HW35E with Weihrauch Diopter

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Bear-of-Grayling

Bear-of-Grayling

Member
Dec 19, 2021
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Alabama, United States
HW35E in .22 caliber. The new checkered version. Equipped with a Weihrauch diopter. Came from Krale a month or so ago. Waiting on Tom at Vortek to get the 35 tune kits back in stock. Will not use these Weihrauch’s with the jointed lever until it has a kit with a sleeve. The sleeve eliminates the possibility of the lever galling into the receiver. Looking forward to working with this 35. Considering the weight and caliber, anticipating a buttery smooth firing cycle.

Update: Going to use this 35 with the factory spring and see if indeed Weihrauch has addressed the issue of the two piece lever galling the receiver. Will keep this forum updated.

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Last I knew Weihrauch does insert a piece of Delrin in the lever. The issue of the spring taking a negative set and putting lateral pressure on the interior of the piston hasn’t been corrected though. When the cocking lever is receiving the pressure from the piston the joint in the two piece lever binds and fails. The Delrin insert will stop the lever from galling into the receiver but the cocking itself is no longer smooth and nice. The pressure on the Delrin from the binding joint can be felt in the cocking. Also when first breaking the barrel and then starting to cock the barrel, one can hear a “click”, that would be the joint binding, pulling the joint away from the receiver until it lets loose and snaps back to the the receiver. That’s the click heard. That’s the first warning to stop and install a kit with a sleeve. I just do not understand why Weihrauch does not install a sleeve to begin with. The wonderful gentle cocking cycle is gone when that joint in the lever starts binding. Anyone with an older model that doesn’t have the Delrin insert should take notice to stop shooting when the “click“ is heard. The galling is next.
 
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Last I knew Weihrauch does insert a piece of Delrin in the lever. The issue of the spring taking a negative set and putting lateral pressure on the interior of the piston hasn’t been corrected though. When the cocking lever is receiving the pressure from the piston the joint in the two piece lever binds and fails. The Delrin insert will stop the lever from galling into the receiver but the cocking itself is no longer smooth and nice. The pressure on the Delrin from the binding joint can be felt in the cocking. Also when first breaking the barrel and then starting to cock the barrel, one can hear a “click”, that would be the joint binding, pulling the joint away from the receiver until it lets loose and snaps back to the the receiver. That’s the click heard. That’s the first warning to stop and install a kit with a sleeve. I just do not understand why Weihrauch does not install a sleeve to begin with. The wonderful gentle cocking cycle is gone when that joint in the lever starts binding. Anyone with an older model that doesn’t have the Delrin insert should take notice to stop shooting when the “click“ is heard. The galling is next.
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You may be in for a mess when you realize how soft the steel is on the Vortek kits sleeve. I don't think it's going to fix your problem like you are expecting. Also, the cocking effort will be higher than it would be with a larger diameter spring that would be allowed by a typical kit. 

The last zillion HW35s built for the last 4-5 decades worked without a sleeve or Vortek "saving" them. 

The click has nothing to do with binding, it's simply the way the lever works. Some have been clicking for 50 years without issue. 

Galling issues happen, I don't dispute that. But a soft-as-cheese steel sleeve isn't going to the be the right fix for a problem that likely wont exist anyway. And would be alleviated by using a normal kit with an easier cocking spring. 

Either way, nice gun and it looks great. Let us know how you do with the accuracy. 
 
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Thumper. You may be correct about the metal sleeves. Only used the thicker plastic sleeves that Vortek made. Hope they still are available. If the clicking is just part of the cocking behavior then why when the gun is new it doesn’t click. After a few tins of pellets the clicking starts and shortly after that the galling starts. Was adding in the Delrin inserts in the lever over 20 years ago. Long before Weihrauch started doing it. Once the receiver is galled and rough and the Delrin is running across that surface it’s like it’s being ran across a file. Even after the receiver is sanded and smoothed out you can feel that insert rubbing on the receiver. Been addressing the issue for over 30 years. The heavy walled plastic sleeve that Tom at Vortek used to make keeps the spring straight or at least contained so as not to put pressure on the piston wall. It’s been the final solution for me.

