Hello, I am new to the forum. I live in Northwestern Metro Atlanta, getting into field target and hunting. I plan to go to Pyramid Air competition for the first time this year. I collect springers and vintage air guns. I have a HW35E 177 cal with a vortex spring. Last year I shot nearly one hole 3 shot groups at 15 yards. Now geting 1" - 1.5" groups with mixtures of clusters and vertical stringing with 5 kinds of pellets like JSB 10.34, H&N Field Trophy (4.50,4.51 and 4.52) and RWS match. None any good and hard to tell which one is best. Before this trouble, I did a dumb thing and overtightened the barrel pivot screw as tight as I good get it with a big screwdriver. I talked to Airguns of Arizona technician. They said the barrel pivolt screw should be just over tight like no more than 15 lbs torque or less. He was not sure on the manufacturer spec for that. I loosened it to 15lbs and then when down to 8 lbs. Some improvement on vertical stringing but groups still over 1 inch. Air guns of Arizona said my breach seal maybe bad but it looks Ok to me. Gun has about 250 round thru it so far. Tried 2 different scopes and same result. However it shoots good groups with iron sights. Have not dropped it, nor mishandled it and was always stored in case in a dehumidified room. I tried different artillery holds with no good results. Then shot my FWB 124D and RWS 350 and got excellent accuracy so do not think it is my shooting method. As stated, I shot it good last year. Another thing is when the problem started after the overtightening, I had to shim the scope as it shot like 3-4 inches low at 15 yard. Before it was zeroed at that range. I already have a UTG mount to correct barrel droop (10.1" I believe) from last year but still needed shims. Ready to send into Airguns of Arizona for repair. Thought I would post here first if any ideas to try. Also since airgun is out of warranty, if somebody knows a good reasonable place to send it instead of Airguns of Arizona.
HW35E Accuracy change from excellent to terrible.
- Thread starter JDR
- Start date
Have you checked the piston seal? HW factory piston seals tend to burn up pretty quick lately.
Also when you say "15lbs" you mean inlbs right?
Do you have a picture of the groups handy?
Also when you say "15lbs" you mean inlbs right?
Do you have a picture of the groups handy?
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Well, I am certainly not an expert but I can take some guesses for free, right?
First, I don't think the pivot screw would do anything to affect accuracy by being overly tight. You could have applied 200ftlbs or 5 and it would make no difference as far as accuracy. You just said it shoots great with irons, so it's not a breech or piston seal issue. My guesses would be along the lines of A) Your scopes are junk. Did you try the same glass on your 124? B) The action screws are loose, or C) The weight of the scope and mount affects the harmonics of the whole package, concerning weight, balance and hold of the rifle
I have a 35e also. With irons your head is lower on the stock. Maybe your hold is different and you don't realize it?
Ironically I have a bit of the same going. My Hw90 shoots great with irons. So far I can't get a good group using glass. The irons are harder to use than on the 35e though!
First, I don't think the pivot screw would do anything to affect accuracy by being overly tight. You could have applied 200ftlbs or 5 and it would make no difference as far as accuracy. You just said it shoots great with irons, so it's not a breech or piston seal issue. My guesses would be along the lines of A) Your scopes are junk. Did you try the same glass on your 124? B) The action screws are loose, or C) The weight of the scope and mount affects the harmonics of the whole package, concerning weight, balance and hold of the rifle
I have a 35e also. With irons your head is lower on the stock. Maybe your hold is different and you don't realize it?
Ironically I have a bit of the same going. My Hw90 shoots great with irons. So far I can't get a good group using glass. The irons are harder to use than on the 35e though!
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"talked to Airguns of Arizona technician. They said the barrel pivolt screw should be just over tight like no more than 15 lbs torque or less. He was not sure on the manufacturer spec for that. "
Being the hw service and warranty, distribution people that dont look too good on them .. pretty sad . Wow!
That pivot bolt i just do it by feel . I like ot tight enugh it swings easy but dont just fall on its own weight. I guess thats another experience thing.. idk.
"Ready to send into Airguns of Arizona for repair. ".
Why? The guy just told you he dont know jack sheet..
I my opinion ....
Learn to do it yourself.. take it down , clean it up,. Inspect the spring and seal , if looks ok get some moly paste and relube it properly , put it together , put a little dab of loctite on the stock screws , tighten them to that chart above ( that also i do more by feel) test your work.
Also you say it shoots on irons just fine then its a optics / mounting issue. . if a gun issue then irons or scope would give you same bad results. (Opinion)
Jokes aside that aoa guy dont know cause its a experience fell. Everyone got a opinion on that pivot bolt..
Being the hw service and warranty, distribution people that dont look too good on them .. pretty sad . Wow!
That pivot bolt i just do it by feel . I like ot tight enugh it swings easy but dont just fall on its own weight. I guess thats another experience thing.. idk.
