HW97 moderator, does it do anything?

[shausen]

I hate futzing around with extra complexity. For instance, I have a 4x5 view camera, which is as simple as it gets, no batteries, no stupid menus, etc. I have a digital camera that I haet using. So, dealing with air, ugh, dealing with CO2, ugh. Single pump, oh yeah! Shooting my bb gun is fine, but yeah, pistol. My left year is the more sensitive one. I guess we'll see. If it's too much then I'll explore other options. Sadly, Mundilar hasn't shipped yet so I am anxiously waiting.

 

[Mycapt65]

If costs are not too much of a concern I think you might be better off with a PCP than a springer. A lot of the noise people experience from a springer is by conduction from the stock to the cheek bones, not a good thing for tinnitus. I have a PCP with a moderator that is more powerful than my springers and it is mouse fart quiet, I think it may serve you better unless you are like me and have a soft spot for traditional mechanical devices.

-Marty

I'm a dyed in the wool springer guy but Marty is 100% right about noise sensitivity. A moderator on a springer does little for the shooter. IMO a tune is a more appreciable vibration and noise improvement for the shooter on springers.

 

[shausen]

Thanks for the info. I was planning on getting it tuned, so I'll pursue that and let whoever I pick know. One of the things to know is that I may be shooting from inside my house outside to my yard. So, I was hoping to lower the volume for the interior echo. Though my backyard is semi-shrouded by trees, there is a sidewalk that goes back from up the hill and people might freak. I'm trying to think of alternatives. A pistol would easier for the backyard. But on weekends I could go out to the woods east of Seattle.

 

[Mycapt65]

Since you already have it ordered.
I have a 177 HW97 and it's noticeably quieter than my similar powered Hw95 or Hw50. If you want to see the difference the factory moderator makes just drop a soda straw in the moderator. The straw defeats the baffling and you'll see it's noticeably loaded. That little moderator actually works. But more so for the neighbors

 

[Mycapt65]

Shooting inside the house will quiet the noise your neighbors hear and echo more noise back to you. I did this alot. You can balance the noise by your set back to the window. The closer to the window increases exterior noise and further back increases interior noise. The gun isn't that noisy. Shoot it and then worry about it.

 

[shausen]

Thanks for the info! Yes, the moderator concept is mostly for the neighbors. There's enough home tear-downs/new build that I can hear lots of nail guns going off around here so figure my shooting should fit right in, but think that any attempts to quiet it down means less notice. Inside, I do have floor length thick curtains because the windows are 58x58 which should help somewhat. Since I'll be shooting from the upper floor, I'll be shrouded getting my sniper training on. I'm going to have to clear a path through the tree though to the ground. The hillside goes up as the yard goes back so I won't be shooting directly down. Woe to any squirrel that makes an appearance.

 

[Deerstalker]

HW95L .22 at 17 FPE shot cycle. Rifle has an ARH kit, Vortek seal & GPL-205 lube.

 

[Mycapt65]

Thanks for the info! Yes, the moderator concept is mostly for the neighbors. There's enough home tear-downs/new build that I can hear lots of nail guns going off around here so figure my shooting should fit right in, but think that any attempts to quiet it down means less notice. Inside, I do have floor length thick curtains because the windows are 58x58 which should help somewhat. Since I'll be shooting from the upper floor, I'll be shrouded getting my sniper training on. I'm going to have to clear a path through the tree though to the ground. The hillside goes up as the yard goes back so I won't be shooting directly down. Woe to any squirrel that makes an appearance.

Outside the house the 97 won't sound any louder than a staple gun. Just remember that angled distance requires less hold over than the same horizontal distance. It's best if you zero the gun on targets near the bait station itself.

 

[shausen]

If costs are not too much of a concern I think you might be better off with a PCP than a springer. A lot of the noise people experience from a springer is by conduction from the stock to the cheek bones, not a good thing for tinnitus. I have a PCP with a moderator that is more powerful than my springers and it is mouse fart quiet, I think it may serve you better unless you are like me and have a soft spot for traditional mechanical devices.

-Marty

You sir, are very wise. My HW77 arrived and I have to say that until you actually fire one, it's hard to envision what it feels like since I'm new to this. I'm looking into PCP's to investigate what's quiet there.

