HW97K - Off by Inches at 20yds After Lack of Use

[herein2018]

Is it normal for an air rifle's scope to have to be re-zeroed after it has sat for a few weeks? I've noticed if I do not use my .177 HW97K for a few weeks or a month or so, the next time I go to use it it is usually up to an inch or two off from being calibrated at 20yds. I have an Aztec Optics 5.5-25x50 scope on it and I don't understand why I have this problem. I feel like I am always fiddling with changing the ammunition, the way I hold it, re-zeroing the scope, etc. but nothing seems to help. 

I've tried at least 10 different types of ammunition and currently it seems to like H&N Sport FTT 8.64gr. I will zero the whole setup at 20yds until I am shooting pellet on pellet then get bored and take a few weeks off. The next time I go to use it, it will shoot high left, or high right and I have to re-zero the scope.

Even if I use it regularly, within 3 months or so it will start to drift out of calibration and I will need to re-zero the scope. I don't think it is the scope, and I don't think it is the rifle, but I have to assume it is one of them. So my question is, does anyone else have this problem or is it normal to have to rezero a scope every few months?

 

[Yarddog]

Might be you getting used to it again.

 

[Brazos]

My experience (spring rifles) is that it is not the rifle or the scope. It is me. When I lay off a spring rifle for any amount of time it takes me some time to get back into the groove with that rifle. Also (spring or pcp) if there is any wind whatsoever it will cause problems. If you have resettable turrets on your scope then sight you rifle in on a calm day when you are in the grove and shooting small groups. Reset the turrets to 0 zero. I bet the next time you shoot you will find, after screwing around adjusting sights, the turrets will magically find their way back to zero as you get back into the groove of shooting the rifle. At least that’s the way it typically works for me.

 

[Odoyle]

I would get a second opinion and swap scopes just to see.

 

[herein2018]

I considered that it could be me, so a few times I have simply refused to change anything on the scope. Once I was so certain that it must be me that I shot at least 200 rounds through it and it never went back to center; every single time in that instance it was over an inch off until I finally gave up and re-zero'd the scope. I'm definitely off a little (ok a lot) if I haven't shot in a while; my shot pattern spreads out to about a dime at 20yds, but it is a pretty even dime (over/under/left/right) with an occasional flyaway that is obviously my fault.



But when this problem occurs every single shot is way off and typically high and to the left, no amount of additional shooting will fix it; only adjusting the scope fixes it, but I've never heard of a scope drifting when it is not in use. The rifle is also very finicky about its ammunition as well, I still feel like I haven't found the perfect pellets for it, but I got tired of testing. 



I've been doing a lot of research on scopes and am thinking about switching to an Athlon scope. Thanks to this forum the Athlon Optics Argos BTR GEN2 6-24X50 is in my sights. I really like the Aztec scope but it is a very new company and I've never had a problem like this before with past setups.

 

[biohazardman]

Springers have a habit of trashing scopes. I trashed six scopes on my Diana 45 and another on my 52. So, put a Diana Bullseye mount on the 52 and another on my 54 and no longer have any scope related problems. My accuracy has not suffered either.



https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/shot-some-targets-50-yards-with-the-diana-54/

 

[herein2018]

Springers have a habit of trashing scopes. I trashed six scopes on my Diana 45 and another on my 52. So, put a Diana Bullseye mount on the 52 and another on my 54 and no longer have any scope related problems. My accuracy has not suffered either.



https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/shot-some-targets-50-yards-with-the-diana-54/

That is a very interesting mount, I may try that before replacing the scope, but the scope may be trashed by now already. I know I always contact the manufacturer before buying a scope to make sure it is springer rated because of the double recoil. A lot of people put ordinary scopes on their springers which will typically not work. The Aztec scope was supposedly built from the ground up for air rifles but the first one I had to send back immediately because the shot groups kept moving all over the place on the first day using it and I'm on my second one with this new problem.

Everyone raves about the Hawke Airmax and so I got one and sent it back immediately; it wouldn't zero for me and it just didn't feel like it was worth the price.

 

[Glenroiland]

I've always felt that my springers are a little off POA after they sit. But I've never had them that far off. I'll put it away and I'm killing the dead center of the target. Weeks later I'll bringnit out, but it'll be a hair to the left. I've chalked it up to temperature differences, etc. But I've only seen the POI shift a TINY amount. It wouldne even be enough for me to miss my kill zones in small game, but I notice it on the targets.



