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HW100 Thumhole .22 shot count

Update on the pellet tuning: I verified the Regulator setting and found it to be at 130 Bar after AOA detuned it to improve shot count. Thank you oOmpH for providing the FAC setting (150 Bar). I then proceeded to re-adjust HST to max velocities for both 18.1 and 15.89 pellets then dropped back by 4% of max (this was based on Hard Air Magazines Tuning guide for 3-5% less than max velocity for a given regulator setting). Chrony results for both pellets tightened up. Verifying accuracy for both 18.1 and 15.89 pellets at 25/35 yds were within a dime size grouping. Velocities were as follows: 18.1 910fps SD was 3.5 and 15.89 960fps SD was at 4.3 (previous SDs were about 4 and 6 respectively).
Independently both values are at 4% below max velocity for the given Regulator pressure.
At 50 yards both pellets opened up a bit. I was seeing about a quarter sized spread with an occasional flyer that I couldn't attribute to user error.
In the meantime, I ordered HN 21.14 Barracuda Match pellets with 5.52mm diameter to see if they improved accuracy.
I also cleaned the barrel to minimize the chance that flyers were caused by deposits.
I received the 21.14 pellets yesterday and shot 2 magazines at 25/35 yds. HOLY CRAP!!! are these pellets accurate. I got hole in hole accuracy at 25 yds and only slight more open at 35yds (probably user induced). At 50/60yds, groups were about dime sized with these pellets. I chrono'ed them after accuracy testing and they are clocking about 830fps and SD between 2-3. I believe I've found the preferred pellet for my HW100 at this point.
For now, I'm going to keep settings as is since I can get 2 full mags regulated and still have a few rounds to go if pushed.
 
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I find it difficult to believe that regulator pressures would ever be set at 150 Bar. Velocities do not start dropping off until the pressures are in the yellow on the gauges and that is 120 Bar. If it were at 150 Bar you would only have a usable pressure range of 50 Bar out of these rifles since the fill pressure is 200 Bar. I doubt that AOA cut the regulator pressure down on your gun Gilberca, I would be much more inclined to believe that they had adjusted the hammer spring.

The Baracuda Match is just a bit less accurate from my HW100S than the JSB 18, two of the best pellets made. Individual barrel preferences make the choice of which to use.
 
I find it difficult to believe that regulator pressures would ever be set at 150 Bar. Velocities do not start dropping off until the pressures are in the yellow on the gauges and that is 120 Bar. If it were at 150 Bar you would only have a usable pressure range of 50 Bar out of these rifles since the fill pressure is 200 Bar. I doubt that AOA cut the regulator pressure down on your gun Gilberca, I would be much more inclined to believe that they had adjusted the hammer spring.

The Baracuda Match is just a bit less accurate from my HW100S than the JSB 18, two of the best pellets made. Individual barrel preferences make the choice of which to use.
Per my inquiry to AOA on what they performed on my HW100:
"We installed new seals in the valve block, adjusted the regulator pressure, adjusted the hammer and installed the cylinder ends in correctly. We set the velocity at 28-29 ft / lbs giving the rifle 35 shots.

The regulator pressure was decreased slightly along with the hammer spring tension to achieve the slightly lower velocity/muzzle energy. I am curious on the numbers you are seeing from HW as I have never seen an HW100 achieve anything close to 37ft-lbs, much less get 30 shots at that power level. Most of these rifles come in around 27-30ftlbs and get 25-35 shots depending on that. The cylinder/barrel band issue was indeed the cylinder caps on backwards. Unfortunately I only had a used air cylinder on hand to compare it to so we had to swap the cylinder ends of your tube and replaced the seals while doing so."

AOA is telling me the Regulator pressure was lowered slightly (make your own conclusion on what that meant). I verified the Regulator Pressure is set to 130 bar accessing the test port and Pressure Test gauge from HW100Tuning. I was hoping the JSBs would be the most accurate since I have a decent supply of them on hand (both 15.89 and 18.1), but empirical testing for my setup is showing the HN Barracuda Match 21.14 in 5.52mm to be the most accurate tested pellet thus far and is very accurate at 60 yds.

