In continuance of my foray into springers. Getting ready to pull the string on a HW 97. Two questions. I notice on Krale's site there are two 97's I'm interested in. First is the Hw97K and the L. Designating the longer barrel. Will the longer barrel be quieter with a tad bit more power going long? And secondly, going back and forth between .20 and .22. I have many .22 pellets ( a few PCPs in .22). This will be for plinking and still hunting. I know thumper, for one, is not big on .22 as a caliber in springers. Any help or opinions would be welcome. Do intend to have it tuned reasonably quick and a new stock when I can.
HW 97
- Thread starter dasman
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I'd get the K. It balances better and puts out basically same power regardless. Sound wise, the 97K is plenty quiet.
.20 is a great caliber but you are extremely limited on pellet choices. You do run the risk of the gun not jiving great with any of them. It probably will though but it seemed worth mentioning.
My .22 97K is the best gun I have. Definitely recommend.
.20 is a great caliber but you are extremely limited on pellet choices. You do run the risk of the gun not jiving great with any of them. It probably will though but it seemed worth mentioning.
My .22 97K is the best gun I have. Definitely recommend.
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For your description i would do the .22 , no addition shelve space for extra caliber pellets . also the long since your not trekking through the woods.
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I have had better sucess with the shorter barrels, stiffer cocking but much better handling and balance. Hsve owned a couple in 177 and one in 22 cal with no issues. My 22 shot about 640 fps with 14.3 gn CP dome pellets. All great rifles but felt the stock was designed for a larger person. At only 5'6" the TX stock was a much better fit, so I switched to AA rifles. Never found a case where the longer barrel made more power or accuracy in any of my springers. On my R1, cutting 3" off the barrel added 25 fps and greatly improved accuracy. All my 77/97 were carbine barrels.
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I love the .20, Have 97 in .22 and think for you it is a better choice....I also agree a shorter barrel is better unless you need the leverage to make it easier to cock.
My 97 has the black thumbhole stock, feels good....In a more powerful springer, I will Always take the larger cal. I also have big fingers and the bigger pellets make it easier for me.
The K or the KT ...this springer is a keeper,you do not want to think later I should have got this model instead...my HW97black thumbhole feels good,a bit heavy..I know I wood rather have it in Wood though...
My 97 has the black thumbhole stock, feels good....In a more powerful springer, I will Always take the larger cal. I also have big fingers and the bigger pellets make it easier for me.
The K or the KT ...this springer is a keeper,you do not want to think later I should have got this model instead...my HW97black thumbhole feels good,a bit heavy..I know I wood rather have it in Wood though...
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Thanks for all opinions. Valued, and not just by me. Lots of guys out there looking to simplify. Though I do have fun with other airguns. I did pick up a 50 from a fellow (brewski) that's been tuned by John n Pa. That one is in .177. Looking forward to some decent weather.
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I and fortunate to own four 97's, represented across all three calibers. They are all Vortek tuned with HO kits, all are smooth as silk in both the cocking stroke and the firing cycle, and all are deadly accurate. If I could only have one, it would be in .20.
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A pellet launched from a springer is at its peak efficiency/velocity at around 12 inches of barrel.. Any barrel length after this causes drag on the pellet slowing it down. I have been a fan .20 caliber for over 40 years. It all started with a Sheridan for me. The .20 caliber is known for being very accurate. It is however the least ballistically efficient when compared to .177 or .22. Sqwirlfugger57 also makes the point as to the very limited selection of .20 caliber pellets. I look at it this way. Beeman tried to promote the .20 caliber to corner the pellet market almost 40 years ago. Had fans like me that came in from Sheridans. It still never really took off. If shooting primarily indoors I would recommend the.177. Outdoors the .22.
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I don't use .22 for hunting because of the loopy trajectory. .177 opens up a nice wound channel that kills as long as you practice good shot placement. Probably about the same kill zone total area .22 or .177 but .177 will give a greater depth of field for a given POI.
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A 97 is a absolute trophy of a rifle. I have a few, but if hunting I’d go for a break barrel. 95, 98, 80, 35e, 50 ,goes on. Crow
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Didnt catch the hunting part, yes I would agree with the break barrel for that. My R1 in 22 cal cant be beat for hunting. Great power, smooth shot cycle, extremely good accuracy!! Yes the cocking effort is stiff at 40 plus pounds but, at 825 fps with 14.3 gn pellets and sub one inch groups at 50 yds, the critters dont stand a chance. The break barrel is so quick and easy to make a follow up shot....food for thought !!!!!
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I have two HW97ks and both in .22 cal. I would recommend a .22 simply due to pellet selection and availability. They are phenomenal rifles. I would have to disagree with break barrel being better for hunting. I hunt small game a lot with one of my 97s and it fills the freezer every season with ease.
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My HW97 in .22 caliber I love for general plinking and bench shooting. My HW95 in .22 caliber is just as accurate and much more enjoyable to carry around in the woods.