"Ready to send into Airguns of Arizona for repair. ".
Why? The guy just told you he dont know jack sheet..
I my opinion ....
Learn to do it yourself.. take it down , clean it up,. Inspect the spring and seal , if looks ok get some moly paste and relube it properly , put it together , put a little dab of loctite on the stock screws , tighten them to that chart above ( that also i do more by feel) test your work.
Also you say it shoots on irons just fine then its a optics / mounting issue. . if a gun issue then irons or scope would give you same bad results. (Opinion)
Jokes aside that aoa guy dont know cause its a experience fell. Everyone got a opinion on that pivot bolt..
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If it shoots well at that distance with irons then it’s not the gun. Scope, mount, or rail. Inspect the rail for damage. Try a different mount. Is that mount adjustable? Sometimes those can have a little wiggle.
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I’m not sure what’s going on but AOA can get that droop out for you. Running it for a while with lots of elevation adjustment can damage the scope.
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Just to add .. do you got a coronagraph to check the shot consistency? That may help tell you if it a spring/ seal issue.
I guess im lucky not to jave a hw /r with any droop.. if i did its rma City..
This for sure..
Lol
I guess im lucky not to jave a hw /r with any droop.. if i did its rma City..
This for sure..
Lol
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There is a reason the rear sights are mounted on the barrel on a break barrel springer. That way the sights will line up the same regardless of where the barrel lands when shut. If your tension on the barrel lug is to loose, with a scope it can be off a small amount and make a difference, The breech seal can also be a culprit for consistent lockup. i forgot that the 35 has a lock system, not sure if that would totally solve any lockup issues or not, good luck.
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Been a lot pointed out here, all possibilities that are worth consideration, the one that hasn't been mentioned is your vision, have you had your eye's checked lately? It may sound crazy but our vision deteriorates with time, vision may not be the whole problem but it may be compounding the problem....just sayin'
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Just seems when you store a air gun for a extended time that does more harm then shooting it periodically or everyday.
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You can fix it yourself and learn or spend money sending it off to folks to fix it for you. You need a chrono tovtest for consistancy period... You adjust the pivot bolt by removing it, cleaning all surfaces, add a small amount of moly lube to all surfaces abd reassemble. The bolt it tightened until the barrel will not fall under its own weight after the rifle is cocked!! If you shake it, the barrel should fall slowly...no torquing the screw!! Chance are good that your svope is probably junk, in most cases cheaper scopes just don't last unless the springer is super smooth. If yours is factory fresh it is not super smooth !! Try another known GOOD scope. Storing your gun for long periods of time can cause temporary issues with accumulating excess lube gathering around the seal but normally goes away after a few shots. Ongoing accuracy issues are caused by bad spring, seal, bad case of pellets or cheap quality scopes. You can take the advice of someone with 40 years of springer experience or send it off and keep spending your hard earned money...your call....
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Reading some on the 35 some guys replacing the detent latch i guess it can ware the chisel or maybe cause enough bend to cause droop .. then you tightened the pivot bolt that tight and i assume that could of caused added stress on that and bent it forcing it heavy handed closed .. also check where it locks on the receiver for any ware or damage in that spot..
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If your 35 is a vintage model, you could be experiencing a problem they once had. The solder joint between the jaws and receiver could be leaking. If the 35 is a newer one then (barring loose screws, bad scope or mount) the problem is probably head placement on the stock. The drop in the comb is difficult to overcome consistently. I find this cheek pad/riser helpful with this type of stock. It has different inserts to adjust for height.
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Thanks for all the replies. A lot of things to try. This is what I did to my 177 cal HW 35E with vortex spring before shooting it again.
1. Cleaned the barrel, it was dirty.
2. Tightened trigger guard and front screws. They were loose.
3. Loosened barrel pivot screw and re-tightened so it did not drop by gravity and only if I shook it.
4. I could visibly see barrel droop. On all the scopes I tried, I would have to shim the scope and it already has a UTG Picanny mount with substantial barrel droop.
5. Tried 3 scopes and set elevation at mid range. Tightened all screws on scope and mount to manf. torque specs. All groups vertical stringed even at 10 yards. I took off a UTG 16 power scope off my RWS 350 that shot tight groups on that gun yesterday and still got vertical stringing and some scatter on the HW 35E at 10 yards. Groups 1 -2 inches at 10 yards. Convinced the scope is not a problem.
6. Adjusted trigger pull from 2 lbs to about 10 oz.
7. Checked breech seal. Looks good, clean and uniform with no visible damage and sticks out uniformly from the gun.
8. Shot the gun without a scope shooting a 5 shot group at 10 yards. Could not see well but all shots touching so seeing good enough and think my hold is good because I shoot other springers decently.
10. As I said, last year it was shooting close to 3 shot overlapping clover leafed groups at 25 yards.
Puzzling why it shoots great with iron sights but so poorly with a high powered scope.
