if I may interject an observation about springers and pcps is this

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boscoebrea

boscoebrea

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Oct 27, 2017
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I quality springer,which there are many can outshoot a pcp that costs about the same.
Yes ,I tested my theory yesterday,ok it is a generalization,never-the-less for me it holds true.
A $400-500 springer is more accurate that a $400-500 pcp...
I think why too many guys go with the pcp is because of the hype,or they may have a hard time cocking a springer,I see no other reasons.
A $500 pcp is just the start of the spending frenzy also. But Jesse a pcp is easier to shoot,you don't need as much skill; :eek:hold on Buster your going to get in trouble saying that:ROFLMAO:
 
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The best springers I have seen took a hell of a lot of work to get there and a hell of a lot more work to keep there than any PCP. And they do require a skill set that is not needed for shooting pcp rifles. Accuracy is relative, you could buy five of the same exact springers (or PCP) and one would shoot better than the others, has very little to do with the power plant (unless it is CO2) and more with the barrel.

It, however, is rare that a springer beats a pcp on the field target course.

Shooting a springer more like using a living/feeling/breathing machine, it depends on how you hold it, how hot or cold it is, how much humidity, altitude, etc, etc, etc, etc... God forbid it is raining during a match.

I spend a bit of time maintaining my pcp FT rigs, change o-rings, set the reg...but I don't have to rebuild the actual power plant each year and hope it stays good through each match weekend. THE best springer shooters are in a way craftsmen first, shooters second, or they know someone who can tune their rig.

What blows my mind about springers is the length of the barrel and the accuracy some folks get.

A PCP is far easier to shoot.
 
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beerthief said:
no idea what you mean by yearly upkeep on a Springer ? My HW 97 has been shooting .177 / 8.64 G pellets with 11.6 FPE and hasn't varied in over 6 years . i don't even clean the barrel every year .
Stan in KY
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I'm coming from the competition side of things, these are the things I have learned from some of the top springer shooters in the USA (and the World). YMMV

You don't "have" to do any upkeep on a PCP either, unless of course you shoot competitively, even then you can put it off but it will eventually bite you at the wrong time. I'm using competition information because it is a documented/measurable account of springer and pcp function, accuracy, usage, tuning, etc., over say, back yard plinking or hunting.
 
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While your statement about an equally priced springer ($400‐500) MIGHT outshoot a pcp in that price range, there's no way it can do it at the DISTANCES the value priced pcp can! Nor can it develop the power. I've yet to see a springer with a reliable magazine feed either. I've yet to have any of my guns "toast" a scope the way springers tend to do. Some of today's sub $500 pcp are light years ahead of where they were even 3 years ago. EACH gun has it's place. I prefer filling those places with pcp's. YMMV.
 
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Distance seems to be the deciding factor. Let’s move up to 10 meters. Can a pcp beat an ancient 10 meter springer? I don’t think so. I can shoot these targets all day long off the bench with my FWB 300 S
IMG_7074.jpeg
 
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boscoebrea said:
I quality springer,which there are many can outshoot a pcp that costs about the same.
Yes ,I tested my theory yesterday,ok it is a generalization,never-the-less for me it holds true.
A $400-500 springer is more accurate that a $400-500 pcp...
I think why too many guys go with the pcp is because of the hype,or they may have a hard time cocking a springer,I see no other reasons.
A $500 pcp is just the start of the spending frenzy also. But Jesse a pcp is easier to shoot,you don't need as much skill; :eek:hold on Buster your going to get in trouble saying that:ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
For me, I'm the weak link. My friend shoots a springer lights out because he grew up with a springer, i grew up with a pump. MY form is the problem, I'm the weak link, I can't shoot things well that move during the shot sequence (pb recoil movement is typically after the projectile has alrady left the bore "long ago") and hinged barrel springers have a weak link for what I'm trying to achieve with a scope not mounted to the barrel.

Another friend thought pcp and all the periphery was stupid and his big npxl177 was all he would ever need. I bought an impact and brought it over first day and learned it with him (he owns the shooting property) and he had a maverick on order that night and is now several PCPs in and the "cheap" Benji npxl has never seen the light of day again.

I still want a side or under leaver springer one day because I think that could bridge the gap in my preferences. Either 177 for wad cutters or a 20 cal if those even exist.

There is no "better" there is only airgun imho and that's good enough for me.
 
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JW. said:
The best springers I have seen took a hell of a lot of work to get there and a hell of a lot more work to keep there than any PCP. And they do require a skill set that is not needed for shooting pcp rifles. Accuracy is relative, you could buy five of the same exact springers (or PCP) and one would shoot better than the others, has very little to do with the power plant (unless it is CO2) and more with the barrel.

It, however, is rare that a springer beats a pcp on the field target course.

Shooting a springer more like using a living/feeling/breathing machine, it depends on how you hold it, how hot or cold it is, how much humidity, altitude, etc, etc, etc, etc... God forbid it is raining during a match.