To your point however, some springs may never take a negative set and hence never have an issue.

And thank you everyone for the nice comments.
 
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Thumper. You may be correct about the metal sleeves. I’ve only used the thicker plastic sleeves that Vortek made. I hope that they still are available. If the clicking is just part of the cocking behavior then why when the gun is new it doesn’t click. After a few tins of pellets the clicking starts and shortly after that the galling starts. I was putting in the Delrin inserts in the lever over 20 years ago. Long before Weihrauch started doing it. Once the receiver is galled and rough and the Delrin is running across that surface it’s like it’s being ran across a file. Even after the receiver is sanded and smoothed out you can feel that insert rubbing on the receiver. I’ve been addressing the issue for over 30 years. The heavy walled plastic sleeve that Tom at Vortek used to make keeps the spring straight or at least contained so as not to put pressure on the piston wall. It’s been the final solution I’ve come to realize.

To your point however, some springs may never take a negative set and hence never have an issue.

And thank you everyone for the nice comments.
Click to expand...

It doesn't click at first because the joint in the lever is tight. It breaks in and loosens with use, then begins to click. The lack of resistance in the linkage there is what allows the lever to move freely enough to click once its under load. It clicks down so the force is exerted straight and parallel to the receiver.

I have an HW50S that I have shot and played with for over 10 years. The Vortek kit I put in it back then didn't fix a thing, it still galled and ate itself, mostly due to the little wheel seizing up from its axle pin bending. If it weren't for the increased cocking effort from the junky Vortek kit, it may not have failed so quick. I learned a little something about spring sizes and properties after that. The HW50S is the worst offender, since it has a fairly high cocking effort right out of the box. 

Removing the wheel and installing a UHMW insert in the arm and ARH spring was all it needed. Still doesn't have a sleeve, and has been fine for a decade. And the insert doesn't dig in to the receiver either. 

If it works for you, keep it up. But be warned, that's some really cheesy steel on the new Vortek kits. And it's not slick and somewhat self lubricating like the old plastic ones were. 
 
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Thumper. I’m not familiar with the UHMW insert or the ARH spring. Could you please enlighten me? I’m not liking the metal insert you are talking about. If I can’t get what I have experience with then I will explore every option available. Thank you. Dan
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It's a strip of square stock plastic that I milled to fit in the lever. Same concept and function as the Maccari insert, just solid and a slightly harder and slicker material. 

I think I got the strip of material from McMaster Carr for cheap. 

The spring is just some universal spring that I ordered from ARH and cut down and made a guide for. It's mainspring for the powerplant, nothing related to the cocking lever setup. I could have worded my post better, sorry!
 
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Love the sight, and WOW you definitely won the wood lottery! Stunning rifle.

Without inflicting my opinion of the much-discussed "galling" issue on anyone, I will mention the flip side of the two-piece cocking linkage: elimination of a long "tuning fork" slot under the fore end, and replacement of two small fore end side screws with a solid bolt in a steel seat. It's a more expensive way to build a rifle, and adds to the solid handling, accuracy, and great looks of these designs.
 
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Last I knew Weihrauch does insert a piece of Delrin in the lever. The issue of the spring taking a negative set and putting lateral pressure on the interior of the piston hasn’t been corrected though. When the cocking lever is receiving the pressure from the piston the joint in the two piece lever binds and fails. The Delrin insert will stop the lever from galling into the receiver but the cocking itself is no longer smooth and nice. The pressure on the Delrin from the binding joint can be felt in the cocking. Also when first breaking the barrel and then starting to cock the barrel, one can hear a “click”, that would be the joint binding, pulling the joint away from the receiver until it lets loose and snaps back to the the receiver. That’s the click heard. That’s the first warning to stop and install a kit with a sleeve. I just do not understand why Weihrauch does not install a sleeve to begin with. The wonderful gentle cocking cycle is gone when that joint in the lever starts binding. Anyone with an older model that doesn’t have the Delrin insert should take notice to stop shooting when the “click“ is heard. The galling is next.
Click to expand...