Edit...and Btw like other's have said, I'd assume it's the scope especially when talking about this gun in specific. Scope and/or mounts. Have you taken the time to chrony it? Safest bet is to rescope it, and try that scope on another gun. I had one scope that would be finenwith shooting sessions, then would seem to shift (shift by a wide margin, but still on paper). After its POI shifted, it would be fine again for a while until it shifted again. It would group for a hundred shots, then shift and be ok for 50 to 100 shots, etc....

 

[herein2018]

I've always felt that my springers are a little off POA after they sit. But I've never had them that far off. I'll put it away and I'm killing the dead center of the target. Weeks later I'll bringnit out, but it'll be a hair to the left. I've chalked it up to temperature differences, etc. But I've only seen the POI shift a TINY amount. It wouldne even be enough for me to miss my kill zones in small game, but I notice it on the targets.



Edit...and Btw like other's have said, I'd assume it's the scope especially when talking about this gun in specific. Scope and/or mounts. Have you taken the time to chrony it? Safest bet is to rescope it, and try that scope on another gun. I had one scope that would be finenwith shooting sessions, then would seem to shift (shift by a wide margin, but still on paper). After its POI shifted, it would be fine again for a while until it shifted again. It would group for a hundred shots, then shift and be ok for 50 to 100 shots, etc....

I only have the HW97K so no way to try it on another gun. I really don't take this hobby as seriously as most of the members of this forum and so I only have one scope and the HW97K rifle but when I want to go out and have fun target shooting or hunting I don't want to constantly fiddle with my gear; if I miss I want to know it was my fault not my equipment. I also thought maybe temp or humidity differences caused it but come on....an inch high and left nearly every time?

I have the problem you described as well.....it will group for awhile then seemingly overnight the grouping will move so I'll rezero the scope and try again. I figured it was the ammunition I'm using or a dirty barrel because it's hard to believe I've gone through 3 scopes in the $400+ range and still don't have a consistent reliable setup. It was also hard early on to tell if it was the scope or the ammunition or the gun because as it was breaking in and I was testing ammo it was all over the place. By now I've probably shot about 3,000 rounds through it and have somewhat reliable ammunition (H&N Sport FTT 8.64gr), so the only thing left is the scope.

The bullseye ZR seems like an interesting product but it's getting mixed reviews recently and apparently they moved their manufacturing to China, so now I'm a little hesitant to try it.

 

[biohazardman]

Springers have a habit of trashing scopes. I trashed six scopes on my Diana 45 and another on my 52. So, put a Diana Bullseye mount on the 52 and another on my 54 and no longer have any scope related problems. My accuracy has not suffered either.



https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/shot-some-targets-50-yards-with-the-diana-54/

That is a very interesting mount, I may try that before replacing the scope, but the scope may be trashed by now already. I know I always contact the manufacturer before buying a scope to make sure it is springer rated because of the double recoil. A lot of people put ordinary scopes on their springers which will typically not work. The Aztec scope was supposedly built from the ground up for air rifles but the first one I had to send back immediately because the shot groups kept moving all over the place on the first day using it and I'm on my second one with this new problem.

Everyone raves about the Hawke Airmax and so I got one and sent it back immediately; it wouldn't zero for me and it just didn't feel like it was worth the price.

Yes one of my Hawke Airmax scopes did not last long either. I have the other on the same gun with the Diana mount now and about a thousand or so rounds through it without any problems at all.

 

[herein2018]

Springers have a habit of trashing scopes. I trashed six scopes on my Diana 45 and another on my 52. So, put a Diana Bullseye mount on the 52 and another on my 54 and no longer have any scope related problems. My accuracy has not suffered either.



https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/shot-some-targets-50-yards-with-the-diana-54/

That is a very interesting mount, I may try that before replacing the scope, but the scope may be trashed by now already. I know I always contact the manufacturer before buying a scope to make sure it is springer rated because of the double recoil. A lot of people put ordinary scopes on their springers which will typically not work. The Aztec scope was supposedly built from the ground up for air rifles but the first one I had to send back immediately because the shot groups kept moving all over the place on the first day using it and I'm on my second one with this new problem.

Everyone raves about the Hawke Airmax and so I got one and sent it back immediately; it wouldn't zero for me and it just didn't feel like it was worth the price.

Yes one of my Hawke Airmax scopes did not last long either. I have the other on the same gun with the Diana mount now and about a thousand or so rounds through it without any problems at all.