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I believe that Krale only carries the longer barrel HW97 in .177 caliber. I think this longer barrel version looks cool, but I’ve never found a review on it. My thought is that it might be more challenging to shoot a longer barrel springer accurately (vs. a shorter barrel of the same gun & caliber) - due to the longer lock time in a recoiling shot cycle. If you do get the longer (I believe 420mm ) barrel HW97, do a review on it - especially if you get a chance to compare it side-by-side to the standard length barrel HW97.
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For everyone's knowledge the Hw97 long has the same cocking arm as the Hw97K. There's no difference in cocking leverage. I don't see any advantages to the longer barrel since it's a scoped air rifle. There's no sight radius improvement and the additional length will only add drag and hold sensitivity.
I have a 177 Hw97 and it's a very nice and very accurate gun. In 20 caliber I think it would be good too. I have a 20 caliber R9 and a 177 caliber Hw95. They are similar internally to the Hw97 and the 20 caliber makes more power and carries it longer than the 177. Even with 177 heavies. I think 20 is a good caliber for that power plant. Unfortunately there's limited 20 caliber pellet choices and it can be an expensive chore finding them. I'm not a fan of mid power 22 springers. They're a little too loopy for me, but that's just me. In reality 22 isn't that much loopier than 20 caliber. Just remember the loopier the trajectory the better your holdover skills have to be in the field. I personally like flatter guns because I'd rather hit the right spot with a smaller projectile than the wrong spot (or not at all) with a bigger one.
As far as hunting goes the Hw97 is a heavy gun and you couldn't pay me enough to carry it into the woods. When it's time to walk around with a pellet gun I usually grab my 177 Hw50. It's probably under 8 lbs scoped. It makes about 11-12 fpe depending on pellet. It shoots flat and strong enough to take squirrels to 50 yds which is the maximum I trust myself to shoot at one.
Bottom line is, no advantage to the long barrel and buy whatever caliber you're comfortable with. This caliber argument will go on forever because everyone likes a different caliber for different reasons. Follow your gut, get what want and you'll eventually learn what you like and don't like. The worst case scenario is that you have to buy another air rifle. Big deal, you're going to anyway.
Good luck and enjoy your 97
I have a 177 Hw97 and it's a very nice and very accurate gun. In 20 caliber I think it would be good too. I have a 20 caliber R9 and a 177 caliber Hw95. They are similar internally to the Hw97 and the 20 caliber makes more power and carries it longer than the 177. Even with 177 heavies. I think 20 is a good caliber for that power plant. Unfortunately there's limited 20 caliber pellet choices and it can be an expensive chore finding them. I'm not a fan of mid power 22 springers. They're a little too loopy for me, but that's just me. In reality 22 isn't that much loopier than 20 caliber. Just remember the loopier the trajectory the better your holdover skills have to be in the field. I personally like flatter guns because I'd rather hit the right spot with a smaller projectile than the wrong spot (or not at all) with a bigger one.
As far as hunting goes the Hw97 is a heavy gun and you couldn't pay me enough to carry it into the woods. When it's time to walk around with a pellet gun I usually grab my 177 Hw50. It's probably under 8 lbs scoped. It makes about 11-12 fpe depending on pellet. It shoots flat and strong enough to take squirrels to 50 yds which is the maximum I trust myself to shoot at one.
Bottom line is, no advantage to the long barrel and buy whatever caliber you're comfortable with. This caliber argument will go on forever because everyone likes a different caliber for different reasons. Follow your gut, get what want and you'll eventually learn what you like and don't like. The worst case scenario is that you have to buy another air rifle. Big deal, you're going to anyway.
Good luck and enjoy your 97
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There is a reason that the HW97 and TX200 are superior in accuracy to other air rifles. That reason is the short barrels. The pellet has much less chance to be influenced by you the shooter with wobble, improper trigger pull, etc, etc. As for accuracy versus such as the 95 a .75 inch group versus a 5/8 inch group makes no difference to the squirrel, both equal a dead squirrel. As far as sound, nope, no difference at least not any that the human ear can detect.
I am a hunter and prefer the 97 in spite of its a HEAVY rifle to carry around. I put a loop sling on mine and I carry a set of shooting sticks with me at all times. However hunting presents a great variety of shot opportunities and one shot may well require leaning up against a tree trunk and placing the rifle across your forearm, the next may allow the use of shooting sticks, while the next is an offhand shot at a squirrel hiding on the far side of a branch inching around as you move around to see it. The 97 is very forgiving with different holds and the required variety of situations encountered in a hunting situation. A break barrel is much more sensitive to your hold and my well change point of impact from your target range to resting it on your forearm to take that shot. So as the 97 is forgiving of various holds I prefer it in spite of how heavy it is. As for all this talk about follow up shots, hey with self discipline and taking only shots that are a sure thing, none are required. The 97 is a fantastic hunting rifle for still hunting , walk into the woods where you know there are squirrels and plant your shooting sticks and sit down and have a break. Use your rangefinder and mark various landmarks, stumps, rocks, etc and know the range of these things, now if you know your rifle you know the exact hold over at range. The 97 is deadly accurate and no squirrel that decides to sit still for a bit is going into the frying pan.
Cheers
Kit
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From my personal experiences, I found the HW77 to be far more hold sensative than my R1 breakbarrel. