I need advise on talking a shooting range into allowing high power air rifles.

[Tominco]

Blucore shooting center in Lakewood Colorado does not allow Air Rifles. The associate I talked to (not the owner) at first told me that the air rifle would have to shoot 1200 fps. I asked why since most of us shot around 900 for the best accuracy. He then went on to say maybe it was 1400 fps! Then his coworker told him that they were not allowed. So, I went on to ask if he knew what the reasoning was. He told me that he didn't know and that he was not really the guy to talk to about it. 
So, I have the name of the owner and I know that he's on vacation until after the 4th. My plan is to make an appointment with him (possibly before or after business hours) and introduce him to the world of High Power Professional Air Rifles. 
Has anyone gone down this path before? 

Does anyone have any advise on swaying the mind of a PB shooting business owner? 

Can anyone think of any "ammo" I might use to quickly educate this person?

Thanks,
Tominco

 

[Nueces]

Seems to me talking sense to someone turning down business and income for no good reason may not get you too far. Stupid unfounded prejudices are hard to crack.

 

[crosman2016]

For what reason would they not allow an air rifle? I don't get it either. So, this place only allows firearms?

 

[Nueces]

Try this: If you can figure out when he's going to be there show up with twenty or so avid air gunners and all of you wave a fist full of dollars at him ... asking " what's wrong with our money ?!"

 

[plinker]

I think their concern, though likely unwarranted, is possible ricochet. I think a demonstration is your best bet. If they make a large portion of their income selling ammunition you may have a battle.

 

[peterdulux]

I work at a gun range and we allow both.
But, we have a schedule where our air gunners shoot on odd days, we do not allow centre fire on those nights, just air guns and rimfire.

Our air gunners are competitive shooters, so to allow them to concentrate, we don't allow centre fire those nights.

Can an air gunner shoot on a centre fire night, of course, just don't complain about the noise.

So, that may or may not have something to do with it.

 

[Tominco]

Nueces - I haven't spoken with the actual owner/manager as of yet. So, I don't know if he's prejudiced or not. I don't know if there even ARE 20 air gunners in Colorado! lol. It's a pro-PB state. All I see is 7 from our members map. Also, I wouldn't want to put on a demonstration. I'd rather try educating and reasoning with him first. 

Crosman2016 - Only firearms. I forgot to mention that it is an indoor range. (I'll edit my original post.)

Plinker - I bet you're right on both points. I wonder, at what fps do lead pellets ricochet? 

Peterdulux - That's an option I might toss at him. Allow Air Rifles on certain nights. I wouldn't go so far as "air only" for this guy. I don't think CO has the fan base to justify it. 

Tom

 

[plinker]

 I wonder, at what fps do lead pellets ricochet? Tominco

I couldn't give you numbers, but I can tell you from back yard experience, that my Verminator fired on the lowest of three power wheel settings spun off pellets a lot. You could hear the telltale sound of them bouncing off and spinning through the air the hitting other objects. Even off of dirt. Same problem with subsonic cb shorts in powder burner .22. They were dangerous though quiet to shoot. Thats one of my reasons for pursuing pcp's. 

 

[Killerclown]

I had the same problem with a local range here in Ca, they were worried about ricochet because of fpe

 

[Calbarry]

I asked at my local range and was told yes. When I signed in, the clerk asked what was in the big bag. I told him it was my air tank. He asked to see it, then told me tanks weren't allowed on the range. He said I could shoot if I left the tank in the car. I asked why it was ok to shoot a gun that had a tank on it and not have the big tank available. He asked to see the gun and when he saw the bottle on the Royale he told me I couldn't shoot it. His reason? A pellet or bullet could ricochet ,hitting the tank and making it explode. I don't think the range personnel have enough experience with the modern airguns to make a decision

 

[AZSteve]

