HW35E Accuracy change from excellent to terrible.

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Thanks for the replies but I am cannot do fine work. What bothers me is I set it up originally with a UTG barrel drooping mount and it shot great. Now it shooting way lows and vertical stringing with the same setup. Barrel bending scares me plus why if no rough handling is it suddenly shooting low. Should not need the barrel bent if not a problem before. Patience wearing thin. Looking at dropping it off at Airgunwerks and letting David Slade look at it. Not too far out of my way when I go to Indiana. If too expensive to repair, may sell it (will disclose scope problem) cheap or just keep it and use iron sights. Problem is my eyes too bad to take full advantage of the gun with iron sights unless I scope it so probably get rid of it even though nearly brand new with low round count. Don't know if I will ever buy another break barrel again. Sucks when you pay so much for a gun. Never thought I would need an extended warranty. Thanks again.
 
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"Now it shooting way lows and vertical stringing with the same setup"

Well with that. Id need to use a crony and run some shot strings snd check the fps consistenticy . But you say shoots fine and tight groups on irons and i got to assume using the same yardage.

With that i got to assume its a mounting or optics issue . At 20y irons or scope should group near same. If there was the one thing thats undependable on a springer is optics and its mounting.

Mounts tend to slip and scopes spit there bits. Some sooner or later. We all hope on the later ..

You can check my shot threads here and see i rarely use optics i prefer irons.. i just nipped the scope on a springer in the bud... Lol. Spend that replacement scope money on mo' pellets..

Scope shift and barrel droop...two common problems (March 2008)

Scope shift is the No. 1 problem shooters have with scopes. It's also called point-of-impact (POI) shift. There are several reasons for this and none of them are the scope's fault. They're problems that plague mostly new scope users, but they can also crop up when a veteran shooter starts using...
www.pyramydair.com www.pyramydair.com
 
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Did you ever try another mount? Doesn’t matter if it’s droop compensated or not. You just want to see if it will hit the same spot consistently. If it does, and you can’t when using UTG mount then there could be a problem with the mount. It happens. And if it’s an 11 mm to Pic rail adapter you’ve introduced two possible places for error, either at the rifle’s rail or with the Pic rings.
 
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Something is probably wrong with the lock up. The irons are all mounted on the same plane. You'll find any reciever mounted sight whether it be peeps or scope will be inaccurate because they are mounted on a different plane than the front sight.
I'd normally be able to look at it and fix it but I'm moving and my shop and tools are split between my NY and AR homes.

Depending on how you cleaned the barrel it can take a hundred shots to reseason the barrel and print well. That said unless your shooting trash pellets all shots should be touching or very close to it at ten yards.

I'm guessing you don't have a chronograph? Chronograph numbers can be very helpful.
 
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Mycapt65 said:
Something is probably wrong with the lock up. The irons are all mounted on the same plane. You'll find any reciever mounted sight whether it be peeps or scope will be inaccurate because they are mounted on a different plane than the front sight.
I'd normally be able to look at it and fix it but I'm moving and my shop and tools are split between my NY and AR homes.

Depending on how you cleaned the barrel it can take a hundred shots to reseason the barrel and print well. That said unless your shooting trash pellets all shots should be touching or very close to it at ten yards.

I'm guessing you don't have a chronograph? Chronograph numbers can be very helpful.
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You might be into something. Might have affected it when the pivot bolt was torqued so tightly. Need to put a peep on it and see what it does ha ha.
 
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beerthief said:
are you sure it is not the crown ? a very very small imperfection can be devastating on POI and a very easy to do ding .
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Good thought, but if it shot well before then the crown would have had to be damaged since. It sounds like a cracked piston seal or if an early 35, the weld issue they once had.
edit. Probably should stop shooting it. If the seal is breaking up it would explain the accuracy going haywire.
 
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JDR said:
Thanks for all the replies. A lot of things to try. This is what I did to my 177 cal HW 35E with vortex spring before shooting it again.

