If you had the $, mechanical or electrical?

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JamesD.

JamesD.

Member
Dec 9, 2015
2,436
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NE PA, United States
I saw the EBR. Looked like the Red Sea parted by a yellow Bantam. I'd never ever spend that dough on a battery charged, that hard to work on rifle. To have to send it anywhere to have board adjusted. Mags alone are expensive. What happens if it gets wet? Out of 50+ guns including 2 AZ Rapids that I did love, I still say the best rifle for the money paid I ever owned is a Rainstorm (any caliber with any regulator put in and set up.

It's a two edged sword. Rainstorms, Diana 48's all have 17" barrels. Little time for you to pull shot if follow through is solid. In a PCP, a longer barrel gets more efficiency. In a spring gun, 10" is all that's needed, hence why the TX200 is still considered one of if not thee most likable accurate 16ftlb springer. That pellet is gone before you feel the recoil, literally. Our nerves only travel at 200mph. I talked with a guy that had a semi recoils TX and boy do I wish I'd grown up or known about them in my young days. Like reading how a new truck or car cost 4-10K. Inflation sucks and it happened with old vintage target 10M rifles also. Guys are seeing the engineering in those old dogs is better or as good as todays top notch; but the oldies looked good also, HA!
 
Seem to me you have to pick your choices. The Red Wolf is far and away the most advanced air rifle around today. One of its growing pains is the fact that it has to be sent out for further adjustments although as is, it does give you some leeway. Then you can spend the $400 or so bucks to buy the programmer and learn to use it. By the way, it is quite water resistant, the specs mention that.

The near future may bring an internal program that is wider in scope than the current one, competition will demand that if other companies go electronic.

Six months ago I was laughing at the Red Wolf as being a gimmick. Today I am about half way to seriously thinking about one.

My shooting doesn't demand the wide adjustability that some of the FX guns provide and one of the things I like about the Wolf is the very short "lock" time. The time it takes between trigger break and pellet motion. It is almost five times as fast as a mechanical gun and at 100 yards, a very small deflection between trigger break and pellet exit could translate to inches.

Now to add some more confusion to the mix. I too have a TX200 that I just finished some testing on. I have a variety of springs and a few Vortek set ups. I found the original factory spring combine with a Vortek guide and sleeve, gave me the most accuracy at 750 FPS. The crazy part is, on some days, the TX equals the accuracy of my Daystate Wolverine "R" and that translates to one raggy hole at 40 yards.

There is simply no bottom to the rabbit hole.
 
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It depends -

If I were shooting competitively, and the electronics gave me an advantage over mechanical systems, Electronic

If I were hunting, mechanical all the way. Mentally, emotionally, and just reliability wise, when I'm out away from people, simple is better. I still can't get over having to charge the battery to shoot. Plus, thinking long into the future, will that battery even be available in 10 or 15 years? What about circuit boards? Programming equipment? People that know how to work on it? To spend up to $3000 for the fanciest, Gen 1, electronic gun just doesn't tickle my fancy when in 10 years, there may be no one to work on it outside of the factory.

Mechanical parts, just about anyone can learn with a bit of doing, electronics takes a whole different infrastructure.
 
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I'll probably wait for the next generation, what I'd like to see is you dial on the gun itself the FPS you want to shoot with a particular pellet. Over 3 shots the gun does what it needs to do to find that FPS, either that or onboard power controls with the ability to tweak things within set parameters not just factory set 3 options. Until that I'll keep it mechanical.

For the 3500$ (up here price) they could have a built in chrony, a little sensor to measure when the shot was taken and another sensor in the shroud to measure when it leaves the barrel. If you're gonna go electric go all out not just halfway IMO
 
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Carburetor or Fuel Injection? Fuel Injection for me.

I have one of each, and I think as time moves on the electronics will just increase in tunability. At this point it's all about buying a programmer, but that will change soon enough. In a couple years, you will be able to input pellet weight, BC, and power you want and viola, instant fix.

Well that's what I'm hoping for, until then, I'll just have to get with someone to change the tune.

Smitty
 
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I'll probably wait for the next generation, what I'd like to see is you dial on the gun itself the FPS you want to shoot with a particular pellet. Over 3 shots the gun does what it needs to do to find that FPS, either that or onboard power controls with the ability to tweak things within set parameters not just factory set 3 options. Until that I'll keep it mechanical.

For the 3500$ (up here price) they could have a built in chrony, a little sensor to measure when the shot was taken and another sensor in the shroud to measure when it leaves the barrel. If you're gonna go electric go all out not just halfway IMO
Click to expand...