 

[MartyMcFly]

You sir, are very wise. My HW77 arrived and I have to say that until you actually fire one, it's hard to envision what it feels like since I'm new to this. I'm looking into PCP's to investigate what's quiet there.

One word of caution before you dismiss it into a dust bin. I still think a PCP will serve you better in terms of noise, that said, springers often come with too much grease and over powered from the factory. A cleaned up or tuned HW77, with power reduced to 12 FPE instead of the standard 14 or 15 FPE will be quieter then what you are experiencing now because it won’t fire as violently, especially with no grease to detonate in the compression chamber.

If you want a good “starter” PCP that is quiet then the Benjamin Marauder is probably your best option.

-Marty

 

[shausen]

Too late, I poured gasoline on it and threw it into the fireplace!

No, I'd read that you can get it tuned to reduce power, vibration, etc, so that was on the docket. I also thought some sort of pad around the stock would help with contact. The moderator is on the way, but I don't think that's going to reduce the vibration. But it can't hurt with the neighbors. I'll contact a tuner and see if they can get it to a bass note. I don't get the same effect firing a pistol like my P17 so I can play with that for the time being while it's out for tuning.

I was looking at a Feinwerkbau 500 cuz I like the looks. I saw the bicycle pump video on AoA and thought that would be a way to start, I like exercise. I've seen some 10m match videos and the report doesn't sound that loud even when they're in echo-ey halls. I imagine that the recoil is low to assist accuracy. I like the looks of Anschutz but I'd read here that they're loud. Thanks for the info!

 

[Mycapt65]

Most of the noise you're hearing in the 77 is mechanical noise. I tune Weihrauchs and tuning the gun will reduce the felt vibration considerably but it will not considerably reduce the noise the shooter hears. The actual report of the 77 isn't that loud at full power unless you are shooting it in a basement. Outdoors and away from the gun it's not very loud like any other mid power springer.

Reducing power will only slightly reduce the actual report and do nothing to the mechanical noise the shooter hears, which is 90% of the noise the shooter hears.

Tuning for a power reduction is generally done to reduce recoil energy which typically improves accuracy. IMO without changing the bore or stroke the 77/97 behaves best between 13-14 fpe in 177. Again this is for accuracy and felt recoil. Not noise

I'm sorry you're unhappy with the 77. The factory 97 moderator does actually work some and might have been a better choice. Also 22 caliber typically has a better shot cycle with less noise than the same guns in 177. We're really splitting hairs here though.

Bottom line is, only spend the money to tune your 77 if you are doing it to reduce the horrid spring vibration they come with. Not to significantly reduce the noise you hear

You may be better served with a PCP. A word of advice there is to do your research thoroughly. Many PCPs have a much louder report than your 77. They range from whisper to a loud pop.

Good luck and I hope you find what you're looking for.

Ron

 

[fusion]

Just the other day, I was shooting my HW97 and the accuracy was getting spotty. So, I cleaned the barrel, and in the process, I forgot to reinstall the cap that goes on the end of the moderator. I didn't know I had forgotten it, and went back to shooting. The pop from the muzzle was so loud I thought it was dieseling. I tried a few more shots, thinking it would go away, but it didn't. Then I discovered I had failed to install the cap. Once I installed the cap, the gun quieted right down to normal. I was really shocked at the difference in report with the moderator assembled properly.

This lead me to think about installing a baffle in the space the moderator provides. So next I designed and 3D printed a mono-core baffle.

This is a rendering of it in acrylic so you can see the helical baffle. I 3D printed the one I installed in the gun. It had a very positive impact on the report volume and tone. It's now more comfortable to shoot inside, and the lower tone is more pleasing to my ear.

Best regards,
Mike

 

[Mycapt65]

Mike
I made a similar discovery with my 97. After cleaning the barrel, the gun sounded like I forgot to put a pellet it in it. I saw the shot hit the target so I thought WTF!? Maybe I didn't dry the bore enough and it detonated? Tried a second shot and pow! Same thing.