1. Cleaned the barrel, it was dirty.
2. Tightened trigger guard and front screws. They were loose.
3. Loosened barrel pivot screw and re-tightened so it did not drop by gravity and only if I shook it.
4. I could visibly see barrel droop. On all the scopes I tried, I would have to shim the scope and it already has a UTG Picanny mount with substantial barrel droop.
5. Tried 3 scopes and set elevation at mid range. Tightened all screws on scope and mount to manf. torque specs. All groups vertical stringed even at 10 yards. I took off a UTG 16 power scope off my RWS 350 that shot tight groups on that gun yesterday and still got vertical stringing and some scatter on the HW 35E at 10 yards. Groups 1 -2 inches at 10 yards. Convinced the scope is not a problem.
6. Adjusted trigger pull from 2 lbs to about 10 oz.
7. Checked breech seal. Looks good, clean and uniform with no visible damage and sticks out uniformly from the gun.
8. Shot the gun without a scope shooting a 5 shot group at 10 yards. Could not see well but all shots touching so seeing good enough and think my hold is good because I shoot other springers decently.
10. As I said, last year it was shooting close to 3 shot overlapping clover leafed groups at 25 yards.

Puzzling why it shoots great with iron sights but so poorly with a high powered scope.


Gun vertically stringed every group and also scattered some but not as much as vertical stringing. One big thing I noticed that the gun without a scope rattled like something loose inside. Rattled while cocked or uncocked. It does have a vortex spring so was worked on by the dealer before I bought it. Neither my RWS 350 or FWB 124D rattled. Afraid I will have to send it in. I dare not work on it as I screwed up a simple reseal job on my 761XL. Besides loosing parts and not putting it together correctly, I would probably scratch it some. Any insight what might be wrong? Any recommendations on a reasonable repair shot that turns out excellent quality work? I will have the barrel droop fixed during the repair. Thanks in advance for any replies.
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Have you run it over a chrony yet? The most common problems for accuracy in springers is loose stock screws and too much barrel droop. The rattling inside is a bit concerning, possible a broken spring or guide and yes vortek springs will break. You need to see how much power it's producing and go from there, maybe go ahead and pull the spring to see what's going on inside. The droop might not be as bad as you think if the spring is broken. If it is, it can be taken out very easily with a little bending, you cannot see the difference by looking at it.
 
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Ok, ran the chrony with JSB Exact 10.34 gr at 5 yards.

1. 687 fps
2. 686 fps
3. 688 fps
4. 697 fps
5. 695 fps


Below is 5 shot group with UTG bugbuster 3x12 set at mid range elevation and UTG Piccany droop mount ( I checked the mount screws and scope rings, all torqued down good and no movement. Do not have a scope to try on the dovetail but do not think the mount is the problem.). Gun had a vortex spring installed when purchased. Yardage was 10 yards with JSB Exact 10.34 gr. Got 1" group that was 5" low. I think, from some of the comments, the problem is I may have over-tightend the pivot bolt and bent the forks holding the barrel thus adding a little variability in the lockup. Is it possible to do that with a screwdriver? The forks are very thick. Maybe I destroyed the shims. I could not tell if they were even installed by shining a flashlight on them. Had to take the barrel off to verify. Maybe I should try new shims if you guys think that may be the problem If I bent the forks, I will need a new receiver, The big increase in barrel droop also probalby happened after the over- tightening. Was never this high when I shot it last year. The barrel droop problem happened after I did the over tightening I think. Still rattles but the chrony says notihng is wrong inside. Like I said, it shoot great with irons and the chrony says the power plant is working. Please advise. Thanks so much with sticking with me on this problem. Only thing I know to do now is drop it off and Airgunwerks and let David Slade look at it.

HW 35S with Hawke Rings, UTG droop mount and 3x12 UTG BugBuster Scope.jpg


5 shot group at 10 yds, 1 inch size, 5 inches low using JSB Exact 10.34 gr pellets..jpg
 
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JDR said:
Ok, ran the chrony with JSB Exact 10.34 gr at 5 yards.