From an earlier thread you posted where you tested shot counts, I believe you were seeing about 975fps avg for JSB 18.1 pellets. The Highest velocity I recorded on the 18.1s in my setup after adjusting HST to yield max velocity was 950fps in my case. It would seem that your setup may have a higher than 130 bar regulator pressure. My gun, like yours has the 50J rating.

I've not tested any hollowpoint pellets in the PCP only because of earlier results with my springers yielded deficient accuracies from a number of manufacturers; RWS, AA, HN and JSB at 25 yds.
 
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I find it difficult to believe that regulator pressures would ever be set at 150 Bar.


I confirm the FAC 600mm barrel version comes with the regulator pressure set at 150 bar. I have provided photos with the gauge in the reg test port earlier in this thread.
I have posted tutorials on changing regulator pressure, swapping hammer spring shuttle and adjusting hammer spring preload for the HW110 in the Facebook HW110 Owners group. I believe that I also posted a few tutorials here on AGN.

Here are some results of pellet velocity testing with 4 popular pellet weights - FAC hammer spring shuttle and regulator at 150 bar. These results test the min velocity with hammer spring shuttle adjuster turned in, and max velocity with hammer spring shuttle adjuster turned out the full 6.5 maximum turns counterclockwise.

Results (updated with more pellets as of September 20, 2022) with regulator at 150 bar (factory FAC reg pressure) and FAC hammer spring shuttle:

14.66g pellet H&N FTT: Min Velocity = 382 fps Max Velocity = 965fps

15.89g pellet JSB : Min Velocity = 335fps Max Velocity = 925fps

18.13g pellet JSB: Min Velocity = 318fps Max Velocity = 889fps

21.14g pellet H&N: Min Velocity = 277fps Max Velocity = 847fps

At the 150 bar factory delivered regulator and hammer spring settings, I got about 38 to 40 shots on the regulator before velocity started to fall. At these factory settings, my HW110 shot 15.89s at 898-902fps and 18.13s at 840-842fps.

-Ed
 
To get 50 Joules of power from the rifles there are several changes that are visible. Part number BS 122, the bushing on the valve isn't used and the springs are different, there are two springs. I saved a picture taken by another member here. Plenum volume in the block is increased. Regulator pressure is increased. I don't know why the guys at AOA would be surprised by the rifle delivering 37 foot pounds as it's marked right on the rifle. Some people don't like that much power from these rifles but I do, it places it almost as powerful as my old Evanix AR6 Renegade but with much better accuracy, larger magazine capacity, hugely better trigger and is much better looking too. The Evanix only works with Eun Jin-Seneca pellets.

I swapped my tank ends around too to get it correct, it bugged me after finding out that it was wrong. I must be OCD! I've been thinking about getting a Rat Works tank. They sell a longer 235cc or 269cc tank. Or possibly the slightly longer tank that HW100 Tuning sells for FSB guns that is also fine for FAC 600mm barrels.
 
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Here's the picture of the valve springs, taken by Inverted.
IMG_20220110_234713 1.1642584719 (1).jpg
 
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To get 50 Joules of power from the rifles there are several changes that are visible. Part number BS 122, the bushing on the valve isn't used and the springs are different, there are two springs. I saved a picture taken by another member here. Plenum volume in the block is increased. Regulator pressure is increased. I don't know why the guys at AOA would be surprised by the rifle delivering 37 foot pounds as it's marked right on the rifle. Some people don't like that much power from these rifles but I do, it places it almost as powerful as my old Evanix AR6 Renegade but with much better accuracy, larger magazine capacity, hugely better trigger and is much better looking too. The Evanix only works with Eun Jin-Seneca pellets.