I just didn't like the feel of the rings and knobs of the Hawk Airmax, the machining of the metal, the clicks, etc. didn't appeal to me for the price I paid. The Aztec Emerald on the other hand feels perfect. It gets a little cloudy on the long end but I rarely go past 18x anyway.



I ordered the Bullseye mount, I figured it was cheaper than trying another scope and it will be hard to find one I like as much as the Aztec. If that fixes it, I may buy the new FFP version of the Aztec. If the first Bullseye binds up or is loose (two of the problems I've read about now that they are made in China) I'll exchange it for a second. If the second is just as bad I'll give up on it.

 

[Mossonarock]

I had an Aztec emerald sfp on my HW97kt and never had issues with scope shift and use a two piece mount. It was my most used pesting gun since I could set it down for a month without using but pull it out to make a quick shot at a problem bird usually at only 15m though. I bought my scope over a year ago. I now have the scope on my LGV. The HW97kt is retired now since I like my LGV way more. That cloudiness you mention on the higher magnifications are likely just parralax issues. I also rarely use the higher magnifications mostly since I just don't have much use for them. So, I can't even remember if I have cloudiness issues at higher mags. I know I've used the scope to look at Jupiter and was able to resolve some of the moons but couldn't resolve the cloud bands on the planet. I bought my Aztec just because I liked the reticle. 

 

[jmiller]

Honestly, $400 is fairly cheap for a 5.5-25x50 scope. Some cloudiness at higher magnification and inability to hold zero(especially on a springer) should not really be a surprise. I’d probably be more surprised(and also ecstatic) if one of these new start-up scope companies that seem popular in the air gun world could actually pull it off for that price. It often takes more coin than that to get a scope that offers good resolution at that kind of magnification(especially with a 5x zoom travel) OR tough-as-nails internals, let alone both.



With the reputation that the HW97 has, I’d be inclined to think scope failure would be one if the most likely explanations...

 

[herein2018]

Honestly, $400 is fairly cheap for a 5.5-25x50 scope. Some cloudiness at higher magnification and inability to hold zero(especially on a springer) should not really be a surprise. I’d probably be more surprised(and also ecstatic) if one of these new start-up scope companies that seem popular in the air gun world could actually pull it off for that price. It often takes more coin than that to get a scope that offers good resolution at that kind of magnification(especially with a 5x zoom travel) OR tough-as-nails internals, let alone both.



With the reputation that the HW97 has, I’d be inclined to think scope failure would be one if the most likely explanations...

You are right, I realized that after doing some research. I'm a former Gamo user who used to think the most expensive pellet gun at WalMart was the best one out there, so after stepping up to the HW97K and spending $400 on a scope I thought there was no way anything could go wrong. I'm hoping the Bullseye mount turns my $400 scope into something more reliable, I just don't use my setup often enough to spend the kind of $$ I see people on this forum spending. I also live in a very urban area which limits the amount of time I get to spend enjoying this hobby.

There does seem to be a new dime a dozen scope company, I feel like most of them are just re-branded junk from China which is why I'm hesitant to change anything from my current setup. I have a hard time believing there are that many professional lab and research companies producing all of these brand new products in a niche industry like this.

 

[herein2018]

I had an Aztec emerald sfp on my HW97kt and never had issues with scope shift and use a two piece mount. It was my most used pesting gun since I could set it down for a month without using but pull it out to make a quick shot at a problem bird usually at only 15m though. I bought my scope over a year ago. I now have the scope on my LGV. The HW97kt is retired now since I like my LGV way more. That cloudiness you mention on the higher magnifications are likely just parralax issues. I also rarely use the higher magnifications mostly since I just don't have much use for them. So, I can't even remember if I have cloudiness issues at higher mags. I know I've used the scope to look at Jupiter and was able to resolve some of the moons but couldn't resolve the cloud bands on the planet. I bought my Aztec just because I liked the reticle.

It seems to be fine for about 200-300 shots, but then something always seems to shift. I once went through about 1500rds (3 tins) in a day and I would say it shifted by about a dime by the end of the day. I used to think it was the way I was holding it, or that it had to be me, but with an artillery hold and bench rested and proper breathing I couldn't explain the shift. Each time it shifted I would try different ammo and the whole thing was this long painful process until I just gave up and now I just re-zero the scope each time if it has been sitting for more than a few weeks or if it starts shifting during a day of shooting. 

You may not notice the shift while pesting, my tests were done on targets and when I couldn't get the second pellet to touch the hole of the first pellet at 20yds and I know it wasn't me I consider that a shift. It would slowly start to march left or right on the target (mostly left) unless I re-zeroed it. I know for a fact that I couldn't sit it down for 6 months then pick it up and go take out a squirrel at 20yds.

