I'm not impressed with 1 inch groups at 100 yards

[Jammin22]

If I had an air rifle that could produce 1" groups consecutively I would be very happy. But, like everyone said to many variables to consider, that is why we love this sport. I have shot some outstanding groups with different Airguns @ 100yds. But hardly ever could I repeat it time and time again because everything has to be perfect. I strive on long shots ask my friends. I am always trying to be better but reality slaps me in the face. Now, when shooting at prey at that distance I am not expecting to hit it in the head, but expecting for a kill otherwise why am I taking the shot. My longest kill at a pigeon was 167yds with an A.Z. Tuned Rapid .22cal. This rifle was extremely accurate. I also have owned a A.Z tuned Rapid .25cal. I could hit a 1" spinner target 9 out 10 times at 110yds. Rapids/Raws are very accurate rifles. I did take a crow at 102yds with my power tuned Cricket.25, hit it in the neck- Luck. My Cricket produces some outstanding groups from time to time. 

Now, with slugs coming into play you might see better and more often great 100yd groups. 

Here's an outstanding 3 shot group that I shot with an Edgun RM3 .22 @ 100yds. Could I do it again- nope. 

 

[Swish]

With all do respect if 1"at 100 yards doesn't impress you it's probably because you haven't pulled it off yet. I've done many 8 shot groups under 1" at 110 yards with my FX Wildcat MK1 .25.

It usually involves shooting at night to beat the wind and lots of practice learning what the gun likes, ammo, lube, and hold. I don't think the average shooter can simply grab the best gun out there and instantly shoot sub MOA at 100 because of the gun.

I've been able to make some incredible groups under 8 shots but set 8 as my standard. (Full Wildcat mag) So I've blown out some killer 5 shot groups that were pretty small.

 

[jps2486]

Marketing Marketing Marketing.

Seems the Dreamline will do 1" @ 100 yds for half the price. Tiapan does it for about $900 less and doesn't need a 14' barrel to create power. 

Compare $1000 guns to $2000+ guns and the performance doesn't seem to match the price increase.

+1

 

[MScottLeeman]

With all due respect,I think you are getting Way to wrapped up in numbers and absolutes. If a Top of the line air rifles' potential performance bores you,maybe this sport isn't your best option.

There are a Lot of folks out there that confuse the limits of their equipments performance with that of their Own.

Best of luck in Your endeavors,

Mike

 

[mtnGhost]

There are very few PEOPLE who can CONSISTENTLY shoot one inch groups at 100 yards.

There are few DAYS when conditions are ideal to allow such shooting 

Shooting ONE one hole group goes not make a one hole shooting gun

There are some bench rest specific guns and shooters who can do this but air rifles I’ll believe that when it’s proven to me.

Wow...so I should be going for 1 inch groups at 100 yards and be happy if I can do that. I do realize I have to learn windage and all that complicated stuff. Ted won EBR by calculating a 9 mile an hour cross wind (and nailing it!), when everyone else stopped shooting. I wouldn't even know where to start to figure out something like that. I look forward to being able to learn that stuff when I'm able to shoot more next year. Thanks for the great insight! -Nate

Yeah, but when you do guess the wind right and see the target splatter right where you intended it to, it's bliss!

 

[boscoebrea]

OK, I would be happy with 1"groups at 100yds,I have done it with my .22 Anchutz,I expect to..and with some other target.22 rimfires.So I would love to be able to do that with a pellet rifle.

I remember telling a center fire guy about my 100yd group,he turned up his nose and said there must have been no wind,point being that conditions must be right to do 1" 100yd groups with most any rifle.

Here is the thing ,first shoot 1/2" 50 yd groups ,or better yet 1/4" then you should be able to do 1"100 yd. groups.

I really think you are like a guy I know,sometimes me!,you think by getting something really great it will make you great.....think guitar players and why so many guitars just sit....yea the guitar does not play itself and to be good takes practice,PRACTICE....Takes time...

Where is the closest shooting range from you?I Iive in Vallejo so Concord is the closest to me.

 

[Motorhead]

Insert some chuckle here .... The web and all the stories of glory of what some folks and there air guns can do is for many read as some sort of gospel facts.

If your shooting ANY variant of a diablo shaped PELLET, 100 yards is WAY THE HECK OUT THERE !!! and if you can stick shot after shot inside 1moa at 100 yards +/- then you have done super well !!



In a FIELD hunting situation with iffy stability at best taking shots at eatable game is just foolish .... pesting sure & just for bragging rights being your likelihood to connect where aimed is fairly low.



JMO ... so don't shoot the messenger.



Scott

 

[HarryO]

Nate, I have watched you shoot in your review videos. You shoot very well! You buy that new rifle and find the right pellet and the right day with practice you will be posting minute of angle targets no doubt in my mind! Good luck with your move and Good Shooting!

Harry 

 

[thomasair]

Scott, what you have stated is actually 100% fact....not just opinion.

I don’t know anyone in the world that can consistently shoot MOA with a BR air rifle at 25m outdoors...because there isn’t anyone. If a guy could shoot MOA at 25m all the time he would be guaranteed a perfect score and a win at every 25m BR match worldwide. This is 25m, folks...25! There is nearly 8 times the wind drift at 100y.

As for Field Target..,a full KZ at 55y is nearly 3 MOA...but nobody in the world of FT can count on hitting every one. Nobody!

I once witnessed one of the internets finest long range pesting shooters (by his own accounts) shoot about 15% on a relatively easy FT course. Strangely, he could hit the heads of ground squirrels at 180y on command with ease and had plenty of video to prove it....but couldn’t seem to put a pellet through a 1.5” hole at 40y with any regularity.