I swapped my tank ends around too to get it correct, it bugged me after finding out that it was wrong. I must be OCD! I've been thinking about getting a Rat Works tank. They sell a longer 235cc or 269cc tank. Or possibly the slightly longer tank that HW100 Tuning sells for FSB guns that is also fine for FAC 600mm barrels.
I'm with you on the OCD comment. Once I saw the barrel band alignment issue, I had to get to that resolved.
 
I have posted tutorials on changing regulator pressure, swapping hammer spring shuttle and adjusting hammer spring preload for the HW110 in the Facebook HW110 Owners group. I believe that I also posted a few tutorials here on AGN.

Here are some results of pellet velocity testing with 4 popular pellet weights - FAC hammer spring shuttle and regulator at 150 bar. These results test the min velocity with hammer spring shuttle adjuster turned in, and max velocity with hammer spring shuttle adjuster turned out the full 6.5 maximum turns counterclockwise.

Results (updated with more pellets as of September 20, 2022) with regulator at 150 bar (factory FAC reg pressure) and FAC hammer spring shuttle:

14.66g pellet H&N FTT: Min Velocity = 382 fps Max Velocity = 965fps

15.89g pellet JSB : Min Velocity = 335fps Max Velocity = 925fps

18.13g pellet JSB: Min Velocity = 318fps Max Velocity = 889fps

21.14g pellet H&N: Min Velocity = 277fps Max Velocity = 847fps

At the 150 bar factory delivered regulator and hammer spring settings, I got about 38 to 40 shots on the regulator before velocity started to fall. At these factory settings, my HW110 shot 15.89s at 898-902fps and 18.13s at 840-842fps.

-Ed
Hi - Could you point me in the direction of the tutorial for adjusting the HW110 regulator that you have put together. Also would adjustments on the HW44 regulator be the same - Many thanks - Bernie
 
You can ask them about warranty implications. I don't think you will have a problem. If you talk to them first, I think they will take care of you on any potential warranty issue. But I understand your point regarding an issue on a new rifle.
I agree talk with them first about doing it and you comfortability with doing the work.
 
Hi - Could you point me in the direction of the tutorial for adjusting the HW110 regulator that you have put together. Also would adjustments on the HW44 regulator be the same - Many thanks - Bernie
Hi Bernie,
Here are the instructions. I have corresponding photos that I’ll have to dig up - they may be in the HW110 Owners Group on Facebook.

As to your question, yes - I believe these instructions will also apply to your HW44 - (other than stock removal) as the actions are basically the same between HW44 pistol and HW110 rifle.

HW110 Reg Pressure Adjustment:

I promised to do another tutorial on how to adjust the regulator pressure on the HW110.
It took a while to markup all the photos, but its done. I hope that you find this useful:
ADJUSTING HW110 REGULATOR PRESSURE:

Step 1: Remove the two M-4 allen head stock bolts – (remember that the shorter bolt is towards muzzle when reassembling)

Step 2: Remove the trigger guard – simply remove the M-2.5 allen screw and then tap out the pin with a light hammer.

Step 2b: Loosen the two M-2 barrel grub screws in the barrel band. (this step is not required, but may prevent scratching your barrel if you get to aggressive “wiggling” in step 3)

Step 3: Move forward the metal “backbone” which barrel band slides onto. This is accomplished by removing the M-2.5 short Allen screw. Then wiggle / tap the backbone so that it moves off the trigger assembly – you must move the backbone at least 1/2” towards the muzzle, as the lip of the backbone holds the trigger assembly in place - you can’t lift the trigger assembly out without moving the backbone off the trigger assembly lip.

Step 4: Lift out the trigger assembly. It simply just lifts out – the back end of assembly tucks under first when reassembling.

Step 5: Lift out the magazine advance - note long end of pivot points forward for reassembly (I marked forward on mine in pink ink – see photo).

Step 6: Remove the air cylinder by loosening M-5 black Allen screw. Best to use a long Allen key and insert from back of breech. Air cylinder does NOT have to be depressurized before removal - it is a self contained unit and can remain pressurized during removal.