Gun vertically stringed every group and also scattered some but not as much as vertical stringing. One big thing I noticed that the gun without a scope rattled like something loose inside. Rattled while cocked or uncocked. It does have a vortex spring so was worked on by the dealer before I bought it. Neither my RWS 350 or FWB 124D rattled. Afraid I will have to send it in. I dare not work on it as I screwed up a simple reseal job on my 761XL. Besides loosing parts and not putting it together correctly, I would probably scratch it some. Any insight what might be wrong? Any recommendations on a reasonable repair shot that turns out excellent quality work? I will have the barrel droop fixed during the repair. Thanks in advance for any replies.
1. Cleaned the barrel, it was dirty.
2. Tightened trigger guard and front screws. They were loose.
3. Loosened barrel pivot screw and re-tightened so it did not drop by gravity and only if I shook it.
4. I could visibly see barrel droop. On all the scopes I tried, I would have to shim the scope and it already has a UTG Picanny mount with substantial barrel droop.
5. Tried 3 scopes and set elevation at mid range. Tightened all screws on scope and mount to manf. torque specs. All groups vertical stringed even at 10 yards. I took off a UTG 16 power scope off my RWS 350 that shot tight groups on that gun yesterday and still got vertical stringing and some scatter on the HW 35E at 10 yards. Groups 1 -2 inches at 10 yards. Convinced the scope is not a problem.
6. Adjusted trigger pull from 2 lbs to about 10 oz.
7. Checked breech seal. Looks good, clean and uniform with no visible damage and sticks out uniformly from the gun.
8. Shot the gun without a scope shooting a 5 shot group at 10 yards. Could not see well but all shots touching so seeing good enough and think my hold is good because I shoot other springers decently.
10. As I said, last year it was shooting close to 3 shot overlapping clover leafed groups at 25 yards.
Puzzling why it shoots great with iron sights but so poorly with a high powered scope.
Gun vertically stringed every group and also scattered some but not as much as vertical stringing. One big thing I noticed that the gun without a scope rattled like something loose inside. Rattled while cocked or uncocked. It does have a vortex spring so was worked on by the dealer before I bought it. Neither my RWS 350 or FWB 124D rattled. Afraid I will have to send it in. I dare not work on it as I screwed up a simple reseal job on my 761XL. Besides loosing parts and not putting it together correctly, I would probably scratch it some. Any insight what might be wrong? Any recommendations on a reasonable repair shot that turns out excellent quality work? I will have the barrel droop fixed during the repair. Thanks in advance for any replies.
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How bout a picture showing that droop..
Id figure to truly "fix" the droop is replace the barrel with one that in hope the breech block is cut / machined more true to the receiver at lockup. Or like i ssid above that detent is bent or the angles of the chisle are wrong / bad angles . Or the spot where the detent chisle locks on the receiver is worn or that cut in it . Also the detent latch spring weak not not setting the detent angle high enugh up the slope so to say .
Ya, some pics could be worth a 1000 words.. still just blind guessing it all.
Still if it groups great on irons should on optics out side what been pointed out .
Droop stressing retical adjustmeny, bad mount or mounting, scope guts rattled / cant hold zero.. or all combined.
I guess someone already suggested the mount like them rws/diana guys use barrel droop compensation mounts or add on rail.
shimming the scope at the tube / in the rings saddle can damage the scope tube
Id figure to truly "fix" the droop is replace the barrel with one that in hope the breech block is cut / machined more true to the receiver at lockup. Or like i ssid above that detent is bent or the angles of the chisle are wrong / bad angles . Or the spot where the detent chisle locks on the receiver is worn or that cut in it . Also the detent latch spring weak not not setting the detent angle high enugh up the slope so to say .
Ya, some pics could be worth a 1000 words.. still just blind guessing it all.
Still if it groups great on irons should on optics out side what been pointed out .
Droop stressing retical adjustmeny, bad mount or mounting, scope guts rattled / cant hold zero.. or all combined.
I guess someone already suggested the mount like them rws/diana guys use barrel droop compensation mounts or add on rail.
shimming the scope at the tube / in the rings saddle can damage the scope tube
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The other option for barrel droop correction is, (and I’m not an advocate of) is to bend the barrel. Many including Tom Gaylord claim it is perfectly fine and a good solution to barrel droop. I would probably try it if buying a new barrel was my only other option. What’s to lose at that point?
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True. As long as you dont kink it or bulge it you can bend it up like a silly straw . .Build a bender . Nced shows a nice simple one in some threads at gta
Heres a basic one from him here
I bent the barrel. Help !
I think I accidentally bent the barrel of Hatsan 135. Maybe I did not put my full strength while cocking the barrel, so it slammed back before being fully cocked. Now it shoots super high. SO, how to fix it? Thank you !
www.airgunnation.com Or a tad more fancy
.
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