Interesting! Last time I read about the whole galling and binding issues, it was said that if the area where the delrin insert and the spring are located is lubed up from time to time, then there won't ever be an issue.
 
Upvote 0
Last I knew Weihrauch does insert a piece of Delrin in the lever. The issue of the spring taking a negative set and putting lateral pressure on the interior of the piston hasn’t been corrected though. When the cocking lever is receiving the pressure from the piston the joint in the two piece lever binds and fails. The Delrin insert will stop the lever from galling into the receiver but the cocking itself is no longer smooth and nice. The pressure on the Delrin from the binding joint can be felt in the cocking. Also when first breaking the barrel and then starting to cock the barrel, one can hear a “click”, that would be the joint binding, pulling the joint away from the receiver until it lets loose and snaps back to the the receiver. That’s the click heard. That’s the first warning to stop and install a kit with a sleeve. I just do not understand why Weihrauch does not install a sleeve to begin with. The wonderful gentle cocking cycle is gone when that joint in the lever starts binding. Anyone with an older model that doesn’t have the Delrin insert should take notice to stop shooting when the “click“ is heard. The galling is next.
Click to expand...

Interesting! Last time I read about the whole galling and binding issues, it was said that if the area where the delrin insert and the spring are located is lubed up from time to time, then there won't ever be an issue.
Click to expand...

That’s correct. There won’t be any galling anymore. The cocking stroke may not be as soft and smooth as it once was though. Also when undo pressure is placed on the pivot joints then inevitably wear will occur. Also think that Weihrauch is producing a far superior spring guide than the old stamped metal one was. Much closer tolerances. That certainly will aid in the spring staying straight. If one feels the cocking stroke changing then get the gun looked at. However, the damage to the receiver has been eliminated with the insert. Absolutely.

This HW35 is NOT going to get a tune kit. Will shoot it and see if indeed Weihrauch has addressed ALL the issues of the old. Maybe they have with the Delrin insert and the longer, tighter spring guide. Would like to caution anyone who have an older model without the insert and the old metal spring guide to get the proper work done on it before any damage occurs. Cannot go backwards.
 
Upvote 0
Last I knew Weihrauch does insert a piece of Delrin in the lever. The issue of the spring taking a negative set and putting lateral pressure on the interior of the piston hasn’t been corrected though. When the cocking lever is receiving the pressure from the piston the joint in the two piece lever binds and fails. The Delrin insert will stop the lever from galling into the receiver but the cocking itself is no longer smooth and nice. The pressure on the Delrin from the binding joint can be felt in the cocking. Also when first breaking the barrel and then starting to cock the barrel, one can hear a “click”, that would be the joint binding, pulling the joint away from the receiver until it lets loose and snaps back to the the receiver. That’s the click heard. That’s the first warning to stop and install a kit with a sleeve. I just do not understand why Weihrauch does not install a sleeve to begin with. The wonderful gentle cocking cycle is gone when that joint in the lever starts binding. Anyone with an older model that doesn’t have the Delrin insert should take notice to stop shooting when the “click“ is heard. The galling is next.
Click to expand...

Interesting! Last time I read about the whole galling and binding issues, it was said that if the area where the delrin insert and the spring are located is lubed up from time to time, then there won't ever be an issue.
Click to expand...

That’s correct. There won’t be any galling anymore. The cocking stroke may not be as soft and smooth as it once was though. Also when undo pressure is placed on the pivot joints then inevitably wear will occur. I also think that Weihrauch is producing a far superior spring guide than the old stamped metal one was. Much closer tolerances. That certainly will aid in the spring staying straight. If one feels the cocking stroke changing then get the gun looked at. However, the damage to the receiver has been eliminated with the insert. Absolutely.

This HW35 is NOT going to get a tune kit. I will shoot it and see if indeed Weihrauch has addressed ALL the issues of the old. I think they have with the Delrin insert and the longer, tighter spring guide. I would like to caution anyone who have an older model without the insert and the old metal spring guide to get the proper work done on it before any damage occurs. Cannot go backwards.
Click to expand...

I see!! Tbh the whole galling and binding issue is the only thing that makes me worry a bit in the context of getting either a 35 or a 50.
 
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