's probably quite a bit of safety margin in that PSmax rating, but I wouldn't recommend tempting fate by repeatedly filling beyond the rated working pressure / PW. A failed pressure vessel at these kinds of working pressures isn't something you want to experience...
Thank you for this detailed explanation. My late June M3 came with a 250 bar bottle.
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As I knew, some dealer sell their 300 bar bottle with old version(250 bar) valve for quite long time. There were some issue reports. The new design 300 bar valve is not only upgrade to the full length thread, it also has internal upgrade like low tolerance pin hole to prevent leaking. FX continuly improve its design. I have three different 300 bar bottle valves now.
First one that came with M3 compact(May) is silver color. It's stainless steel material with pin sleeve.
Second one came with M3 sniper(August) is black color. It's a backward step to the previous material(blue steel), also with pin sleeve.
Third one was from FX for warranty. It's same as the second one, but with a much thicker pin(no pin sleeve).
Stainless steel with pin sleeve
Blue steel with pin sleeve
Blue steel with thicker pin
First one that came with M3 compact(May) is silver color. It's stainless steel material with pin sleeve.
Second one came with M3 sniper(August) is black color. It's a backward step to the previous material(blue steel), also with pin sleeve.
Third one was from FX for warranty. It's same as the second one, but with a much thicker pin(no pin sleeve).
Stainless steel with pin sleeve
Blue steel with pin sleeve
Blue steel with thicker pin
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@jerrymail, and everyone going to purchase the 300bar 580cc bottle. I purchased one from TopGun Airguns and this is what I received.
I had the bottle on my Maverick and when I went to do a new tune the bonded washer on the Maverick blew out and all the air rushed out. I purchased two 580cc bottles, from different vendors, and the other was the silver full thread adapter. I ended up buying another bottle adapter from Talon Tunes, Tony and it was perfect.
Make sure you ask who ever you purchase from which bottle valve adapter they are using. Talon Tunes, from my personal experience, is selling the correct carbon fiber 580cc 300 bar bottles with the correct adapter. I installed the new one from Tony and have had zero issues on my Maverick or my M3 Impact.
I did call and let TopGun know of the issue and was told they know about the issue and have had others with the same type of problem; they are waiting for the new adapters as I was just told today.
I had the bottle on my Maverick and when I went to do a new tune the bonded washer on the Maverick blew out and all the air rushed out. I purchased two 580cc bottles, from different vendors, and the other was the silver full thread adapter. I ended up buying another bottle adapter from Talon Tunes, Tony and it was perfect.
Make sure you ask who ever you purchase from which bottle valve adapter they are using. Talon Tunes, from my personal experience, is selling the correct carbon fiber 580cc 300 bar bottles with the correct adapter. I installed the new one from Tony and have had zero issues on my Maverick or my M3 Impact.
I did call and let TopGun know of the issue and was told they know about the issue and have had others with the same type of problem; they are waiting for the new adapters as I was just told today.
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Thanks for the explanations. I mistook the Max 310 bar to mean working pressure. I hope FX will be offering the 300bar bottles as standard, rather than buying a 250, then having to get the 300 after.
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I would only see FX doing that on the rifles with dual regulators. The dual reg system can use the first reg to knock down that 300 bar so it's not slamming the second regulator with that high pressure.
I have the 300 bar bottles on the M3 .35 and my .30 Maverick. With the heavier projectiles the extra 50 bar is appreciated when out shooting giving me more shots for higher power tunes...
I have the 300 bar bottles on the M3 .35 and my .30 Maverick. With the heavier projectiles the extra 50 bar is appreciated when out shooting giving me more shots for higher power tunes...
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@jerrymail, and everyone going to purchase the 300bar 580cc bottle. I purchased one from TopGun Airguns and this is what I received.
I had the bottle on my Maverick and when I went to do a new tune the bonded washer on the Maverick blew out and all the air rushed out. I purchased two 580cc bottles, from different vendors, and the other was the silver full thread adapter. I ended up buying another bottle adapter from Talon Tunes, Tony and it was perfect.
Make sure you ask who ever you purchase from which bottle valve adapter they are using. Talon Tunes, from my personal experience, is selling the correct carbon fiber 580cc 300 bar bottles with the correct adapter. I installed the new one from Tony and have had zero issues on my Maverick or my M3 Impact.
I did call and let TopGun know of the issue and was told they know about the issue and have had others with the same type of problem; they are waiting for the new adapters as I was just told today.
It looks like an fx aluminum bottle valve with thicker edge. Maybe they ran out the regular bottle valves. I actually visited there several times then I asked FX for safety concern. FX knew it and I got a answer that dealer took full responsibility for what valve they used.
There is a rumor FX will offer 300 bar 300 cc bottle first. The extra 50 bar will allow me to stop using 480/580 bottle on M3 compact.
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Thanks for posting the pictures. It makes it very clear. I have just bought a 300cc best fittings bottle which has a WP of 300 BAR. I bought a new valve body, which is the fully threaded , stainless 300 BAR type, so it looks like I've got the higher pressure setup...........I'll probably not fill it to that, but handy to know.
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