I’m with you, Scott.

Mike

 

[bubblerboy64]

Shooting is a crapshoot sometimes. I was shooting yesterday at pest birds on a silo at about 40 yards. Pigeons starlings and sparrows. Over a period of hours. I felt I was well sighted in and had pretty good holds.

I was able to hit a sparrow pretty regularly and then I’d miss a pigeon . Go figure. I can’t necessarily blame the gun or me .

just saying it happens . Now if I hit everone I’d pretty quickly loose interest. 

Hunting is WAY different then shooting groups or so it is for me . 

 

[Silent_M]

Shooting pellets OR slugs at 1400 ft per second is going to cause all kinds of problems. Will some one be producing jacketed slugs?

What's the issue with slugs at 1400 fps?

 

[STO]

Shooting pellets OR slugs at 1400 ft per second is going to cause all kinds of problems. Will some one be producing jacketed slugs?

What's the issue with slugs at 1400 fps?

I obviously didn't write the comment, but two things spring to mind:

1) Leading. Given the reference to jackets, this seems the obvious track of bubblerboy64's mind. As you shoot bullets faster and faster they lead barrels up. This is why the higher velocity rimfire rounds are copper washed, to reduce barrel leading. 

2) Transonic flow. Believe it or not, the sound barrier is less hard wall and more "general region." As a result there is a nasty time in a bullet's life called the transonic region, where there is both supersonic and subsonic flow occurring simultaneously on different parts of the projectile. These two types of flow exert dramatically different pressures and have dramatically different effects, which is highly destabilizing. Even if you're shooting high power powder-burners, you generally want your bullets to stay supersonic from muzzle to target, because any time you have to pass through the transonic region your groups are necessarily going to open up. Basically, you don't want to be shooting in the transonic range if you don't have to, so the marginal performance gain you'd get by slinging slugs at 1400fps will easily be wiped out by the effects of this velocity/flow region, and so you'd be better off simply shooting a heavier slug. 





I hope that helps answer your question. 

 

[Crusher]

The biggest variable is the shooter. Just because you get a gun capable of 1" groups, doesn't mean you could ever DO it. There is a fair amount of skill involved in shooting that tight a group. And just like dancing, not everyone can do it.



Crusher

 

[Silent_M]

Shooting pellets OR slugs at 1400 ft per second is going to cause all kinds of problems. Will some one be producing jacketed slugs?

What's the issue with slugs at 1400 fps?

I obviously didn't write the comment, but two things spring to mind:

1) Leading. Given the reference to jackets, this seems the obvious track of bubblerboy64's mind. As you shoot bullets faster and faster they lead barrels up. This is why the higher velocity rimfire rounds are copper washed, to reduce barrel leading. 

2) Transonic flow. Believe it or not, the sound barrier is less hard wall and more "general region." As a result there is a nasty time in a bullet's life called the transonic region, where there is both supersonic and subsonic flow occurring simultaneously on different parts of the projectile. These two types of flow exert dramatically different pressures and have dramatically different effects, which is highly destabilizing. Even if you're shooting high power powder-burners, you generally want your bullets to stay supersonic from muzzle to target, because any time you have to pass through the transonic region your groups are necessarily going to open up. Basically, you don't want to be shooting in the transonic range if you don't have to, so the marginal performance gain you'd get by slinging slugs at 1400fps will easily be wiped out by the effects of this velocity/flow region, and so you'd be better off simply shooting a heavier slug. 





I hope that helps answer your question. 

I forgot about the transonic range, so yeah, it would be tough maintaining accuracy. It looks like 1300 fps is the cutoff between copper washing and just using their proprietary wax coating in .22 lr rounds. It would be interesting to plate some of the currently available slugs.

 

[addertooth]

I tend to focus on a "minute of critter" I normally don't shoot tiny stuff much past 50-60 yards (even though I am zeroed for 50 yards on my 0.25 caliber air rifle). But a minute of deer heart is about 4 inches. If I have a 3 inch circle with a big bore rifle at 100 yards (which I do with a 0.357 big bore), I would attempt to take a heart/lung on a deer. 

 

[ashes5]

IMO off the shelf guns have come a long ways as far as accuracy. My friend just purchased a Bergara HMR B14 300 win mag. He has 60 rounds through it factory ammo and this is the group of 4 he shot last week 300 yards and it is certified by the range. I think he has around 2000-2500 invested.

 

[AirNGasman]

Assuming you're talking about pellets, not slugs, any good .22 or larger caliber airgun producing around 30 foot-pounds or more should shoot 1" or better groups at 100 yards... considering many folks consider three shots a 'group', and present only their best 'groups' when bragging.

However, let me know when you find an airgun capable of AVERAGING 1" or less groups over at least five consecutive five-shot groups. That's my current airgun Holy Grail, and I have yet to find it.

But I've only tested hundreds of airguns over the last few decades.

 

[nomojo65]

WAIT... WHAT... WIND????

 

[Loren]

Most of the time it's not the arrow, but the indian. Skill is learned and earned, not purchased.

 

[bvan]

With all due respect,I think you are getting Way to wrapped up in numbers and absolutes. If a Top of the line air rifles' potential performance bores you,maybe this sport isn't your best option.

There are a Lot of folks out there that confuse the limits of their equipments performance with that of their Own.

Best of luck in Your endeavors,

Mike

+1

Couldnt have said it better myself Mike.