They had that in the MVT Airwolf 7years or so ago.

Unfortunately too many garage gunsmiths took it upon themselves to strip the gun, broke the chrony wires, then vehemently complained that the chrony was unreliable causing daystate to remove it from their lineup and concentrate on MCT instead. Not sure of the odds of it coming back for that reason... I do wish it would make a comeback though, as it really seems the future is in the past, the way things are now.

I had one and it was brilliant (and very reliable). Just input the velocity you want using the trigger type programming you see on the red wolf and fire three or four pellets to allow the feedback loop to set everything. you were then set until you next changed it. The gun was equal in accuracy to anything I've ever had including my red wolf, vulcan and crown and with far more pellets. Nearly anything would shoot reasonably well at the right velocity.

Tested the little chrony against several of the usual ones and it was always within 1 or 2 fps. 

Best gun I ever had and I'm a fool for selling it!
 
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I'll probably wait for the next generation, what I'd like to see is you dial on the gun itself the FPS you want to shoot with a particular pellet. Over 3 shots the gun does what it needs to do to find that FPS, either that or onboard power controls with the ability to tweak things within set parameters not just factory set 3 options. Until that I'll keep it mechanical.

For the 3500$ (up here price) they could have a built in chrony, a little sensor to measure when the shot was taken and another sensor in the shroud to measure when it leaves the barrel. If you're gonna go electric go all out not just halfway IMO
Click to expand...

They had that in the MVT Airwolf 7years or so ago.

Unfortunately too many garage gunsmiths took it upon themselves to strip the gun, broke the chrony wires, then vehemently complained that the chrony was unreliable causing daystate to remove it from their lineup and concentrate on MCT instead. Not sure of the odds of it coming back for that reason... I do wish it would make a comeback though, as it really seems the future is in the past, the way things are now.

I had one and it was brilliant (and very reliable). Just input the velocity you want using the trigger type programming you see on the red wolf and fire three or four pellets to allow the feedback loop to set everything. you were then set until you next changed it. The gun was equal in accuracy to anything I've ever had including my red wolf, vulcan and crown and with far more pellets. Nearly anything would shoot reasonably well at the right velocity.

Tested the little chrony against several of the usual ones and it was always within 1 or 2 fps. 

Best gun I ever had and I'm a fool for selling it!
Click to expand...


That's really cool I had no idea, maybe with todays technology they should give it another go.
 
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I like the fact that electronic options are available but I’m not such a big fan of being dependent on the manufacturer for repairs in terms of the electronics.
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You know, I sure did feel the same way about going from points and condenser ignitions to full electronics. There was a number of interim inventions between full circuitry and the points. Can't count the times my friend, who installed an LED set up in his distributor was FORD (as in Found On Road Dead) when something quit.

I feel the Red Wolf set up is mildly beyond that stage, but far from what it will be when competition or customer complaints get them to make changes.

This is Gen 1 Red Wolf and although they did quite well, it is still Gen 1 and improvements will come. Will they be able to be incorporated into Gen 1 or not and at what cost if they are, is the question?

I bought a Gen 2 Toyota Tacoma on Toyota's reputation in 2005, the first year out. It took another 2-3 years to iron out the subtle bugs, one of which, a weak head gasket, is a $3000 repair if it quits. That is a mistake I will not make again and one of the main things stopping me from the Red Wolf.

Look how far air guns have come in the last 3-5 years and think about what will be. Competition is a beautiful thing and it really shows itself at Extreme Bench Rest, the gold standard of air gunning. The more popular EBR becomes, the more the companies will have to take notice just to stay in the game.
 
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I'll probably wait for the next generation, what I'd like to see is you dial on the gun itself the FPS you want to shoot with a particular pellet. Over 3 shots the gun does what it needs to do to find that FPS, either that or onboard power controls with the ability to tweak things within set parameters not just factory set 3 options. Until that I'll keep it mechanical.

For the 3500$ (up here price) they could have a built in chrony, a little sensor to measure when the shot was taken and another sensor in the shroud to measure when it leaves the barrel. If you're gonna go electric go all out not just halfway IMO
Click to expand...

They had that in the MVT Airwolf 7years or so ago.

Unfortunately too many garage gunsmiths took it upon themselves to strip the gun, broke the chrony wires, then vehemently complained that the chrony was unreliable causing daystate to remove it from their lineup and concentrate on MCT instead. Not sure of the odds of it coming back for that reason... I do wish it would make a comeback though, as it really seems the future is in the past, the way things are now.

