HW/Weihrauch hw50s and the ARH indoor plinkers kit

I recently put an ARH indoor plinkers kit into a relatively new .177 hw50s (with a Vortek seal). I've tried a lot of kits, and IMHO the PK is an ideal match for the 50.

This gun was purchased about one year ago. Right out of the box, it shot at about 12fpe. Accuracy was good, but not as good as my hw30s, my hw97k, or my pro sport. The 97k and PS are both tuned to 12fpe. The 50's shot cycle was more abrupt than my other guns.

Tinkering is part of the fun with spring guns, and I tried a couple different drop in kits. The Vortek kit was still too snappy and powerful, but the standard ARH kit gave power of 11fpe, with a better shot cycle and improved accuracy. With the standard ARH kit, the 50 became my primary woods hunting gun, and my second favorite plinker behind the hw30s. But there was still a small accuracy deficit versus my other springers. I did a bunch of benchrest shooting at 20 yards, and just could not get the 50 to group as tightly as my 30 or 97k.

When I compared the power to weight ratio of these guns, the 50 was notably higher than the others. All guns were weighed as is with scopes. They were 1.03 for the hw30s (7fpe/6.81lbs), 1.08 for the 97k (12fpe/11.1lbs), and 1.39 for the hw50s (11fpe/7.91lbs). At 12fpe, the ratio for the 50 would be 1.51.

I have experience with the ARH IPK in another 50, and was expecting something in the 9-9.5fpe range. After installing the new PK, power was 9.5fpe, and accuracy was noticeably better. In a feeble effort to get closer to 9fpe, I left the gun cocked for about 5 days. No change, still at 9.5fpe, so at some point I'm going to have to clip a coil off the spring. At 9fpe, the power to weight ratio would be 1.14.

For me, the lesson learned is that the 50 comes over-sprung from the factory. I'm not sure if the power to weight ratio is a legit metric for comparison, but I sure do notice an improvement in accuracy in guns with lower ratios. Interestingly, only the hw30s comes from Weihrauch with a power to weight ratio near 1.0, which may explain its popularity. I also suspect that the naming of the ARH IPK deters some buyers because they don't intent to plink indoors. For all-round use in a 50, I'd suggest giving it a try. For me, the 50 is a better overall package in the 9-9.5fpe range.

R
 
Thanks for posting. this is very timely information for me. Wednesday I have a 177 Hw50 being delivered. I bought it with the intent of knocking down the the power and putting peeps on it. I'm knocking the power down to decrease the cocking effort so I can enjoy shooting the gun more. I already have full power scoped 177 Hw50 that I love but wears me down on long sessions.

BTW I don't think lowering power necessarily improves the guns accuracy as much as it improves your accuracy with the gun. Meaning guns are easier to shoot accurately with reduced recoil. Some people can shoot the most unruly springers very well. Most of us cant. My 15fpe 177 HW95 will best my much heavier 13-14fpe 177 HW97 all the way to 50 yards. BUT ONLY when I'm having a real good day. My heavier 97 isn't naturally more accurate, it's just easier to shoot accurately. It's almost semantics but not really.

I'll test my rifle and see how hard it is to cock. If it's too stout I'll look into the Plinker's kit 9.5 fpe sounds darn good to me. What pellets are you using in your testing? Can you tell if it's dieseling?

Thanks
Ron
 
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The ARH plinker kit in my.177 HW50 is the way it should be. The only reason a kit makes a gun more accurate is that it is easier to shoot. Yes, it is overly sprung..I think it was getting 698 fps from it with the kit. Years ago, people knew that springers shooting over 800 fps were going to have a hard time. So, if someone tells me the springer is shooting great at say 850fps, I think it would be even better at 750fps....faster is not better.
 
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The ARH plinker kit in my.177 HW50 is the way it should be. The only reason a kit makes a gun more accurate is that it is easier to shoot. Yes, it is overly sprung..I think it was getting 698 fps from it with the kit. Years ago, people knew that springers shooting over 800 fps were going to have a hard time. So, if someone tells me the springer is shooting great at say 850fps, I think it would be even better at 750fps....faster is not better.
Its a complicated subject. It's got nothing to do with actual velocity. With normal weight pellets, 850 fps in 177 is ~13.5 fpe but 750 in 22 is ~18 fpe. Because of the swept volume required to make 18 fpe the 22 will have more recoil energy and thus be harder to shoot.

There's dwell time in the barrel as well. A faster pellet leaves the barrel quicker and is subjected to less harmonics. Reducing harmonic influences increases accuracy. Its why you see shortened and sleeved barrels on target rifles. A gun isn't better slower its just easier to use.
 