Then I realized I left the soda straw in the moderator. I use large soda straws to guide the patch puller through the muzzle. I removed the soda straw and it was quiet again. That's how I know the factory moderator works. The soda straw defeated the factory moderator.

I'm pretty sure my 97 came factory with simple baffling in the moderator. Honestly the difference in sound dampening was probably amplified because I was shooting it in my concrete basement. Outside with no walls echoing the sound it might not be as noticeable.

 

[shausen]

Thanks for all the input, these are good data points.

I think what's happening to me is this: "A lot of the noise people experience from a springer is by conduction from the stock to the cheek bones, not a good thing for tinnitus." @marty McFly

The report doesn't sound that loud, it's like the vibration is causing my tinnitus to flare. Mostly in my left ear because my tinnitus is worse there. I fired my Beeman P17 and that seemed fine, but a pistol is not connected to the head bone. I'll likely take the rifle outside and fire it to further test. I just have to make sure the neighbors don't see or they'll likely flip out. But it did seem like an interesting experiment to tune the rifle and see what that does for the vibration and my particular sound experience which might be a little of both, both vibration and report. I didn't realize that .22 would be different. I could have ordered a 97k in .22 instead of this one. Hmmm.....

 

[Mycapt65]

Thanks for all the input, these are good data points.

I think what's happening to me is this: "A lot of the noise people experience from a springer is by conduction from the stock to the cheek bones, not a good thing for tinnitus." @marty McFly

The report doesn't sound that loud, it's like the vibration is causing my tinnitus to flare. Mostly in my left ear because my tinnitus is worse there. I fired my Beeman P17 and that seemed fine, but a pistol is not connected to the head bone. I'll likely take the rifle outside and fire it to further test. I just have to make sure the neighbors don't see or they'll likely flip out. But it did seem like an interesting experiment to tune the rifle and see what that does for the vibration and my particular sound experience which might be a little of both, both vibration and report. I didn't realize that .22 would be different. I could have ordered a 97k in .22 instead of this one. Hmmm.....

Hind sight is 20 20 my friend.

I don't know if a tune will fix your tinnitus problem. I can tell you that a tune will make the gun more enjoyable to shoot. I can't shoot an untuned Weihrauch anymore. There's a big difference between a gun that goes boinnngg! and one that goes thudd!
Also something that might help your condition is to scope it with high mounts. This will get your cheek bone off the stock comb. I try not to face plant my stocks anyway. The more pressure points on the gun, the harder it is to have a consistent hold. Springer accuracy is all about having a consistent proper hold.

 

[Struckat]

My 95 was unbearable out of the box. The buzz, twang and jump was really bad.
A spring kit solved that in a big way. I also learned that the skin of my cheek just touching is the way to go. If I feel the stock with my bones, it means I am “Face mashing” and it affects accuracy and my head in a negative way.

Noise difference from 177 to 22, I do not notice a difference when I swap between barrels. Doesn’t mean that there is no difference, just that I can’t tell.

I now have 2 pcp, hand pumping is a drag.

 

[MartyMcFly]

@shausen

If you do decide to tune your rifle I’d like to offer some additional advice from my own experience. The Vortek tune kits are great at eliminating spring twang and reducing lock time however the design of the Vortek seal and the use of stiffer springs will change the frequency of the shot. Notwithstanding the reduced spring noise the Vortek kits increase the audible pop of a gun. It is quick and sharp. On the other hand, using the original piston seal (if undamaged) and a softer spring will mellow the pop down, but this will require custom spring guides.

-Marty

 

[Struckat]

On the Vortek kit, I really like them because it is really easy to clip coils without having to close/finish the end of the spring.

I cut 3 coils which further improved the shot cycle with minimal loss of power.

 

[Mycapt65]

IMO the Vortek seals are the best readily available in the US. However the new PG4 kits have some clearance issues with the Weihrauchs and they often require modifications to gun to prevent metal contamination of the compression tube. Since going to the steel outer guide they aren't the easy drop in kits they used to be. If anyone wants to install a Vortek kit I say either send it to a guy familiar with them or be prepared to break out the dremel and spend alot of time fitting parts. Until Tom at Vortek changes things I think the best combination for the home tuner is a ARH kit and a Vortek seal.