I had one and it was brilliant (and very reliable). Just input the velocity you want using the trigger type programming you see on the red wolf and fire three or four pellets to allow the feedback loop to set everything. you were then set until you next changed it. The gun was equal in accuracy to anything I've ever had including my red wolf, vulcan and crown and with far more pellets. Nearly anything would shoot reasonably well at the right velocity.

Tested the little chrony against several of the usual ones and it was always within 1 or 2 fps. 

Best gun I ever had and I'm a fool for selling it!
Click to expand...


That's really cool I had no idea, maybe with todays technology they should give it another go.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they really should.

Here are a couple of threads from my local forum(below). The fellow likes to wax lyrical a bit on that first thread, but is exceptionally knowledgeable about all the electronic daystates as you'll see on the second. Shows pics of the chronys and the readouts on the lcd amongst other things. Lol you'll see the date of the thread -2011. Proof the Red Wolf is far from first gen (it's internal name is mk5. Airwolf was mk4) at least.

I know a few guys with Airwolves from then - not one has broken or gone haywire in any way beyond the odd leak, which was easily fixed. Regarding the concern about the batteries not being available - these guns actually work just fine with any battery within their voltage range, and at one friend of mine has long since been using lithium ion batteries to run his Airwolf.

https://www.airrifle.co.za/threads/22721-AirWolf-MVT-FAC-by-Daystate-Review

https://www.airrifle.co.za/threads/18335-The-Daystate-electronic-air-rifles-de-mystified-Review



I very much like both my mechanical and electronic rifles. They all have their charms. I suppose I'm lucky I don't have to choose one or the other, but I think if push came to shove, it'd be the mechanical that went on sale. I think...
 
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I love my FX Crown and also prefer mechanical simplicity over all of the electronic stuff.

I don't have the money for a Red Wolf and don't like having to pay an extra $400 for a programmer either.

With that being said, the trigger on the Red Wolf is absolutely the sickest, lightest, most sensitive trigger I've ever felt...on any gun! It has to be shot to be truly appreciated!

I wouldn't say no if my beloved wife decided to buy a Red Wolf or Russo for me this Christmas! Like I said, I love my Crown and it's simplicity but the Daystate electronic guns are pushing the envelope on what's possible. They really are something pretty special. Before you can make any judgement or decision comparing mechanical or electronic you need to do two things... check your bank statement to make sure you can afford a Daystate and then go shoot one! You'll want one after you press that trigger!!!

Stoti
 
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The comments about the electronics and the battery and the programmer being outdated are kinda unfounded. You want parts that are proven and work right? You want a gun that can act up like your cell phone does every so often? Not me. You want a specialized battery that costs a bunch of money or a lipo you can get anywhere? Hmmm I will take the get anywhere for 10bucks thanks. Daystate is using proven and smart pieces to build an awesome gun. I have shot TX200s and own a RW HP cant compare the two at all. If you can shoot an E gun give it a try, I own 3 and no electrical issues for several years. 
 
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I guess I'd compare the electronic guns vs mechanical guns to cars.

In High School, I drove either a 67 (I think it was a 67) Volkswagon Notchback sedan or a 1972 ford Pinto. Today I drive a 97 GMC truck, wife drives a 2016 Subaru.

In High School, I didn't hesitate to do the simple repairs like setting the timing, idle speed, and such. For the GMC Truck, I'll tackle a couple repairs, but nothing too technical because even the 21 year old truck has sensors and computers.

The 2016 Subaru, don't even think of attempting a repair. Too many electronic gadgets and such, that I'd be afraid of frying something if I got a wire backwards. It goes straight to the shop and I pay the price.

Which is better? Depends on your take on tinkering.

My Impact is completely mechanical, so when I blew the regulator, I had enough confidence to get into it and do the repair (Thank you Ernest Rowe and the FX Master Class). No electronic meters, no programming, just O-Rings and aluminum. It took me a while, but I got it done. Had it been a Red Wolf, probably sent straight to the repair shop so the pro's could fix. Too much chance of making things worse if I get into it.

If you never want to really tinker by taking apart, go for it. If you want to buy the programming boards and such and customize it for your shooting - Go for it!

Yes, I am somewhat stuck in the past, but it works for me

I figure I'll still own the Impact in 10 or 15 years, so for me, Mechanical makes sense. I'll let early adopters work through any issues that might crop up, then maybe in 10 years or so, I'll take the plunge, maybe!
 
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