TIP: I have two M-5 allen keys – I leave the key in place in the screw after sliding the air cylinder out. This makes it simple as it keeps the M-5 screw held in place for reassembly – rather than having to get the screw back into position. You will need the 2nd M-5 allen key to adjust the reg pressure adjustment screw (Step 9).

** Note at this point that you have only removed the two stock bolts, two M-2.5 allen screws, tapped out a pin, and unscrewed the M-5 air cylinder – the rest came apart like Legos! You’re HW110 is a simple rifle to work on – crazy simple !! **

Step 7: Drain the air cylinder by turning the M-2.5 pressure release screw IN (clockwise) slowly - until you hear air escaping. Drain all the air, then close the drain screw by turning back OUT (counter-clockwise)

Step 8: Open the regulator Test Port grub screw (M-3 Allen). Do this VERY slowly - as there may still be some air in the regulator. There is a ball bearing under the screw - remove this. There is an o-ring at the bottom of the reg test port - leave this in (or remove and put it on the end of reg test gauge) when screwing in reg test gauge (source for the gauge is HWTuning - a UK store). AVOID quickly removing/draining this grub screw/port quickly or you risk blowing the steel ball bearing and o-ring out – and you will be hunting all over your room for them, lol.

TIPS: Do NOT overtighten the reg test gauge when screwing it in - just tighten until you feel a bit of pressure on the o-ring - when you add air pressure, the pressure will help seal it. When reassembling after you have completed setting the reg pressure, do NOT overtighten the reg test port grub screw - just tighten until you feel a bit of pressure on the o-ring. Otherwise, by over tightening you can deform the o-ring at the bottom of the reg test port - possibly creating a leak (and permanently damaging the o-ring).

Step 9: After screwing in the reg pressure test gauge, add air to pressurize the air cylinder. The factory reg set pressure on a “FAC” HW110 is 150 bar. The sub-12 factory reg set pressure is 100 bar. Note that both of these factory reg settings are actually marked on your Wika cylinder pressure gauge – see the larger white triangle type marks on the gauge. To change the reg pressure, first you must loosen or remove the locking grub screw (M-2.5 Allen) for the regulator adjuster (M-5 Allen). Turn in (clockwise) the M-5 adjuster to increase reg pressure - counterclockwise to reduce reg pressure.

Strategy for adjusting reg pressure:
The Best Strategy to adjust reg pressure is probably to drop the reg pressure down to 100 bar or less (if you have a FAC rifle currently set at 150 bar) - by turning the M-5 reg adjustment screw about 1/4 turn counterclockwise (1/4 turn is a significant amount – most adjusting will be slight turns). Then when you pressurize the cylinder, you can increase the reg pressure to where you want it by turning the 5mm screw IN - clockwise. I had no luck trying to REDUCE the reg pressure once the cylinder was pressurized. If you find you need to reduce the reg pressure further to reach your desired pressure, I always depressurize the cylinder, then reduce the pressure by turning the M-5 adjuster further counterclockwise – then put air back in. Summary – when the cylinder is pressurized, you can adjust reg setting up but not down – so plan accordingly – so that you don’t have to keep pressurizing and depressurizing to get to your desired regulator set point.


Step 10: After you have set your desired reg pressure, remember to tighten down the M-2.5 reg lockdown grub screw.

Step 11: Depressurize your air cylinder following directions in Step 7. Remove the reg test gauge and put the o-ring back in bottom of the reg test port (if it came out when removing the gauge). Put steel ball back on top of the o-ring. Then tighten the M-3 grub screw - as in Step 8 - just until you feel some tension on the o-ring. Don’t overtighten or you will deform the o-ring and create a leak – you can always tighten a bit more if you need to.

TIP: You should put some pressure back in the cylinder and check the reg test port for air leak - BEFORE reassembling the cylinder back into the rifle.


REASSEMBLY: follow the above steps in reverse

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that small spring seems to be an add-on and not stock, none of my HW100's have that spring and It's not shown on the exploded View diagram, I wonder if it's for the UK non-FAC HW100's?


View attachment 388849
That two spring set up is for the 50 Joule power rated versions.