Thanks for posting. this is very timely information for me. Wednesday I have a 177 Hw50 being delivered. I bought it with the intent of knocking down the the power and putting peeps on it. I'm knocking the power down to decrease the cocking effort so I can enjoy shooting the gun more. I already have full power scoped 177 Hw50 that I love but wears me down on long sessions.

BTW I don't think lowering power necessarily improves the guns accuracy as much as it improves your accuracy with the gun. Meaning guns are easier to shoot accurately with reduced recoil. Some people can shoot the most unruly springers very well. Most of us cant. My 15fpe 177 HW95 will best my much heavier 13-14fpe 177 HW97 all the way to 50 yards. BUT ONLY when I'm having a real good day. My heavier 97 isn't naturally more accurate, it's just easier to shoot accurately. It's almost semantics but not really.

I'll test my rifle and see how hard it is to cock. If it's too stout I'll look into the Plinker's kit 9.5 fpe sounds darn good to me. What pellets are you using in your testing? Can you tell if it's dieseling?

Thanks
Ron
All this was done with AA 8.4g pellets. And I would agree that reducing power does not change inherent accuracy, it just makes it easier to realize. But I'm a somewhat lazy shooter, and easier accuracy is more fun. No dieseling, and I used ultimox 226 to lube.
R
 
I recently put an ARH indoor plinkers kit into a relatively new .177 hw50s (with a Vortek seal). I've tried a lot of kits, and IMHO the PK is an ideal match for the 50.

This gun was purchased about one year ago. Right out of the box, it shot at about 12fpe. Accuracy was good, but not as good as my hw30s, my hw97k, or my pro sport. The 97k and PS are both tuned to 12fpe. The 50's shot cycle was more abrupt than my other guns.

Tinkering is part of the fun with spring guns, and I tried a couple different drop in kits. The Vortek kit was still too snappy and powerful, but the standard ARH kit gave power of 11fpe, with a better shot cycle and improved accuracy. With the standard ARH kit, the 50 became my primary woods hunting gun, and my second favorite plinker behind the hw30s. But there was still a small accuracy deficit versus my other springers. I did a bunch of benchrest shooting at 20 yards, and just could not get the 50 to group as tightly as my 30 or 97k.

When I compared the power to weight ratio of these guns, the 50 was notably higher than the others. All guns were weighed as is with scopes. They were 1.03 for the hw30s (7fpe/6.81lbs), 1.08 for the 97k (12fpe/11.1lbs), and 1.39 for the hw50s (11fpe/7.91lbs). At 12fpe, the ratio for the 50 would be 1.51.

I have experience with the ARH IPK in another 50, and was expecting something in the 9-9.5fpe range. After installing the new PK, power was 9.5fpe, and accuracy was noticeably better. In a feeble effort to get closer to 9fpe, I left the gun cocked for about 5 days. No change, still at 9.5fpe, so at some point I'm going to have to clip a coil off the spring. At 9fpe, the power to weight ratio would be 1.14.

For me, the lesson learned is that the 50 comes over-sprung from the factory. I'm not sure if the power to weight ratio is a legit metric for comparison, but I sure do notice an improvement in accuracy in guns with lower ratios. Interestingly, only the hw30s comes from Weihrauch with a power to weight ratio near 1.0, which may explain its popularity. I also suspect that the naming of the ARH IPK deters some buyers because they don't intent to plink indoors. For all-round use in a 50, I'd suggest giving it a try. For me, the 50 is a better overall package in the 9-9.5fpe range.

R
sorry but a stock 97 power is higher then 12fpe , so that ratio wouldn't be 1.08 but about 1.35
a low powerd springer is just easier to shoot , hense the better accurancy you write about
 
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Only people make things complicated. Only people pull the trigger; we, as humans, can overcome those equations.by doing what needs to be done.:unsure::ROFLMAO:
Certainly true. My point was full power guns can be just as accurate in the right hands. There was a guy back in NY that could shoot any springer I handed him as good as I could on my best day. Knocking the power down does make it easier for regular people like me to shoot accurately.

For my purposes which include occasional pesting I like running them at or close to full power. Would I be more accurate knocking them down? Maybe? But I'm pretty happy with their accuracy where they are. Different strokes for different folks.

Be well
Ron
 
sorry but a stock 97 power is higher then 12fpe , so that ratio wouldn't be 1.08 but about 1.35
a low powerd springer is just easier to shoot , hense the better accurancy you write about
Yep, my 97 is tuned down from original. The hw30s is probably the only gun produced with a close to 1.0 ratio. Again, that may partly explain its popularity.
R
 
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