HW50s group from today

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Had a chance to do a little springer shooting today. For the summer months I've been focusing on PCPs and it was a nice change to not be worried about fill pressures or shot counts. 

I did most of my shooting today at 30 yards, using the International Field Position paper targets. Personal best score with this gun is a 28/50 (also shot today). AzRover turned me onto these and it's really made me enjoy shooting paper again. You can check out the rules and description here if interested: http://www.airguns.net/comp_ifp.php

Anyway, back to the group, it was the only shooting I did with this gun at 55 yards today, so, technically I'm not 🍒 picking the best group. I thought it was a ten shot group but I can only find nine holes. It's no PCP group, but from sitting on a bumbag, quite pleased with it. Center to center is just a hair over 1 inch. This gun can usually shoot groups at 55 yards that are 1.25-1.5inches, so this is a little better than the norm. 

The gun does 750fps with JSB 7.87gr. Heavy barrel sleeve from Tinbum that's kinda like the HW98. Also has a 3d printed butt pad/hook. JM full power kit inside, kit was only doing about 720 when first put in but now that I'm 5 tins through the gun since the kit install, up to 750. Next to an RX2 for comparison. 

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Pretty sweet HW Springer, I like it more than the green lam HW77k I had for awhile, and the new FWB Sport, and the RX2. 
 
When it was new, I remember the OEM spring was a little harder to cock than it is now with the Maccari spring. 

For comparison, the HW77k was MUCH harder to cock. 

I agree that there aren't many reviews of the HW50s and I think it has to do with it's 'tweener status. It's got enough juice that it's not as easy to shoot as the HW30s (which the plinking guys want), but it doesn't have enough juice to satisfy the power chasers (like the HW80, HW90, R1 and even the HW95/R9 seems to get the nod for the power increase over the HW50s). Personally, that tweener status, both in power and size, makes it perfect. It also has a short stroke that makes the pellet exit the barrel quicker-cuts down on hold sensitivity, at least some.

Here's the IFP target. Doesn't seem too impressive until you look at the fine print and see that the inner circle is 0.526 inches and the outer is 0.98inches. And cutting the outer edge of the inner circle makes a 2 point shot only worth 1 point, and same goes for cutting outer edge of outer circle-1 point becomes zero points. Quite the challenge to shoot 25 consecutive shots at 30 yards with the hopes of keeping em under 1/2 inch. The REQUIRED consistency aspect of springer shooting really comes into play. 

Harder than it looks. 

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Good looking hw50s you have there. Springers are my preference and I have a new .177 hw50s that I’m still breaking in. Thus far, the intermediate status of the hw50s has made it a good fit for my needs. The hw30 feels a bit cramped and short on power for hunting out to 40 yards, whereas the hw97k is great in every way except that it is heavy. Mine is setup with a Vortek kit and I clipped one coil off to get about 11fpe with JSB 8.4s. Accuracy seems to be quite good, although I’m still working to improve consistency. All in all, a very nice package and likely to be a great field gun for small game.

R
 
Very nice group and nice gun. I had an R8 at one time, I think it was my first springer. I bought it because it had decent power, but still had the jointed cocking link that made the stock a little nicer. Kind of wish I hadn't sold it.

Right now I am thinking about a winter project to work up a 10 meter gun based on the HW30S. After discovering I could shoot my TX with its 9" barrel better offhand than any other conventional springer I had owned, like you I became a believer in reduced shot time. That is why I am thinking of going with the 30S, its stroke is about a half inch shorter than the 50S. But higher velocity also reduces shot time, so perhaps the 50S is really the way to go. Or maybe I could have the best of both worlds with a Vortek SHO kit in the 30S. In any case, I plan to chop and sleeve the barrel. Any thoughts?
 
Intenseaty:

I've seen the live threads you do on your guns and think it's pretty cool. I'm not sure that I've got enough to say about this HW50s to maintain a live thread like yours. I've had the gun since about 2013 and kinda feel like we've settled in for the long term together. My tuning and tweaking and pellet testing with it were done in the past and I've got it right pretty much right where I want it. I've considered trying out a Vortek kit for another 1-2fpe but probably won't, just cuz I like the current firing characteristics. I've also considered buying one of the cs600 tyrolean stocks and paying for the option of the built-in knee riser, similar to this pic of one on a HW97k.
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I priced that stock out with the options I was after and it was looking like about $400. I didn't pay that much for the gun! So, it's a want, but not a need, so probably won't even go that route. 
 
Michigander:

I believe the R8 was the same gun as the HW50s at some point? I also know the HW50s goes by HW99 in the UK.

The jointed cocking linkage that you mention is still present on the current HW50s guns. I kinda have a theory that that feature is a big reason why the gun is such a stable and consistent performer. The jointed cocking linkage allows the slot under the forearm to be much shorter, which in turn allows the screw(s) fixing the front of the action to the stock to be under the forearm instead of the two normal screws on either side of the stock forks. I personally think that the screws that hold the gun through the stock forks are a big reason why guys have trouble with inconsistencies in springers. If you look at a springer stock without the action, the stock forks look just like a tuning fork. I feel like that allows the vibrations of the shooting of the gun to create some kind of resonance that makes the screws loosen. That's where you get the star washers, and the blue loktite, and the other band-aids like steel posts to bottom out the screws on. All of that is to combat the fact that the side screws through the forks simply won't stay tight. You've also got the possibility of those thin wood pieces of the fork contracting and expanding with temp and humidity levels. My HW50s never needs the screws to be tightened-they never loosen. I think it has to do with only having two screws holding the action to the stock, both of which are on the bottom of the gun and none of which are through the vibration-prone fork of the stock. Just my thoughts, based on personal experience.