1. 687 fps
2. 686 fps
3. 688 fps
4. 697 fps
5. 695 fps


Below is 5 shot group with UTG bugbuster 3x12 set at mid range elevation and UTG Piccany droop mount ( I checked the mount screws and scope rings, all torqued down good and no movement. Do not have a scope to try on the dovetail but do not think the mount is the problem.). Gun had a vortex spring installed when purchased. Yardage was 10 yards with JSB Exact 10.34 gr. Got 1" group that was 5" low. I think, from some of the comments, the problem is I may have over-tightend the pivot bolt and bent the forks holding the barrel thus adding a little variability in the lockup. Is it possible to do that with a screwdriver? The forks are very thick. Maybe I destroyed the shims. I could not tell if they were even installed by shining a flashlight on them. Had to take the barrel off to verify. Maybe I should try new shims if you guys think that may be the problem If I bent the forks, I will need a new receiver, The big increase in barrel droop also probalby happened after the over- tightening. Was never this high when I shot it last year. The barrel droop problem happened after I did the over tightening I think. Still rattles but the chrony says notihng is wrong inside. Like I said, it shoot great with irons and the chrony says the power plant is working. Please advise. Thanks so much with sticking with me on this problem. Only thing I know to do now is drop it off and Airgunwerks and let David Slade look at it.

View attachment 347302

View attachment 347303
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Wow! That is a huge group for 10 yards. The ES is decent, not great for 5 shots. Have you tried a different scope on the drooper mount. I hate drooper mounts, feels like a crutch.
 
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JDR said:
Yes, tried 3 scopes. Wish that was it. Looks like $$$$$ unless anybody has something else to try. I got the breach seal coming and thinking about new shims.
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You got me stumped. Maybe take some good pictures of the lock up mechanism, inside the breach. I've never worked on a 35 lock up but I'm sure several people on here have. They might see something out of the ordinary.
 
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Looking at the picture of the whole gun looks pretty stright in it . I kinda figured a noticable droop look.. seems a nice gun to me ..

What about the irons grouping . That should of been added in ..

9 fps in 5 shots aint so bad. id like better ( who dont? Lol) but I've seen far worse. Then that could be the pellets used. Id call it good . No big swing is key on that
 
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That gun should shoot one ragged hole at 10 yards. Are the groups better with the irons? If they are I believe Ron is spot on. Think about it. The sights are mounted on the barrel and breech block in front of the pivot and on same plane like he said. In theory, you could bend the barrel down x inches and long as you can line the sights up it should still hit on target. But, if you’ve bent something in the pivot or introduced play and it’s not locking up consistently then your shots are going to scatter because the scope and barrel are aligned differently each time because the scope is mounted behind the pivot. If you can find new shims might as well try them and see. Cheap fix. If the forks are bent they could probably be straightened but well beyond my capabilities. If new shims didn’t work I’d take it in.

Hateful, it’s 11 FPS over 5. But who’s counting? ;)
 
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Iron sights shoot good. I intend to post a 5 shot group at 10 yards. I think you guys are right. My idiotic over tightening of the barrel pivot has added play and addtitional droop to the gun. I am ordering the shims and breech seal. I put a micrometer on it but could not detect any bending of the forks. However. when I wiggled the breach when closed, definite horizontal visible play, may 1/32-1/64" or less, between the forks. Barrel does seem to come back to original location but the change may be too small to see. However when I cocked the gun and left the barrel down, definite visible wobble, maybe twice the horizontal movement that I had with the breech closed. Maybe I damaged the shims so will try the new ones when they get here. After the breech seal and barrel shim replacement, I have no solutions. I am liking the clean lines without the scope. Going to see in good light what I can do at extended distances with iron sights and may not even repair it. However it bugs me. I paid over $700 for that tuned gun. Therefore may still go to Airgunwerks at least for an estimate and find out what the hell happened to my beloved gem. Wishing I had the Beemans warranty although they may not have not covered this repair.
 
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cjtamu said:
That gun should shoot one ragged hole at 10 yards. Are the groups better with the irons? If they are I believe Ron is spot on. Think about it. The sights are mounted on the barrel and breech block in front of the pivot and on same plane like he said. In theory, you could bend the barrel down x inches and long as you can line the sights up it should still hit on target. But, if you’ve bent something in the pivot or introduced play and it’s not locking up consistently then your shots are going to scatter because the scope and barrel are aligned differently each time because the scope is mounted behind the pivot. If you can find new shims might as well try them and see. Cheap fix. If the forks are bent they could probably be straightened but well beyond my capabilities. If new shims didn’t work I’d take it in.

Hateful, it’s 11 FPS over 5. But who’s counting? ;)
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"Hateful, it’s 11 FPS over 5. But who’s counting? "

Apparently not me..🤤

Then i was holding this device in one hand that cost me the 5 fingers i needed to do the math. 😜
 
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