Tom,

Approach this from an interest based bargaining position. When you speak with the owner, do not make it seem like you are on separate sides. Concentrate on what you have in common. He may believe that all airguns are Red Ryder BB guns that do not belong at his range. Take some pellet samples to show him. Explain that allowing airguns would not require modifications to the existing range because any range that can handle centerfire rifles will be adequate for air rifles. Ask if the policy is based on any liability issues. If he is worried about non-lead ammo, talk about a lead projectile only policy. Explain that he can increase his customer base by allowing air rifles. Explain that air rifles do not leave anything behind like firearms do (brass), so there is less cleanup involved with airguns. He may only be willing to allow them on certain days or at certain times, but that is better than not at all. Take a rifle or two with you, leave them in your vehicle, and ask if he would like to inspect them and for you to show him how they work. If he agrees, bring them in for him. I don't know how you feel about others handling your guns, but it might help if you let him try one himself. The best approach is to think about the commonalities to bargain over and not appear adversarial. Show how this arrangement can be beneficial to both of you. Best of luck.

 

[plinker]

Great response AZSteve. I'm going to call YOU if I ever have a hostage negotiation issue!

 

[T3PRanch]

"Calbarry"I asked at my local range and was told yes. When I signed in, the clerk asked what was in the big bag. I told him it was my air tank. He asked to see it, then told me tanks weren't allowed on the range. He said I could shoot if I left the tank in the car. I asked why it was ok to shoot a gun that had a tank on it and not have the big tank available. He asked to see the gun and when he saw the bottle on the Royale he told me I couldn't shoot it. His reason? A pellet or bullet could ricochet ,hitting the tank and making it explode. I don't think the range personnel have enough experience with the modern airguns to make a decision

Yikes....At that point I think I would be more concerned at that particular range with a ricochet hitting me and making me bleed profusely!

Thurmond

 

[AZBOBCAT]

The soft lead pellets are made of don't ricochet off of indoor shooting traps. Have shot airguns in many indoor ranges. Usually take one to pistol matches to show them off to shooters that don't know about them. They probably don't allow bb guns and they just assume they are the same. Some ranges only allow pistol calibers as the traps are not centerfire rifle rated, but I think if you talk to the owner and show him the pellets and rifle you will probably get a good result. I am in prototype stage with my airguns and already have local gun stores that want them in the store.

 

[glengiles]

PCP's especially are a growing market as the cost of PB ammo rises. This doesn't mean that all PB shooters are giving up their PB guns but since PCP's are a growing market, why wouldn't he want to get in on the ground floor? There's an outdoor range close to me that's private and I've spoken with the owner and he's fine with me joining them but yet to do so.

 

[blackdiesel]

There is one in-door 100 yards range close to me and I called and talked to the range master about shooting my 30 cal there. He said they didn't allow "BB guns" there. I asked if they allowed 22 center fire and he said of course. I told him that my 30 cal generated 80FPE which was just a little less than the 22 center fire. After talking to him for about 30 minutes it became obvious he knew hardly anything technical about firearms. So in the end he still had air rifle and "BB gun" set in his head. Maybe if the guy you speak to understands about ballistics and you explain the accuracy he will understand and allow it.

 

[zebra]

My local range allows air guns (including bb guns). The risk of a even low powered BB gun ricocheting off a wall 25 - 100 yards away and seriously injuring a shooter wearing eye protection is somewhere between zero and no chance. 

Lead pellets can certainly ricochet as I found out when one missed a chipmunk on my driveway and bounced into my car tire and gave me a flat. I am fairly sure a firearm can ricochet too if it hits solid concrete at an angle at close range. 

Maybe it is best to wait and hear what the owners concerns actually are. I have met a number of very knowledgable firearms owners who know nothing about pcp guns. If they are in any way rational then a little education should be all that is needed. He might want to avoid kids from the local airsoft team coming.

The comment about the minimum fps shows a limited understanding of muzzle energy so it might just be that the guys working there were wrong. I am assuming they allow subsonic bullets?

Maybe be bring a short list of other ranges that allow air rifles to show that it is ok. Monkey see, monkey do.

 

[Alan]

While I admit is has been 15 years, the shooting center in question was less than a mile from my home, in the 1600 block of South Carr. I shot two different pumps guns there, and one break barrel over several years. I can't imagine why the clowns working there would have an objection?

Oh! One more thing. I know the shooting range in Aurora is a ways off for any Lakewood resident, they used to have a specific day of the week, where the only thing you could shoot was an airgun—no muffs required!