 

[herein2018]

Springers have a habit of trashing scopes. I trashed six scopes on my Diana 45 and another on my 52. So, put a Diana Bullseye mount on the 52 and another on my 54 and no longer have any scope related problems. My accuracy has not suffered either.



https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/shot-some-targets-50-yards-with-the-diana-54/

That is a very interesting mount, I may try that before replacing the scope, but the scope may be trashed by now already. I know I always contact the manufacturer before buying a scope to make sure it is springer rated because of the double recoil. A lot of people put ordinary scopes on their springers which will typically not work. The Aztec scope was supposedly built from the ground up for air rifles but the first one I had to send back immediately because the shot groups kept moving all over the place on the first day using it and I'm on my second one with this new problem.

Everyone raves about the Hawke Airmax and so I got one and sent it back immediately; it wouldn't zero for me and it just didn't feel like it was worth the price.

Yes one of my Hawke Airmax scopes did not last long either. I have the other on the same gun with the Diana mount now and about a thousand or so rounds through it without any problems at all.

Thanks for the tip, I got my Diana mount today, it dialed in perfectly at 20yds within 4 shots and I kept going until the entire center was shot out around the size of a dime. Not a single shift after about 30 shots or a single flyaway.. Right after I got everything perfectly dialed in some squirrels started chattering at me around 100yds away. I managed to drop both and one was from the standing position unsupported about 35 yds away off balance shooting over the neighbors fence....good times. Looks like I might enjoy this hobby again.

 

[Ravenairgun123]

I got a bug buster 3-9x32 and I can hit golf balls at 100 yards with my vortek hw97k. this scope is incredible and from my experience has the least if not any noticeable poi movement. also has lockable turrets. also has illuminated reticle. I had same problem with centrepoint scopes on my benjamin until I switched to the UTG bugbuster. they factory test these scopes and are rated for even a 50 cal bmg. they can defintaly handle the force of double recoil of a spring air rifle. check youtube for utg bug buster on a 50 cal sniper.

also temperature can adjust or change the POI. also make sure the screw in your mount is screwed down in one of the 3 slots on your hw97k to prevent your mount from sliding back and forth.

 

[herein2018]

I got a bug buster 3-9x32 and I can hit golf balls at 100 yards with my vortek hw97k. this scope is incredible and from my experience has the least if not any noticeable poi movement. also has lockable turrets. also has illuminated reticle. I had same problem with centrepoint scopes on my benjamin until I switched to the UTG bugbuster. they factory test these scopes and are rated for even a 50 cal bmg. they can defintaly handle the force of double recoil of a spring air rifle. check youtube for utg bug buster on a 50 cal sniper.

also temperature can adjust or change the POI. also make sure the screw in your mount is screwed down in one of the 3 slots on your hw97k to prevent your mount from sliding back and forth.

Thanks for the tip, I'm now ready to throw the Aztec scope away, it was perfect for a few days and I made a point of shooting it for the last 4 days straight....by today only 6 days later it is over an inch high and I don't even know where it is left or right because it is so far off. I'm going to try the scope you mentioned. 

 

[jmiller]

That Bug Buster scope will probably not fit in any one-piece mounts. Leapers UTG has a regular 3-9x32 that would, though. I just got one the other day. Seems to be doing alright, and at least one member of another forum claims that they hold up well on medium-powered springers.



If you really just want to target shoot with an HW97, and don’t mind weight/size but really just want something that will have decent glass, good adjustments, and is one of the most rugged scopes made, I’d suggest getting an SWFA Super Sniper. They’re rated for 50BMG, are fixed-magnification which means even fewer things the break, and are touted by one person in another forum who runs a shooting school and sees tens of thousands of precision-aimed shots fired every year as the only thing under $1K that doesn’t eventually break or fail to track reliably. Also highly regarded by an optics engineer who runs a blog about scopes. However, they have a 30mm tube and would probably require yet another mount- unless you already have one.

 

[Simplyhooked]

 "it seems to like H&N Sport FTT 8.64gr." From my experience with my HW97, it always shot Beeman Field Target Special pellet better than anything that I've tried. Personally, I think it has more to do with your choice of pellets because I too have tried other pellets but with no success. Seeing that I'm hooked on pcps, I only play with my springers when the erg strikes but my HW97 was still on spot on at 20 yards and dead center using Beeman Field Target Specials that I can't find anywhere.