About your winter project of turning an HW30s into a 10m gun.....it's always nice to have a gun project to keep a guy busy. The 50s is probably a little more power than most people think of when considering 10m shooting, although you could tune it down, but that could in turn make it a little tougher to shoot due to longer "lock time." For indoor, cold-weather, 10m type shooting, I'd highly recommend going with a dedicated 10m gun like the FWB300s instead. I had mine out yesterday for the first time in quite a while and just marveling at how well those stocks fit the shooter, how amazing the trigger is, and generally what a cool gun they are. Looks like they're going for about $495 these days, at least for the rougher looking ones. Then you can redo the stock for your winter project.

As far as chopping the barrel, I'd move forward cautiously with that idea. I've read on the forums where a bunch of guys have chopped HW barrels and still had good accuracy. I sure wouldnt do it to this one though. The reason being, the barrel is slightly over-sized. Any pellets other than the hard boxed Crosman Premier almost fall through, until they hit the choke. If I cut the choke off this one, pellets pushed through the barrel wouldn't have any resistance. If I understand it correctly, a little resistance is necessary in a springer or the piston slams into the front end of the compression chamber, ruining piston seals. So, maybe push a pellet through the bore of whatever gun you're thinking about chopping the barrel on, just to make sure the only resistance isn't from the choke. The flip side of that, if you've got a loose bore but have a way to rechoke after the chop, than go for it. Cocking effort will go up with shorter barrel though, so keep that in mind.
 
I didn't mention that after I sold my R8 I bought a 300S. But before I did, I made this rear sight for the R8 in order to save the $60 it would have cost to buy the Weihrauch one. Surely the dumbest thing I ever did since it took months in my spare time. But it has been sitting in a box unused for 35 years now, and I thought it was time to find it a home. Plus I always wanted to make a stock anyway. The goal is to have a 10 meter rifle that is a little lighter than the 300S. I am thinking around 8 pounds.

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Your warning on chopping the barrel is exactly right. I took a chance and removed 4" from my R9 barrel. After I did that, I pushed a pellet through and was horrified to find that the bore was very tight where the barrel had been pressed into the receiver block, then opened up, but fortunately tightened up again just before the muzzle. I don't know if I had left some residual choke by "only" removing 4", or just got lucky. As you said, the pellets essentially went into free fall through that center length of the barrel. In any case, the rifle shoots JSBs in the 4.53 diameter very well. My 50 yard groups sitting are typically a little over an inch, but I usually manage at least one under an inch whenever I take it out.

Aren't the barrels now held in by a threaded nut of some kind? That might eliminate the tight breech from the press operation used on the old guns like my R9. It might also make it possible to remove the barrel and shorten it at the breech end, although it is probably still pinned to keep it from rotating. In any case I will check the bore diameters before cutting anything off. If I do shorten the barrel, I plan to sleeve full length like the TX system, so cocking won't be a problem.

Thanks very much for your reply, very helpful.
 
Very impressed by your machining of the diopter sight! Wow, just wow. 

I think the tight-at-both-ends "feature" is common with HW guns. This HW50s had it a little. I used some JB Bore Paste and way more strokes than I want to admit, focused on the breech block constriction, to make it so the choke at the crown end was tighter than the breech block constriction. I had the same problem, only much more severe, with the HW77k and it took many more strokes with very tight fitting jb-loaded patches to loosen it up. I actually took that HW77k action to work a couple nights when I was overnight and worked on it for hours, trying to loosen up the rearward constriction.

Making a stock would be a very cool project. I've thought that having a custom made laminate stock for this HW50s would be amazing, but I'm well-aware of my lack of abilities in that area. If you go through with the plan I'd sure like to see the final results at some point in the future.

Yes, the barrels on newish HW's have a threaded nut that can be seen when the barrel is broken open. It looks like a star nut, slightly recessed and larger in diameter than the breech seal. That's the extent of my personal knowledge about the threaded barrel configurations though. I've read forum talk of guys considering removing them to swap barrels but I have no personal knowledge of whether or not it is possible. 

Sleeveing with a longer than barrel sleeve, a la TX200 would also be a very cool feature. Again, I would love to see the final product, custom stock with a TX sleeved barrel and your machined diopter sight, sounds like an awesome project and a gun worthy of that amazing rear sight. 

(One final thought about the HW30 vs HW50 idea: I understand the barrel detent is a ball-type on the HW30 vs the chisel-type on the HW50. I remember when I was researching and comparing the two guns, that I found people making claims that the ball detent doesn't lock up as securely (repeatably) as the chisel-type.) 
 
I did the JB thing on the breech end of my R9 barrel too, but only once. I didn't seem to hurt and may have helped. Perhaps I should work on it some more.

I was a little worried about the ball detent on the 30S myself, especially if I am thinking about adding a shroud. But folks seem to rave about its accuracy, so maybe it is just a perception issue.

One of the guys I shoot with is a gunmaker and should be able to help me with the stock and also the shroud since I no longer have access to machining equipment other than some small bench top stuff. I do have a pretty complete woodworking shop in my basement though. Actually he said he would lend me a book, which might be a little different. First step is to locate and buy the lumber.