I spend a bit of time maintaining my pcp FT rigs, change o-rings, set the reg...but I don't have to rebuild the actual power plant each year and hope it stays good through each match weekend. THE best springer shooters are in a way craftsmen first, shooters second, or they know someone who can tune their rig.

What blows my mind about springers is the length of the barrel and the accuracy some folks get.

A PCP is far easier to shoot.
Click to expand...
I have to ask if youve ever tuned an fx on a cool day and brought it out into serious heat? It's living, breathing, cranky and likely to make you wonder if you ever chrono'd, tuned or zeroed the rifle till you learn their personality 🤣 I love this topic because I'm a pump/pcp/co2 guy but only because I'm the problem with all the springers I've owned.
 
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Steve Milbocker said:
Distance seems to be the deciding factor. Let’s move up to 10 meters. Can a pcp beat an ancient 10 meter springer? I don’t think so. I can shoot these targets all day long off the bench with my FWB 300 SView attachment 566119
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I've seen a better 10 shot group at 55 yards from a pcp. A rifle that can shoot a very small group at 55 shoots an even smaller group at 15.
 
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Steve Milbocker said:
Distance seems to be the deciding factor. Let’s move up to 10 meters. Can a pcp beat an ancient 10 meter springer? I don’t think so. I can shoot these targets all day long off the bench with my FWB 300 SView attachment 566119
Click to expand...
15 yards, a year of fine tuning and testing variables, 3000 dollars worth of .22 gun and optic shooting 5 shot group of 23 grain javelin slugs (data collection day, i normally shoot 50-150 yards with this gun) . I hope I'm allowed to hangout with the spring guys too. 😁

20211201_170801.jpg
 
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boscoebrea said:
I quality springer,which there are many can outshoot a pcp that costs about the same.
Yes ,I tested my theory yesterday,ok it is a generalization,never-the-less for me it holds true.
A $400-500 springer is more accurate that a $400-500 pcp...
I think why too many guys go with the pcp is because of the hype,or they may have a hard time cocking a springer,I see no other reasons.
A $500 pcp is just the start of the spending frenzy also. But Jesse a pcp is easier to shoot,you don't need as much skill; :eek:hold on Buster your going to get in trouble saying that:ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
wonder why springers never enter the EBR?
 
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6gun said:
I have to ask if youve ever tuned an fx on a cool day and brought it out into serious heat? It's living, breathing, cranky and likely to make you wonder if you ever chrono'd, tuned or zeroed the rifle till you learn their personality 🤣 I love this topic because I'm a pump/pcp/co2 guy but only because I'm the problem with all the springers I've owned.
Click to expand...
Not an FX but many, many FT rifles, the unregulated ones have a tougher time, the regulated one less so. I've shot in temperatures from 36 degrees to 120 degrees, from sea level to a mile or more up. I try to set up for a competition using a similar heat level and if that is not possible I monitor my velocities with a rifle mounted chrony and adjust prior to the start of the match so I am at my correct velocity for my dope card.

Funny part is in general it is discouraged to change your power setting for the environment in field target. I went a few matches without making any changes before I figured out that I need my velocity to be correct (when you listen to and follow advice from top shooters to eventually figure out its not working for you).

I thought I had a temp/velocity problem with my Thomas until I found out that it was my chrony (it was reading 30fps under a good one). This was finally put to bed at the Worlds in Arizona, it was 45 in the morning and 90 at the end of day one, no velocity issues or I would have been DQ'd (I had set the rifle up at 55 degrees in a different state, it was the warmest day of the month).

My wiggling has always been more of an issue than temperature changes. When i'm steady its lights out. Now if only I could do better offhand... LOL

I have found my FX Impact to be overly fussy when many older rifles have none of the same issues. I have yet to run it in a competition or tune it and test it at a higher temperature, I would hope it has the same shift as my other regulated pcp's, little to none...
 
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I have a nice HW95n in .20 cal. I love the gun for its simplicity and it is accurate enough to hunt out to 50 yards or so in capable hands but... it will never keep up with my PCPs even at shorter ranges and without a doubt @ 50 and beyond. I do enjoy shooting my HW with peep sight, I feel it keeps my basic shooting skills sharp.

14.jpg


22.jpg
 
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boscoebrea said:
ok ,i was shooting at 30 yards...and because a PCP is easier to shoot and can shoot longer distance ,that is why.
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For the same pellets it shoots the same distance. Can't really compare a 177 springer to a 35 cal PCP when it comes to shooting distances. Well I guess you can, but its an unfair comparison.

One of the better field target springer shooters believes that springer and pcp scores should be the same. A bold statement for sure. I guess it is possible (doing it consistently) but I have only seen it happen a couple of times in a lot of matches.

Having recently tried out WFTF from shooting Open and I can see how a springer can be loved for its simplicity, I like gadgets but the WFTF setup was quicker than my Open rig because it has fewer things to do when getting set up for a shot.

As an entry level rifle (even though a good one is somewhat expensive) a springer is great, if you learn to shoot it well you'll be able to shoot just about anything. Most of the springer competitors are lights out when they occasionally shoot pcps for competition.
 
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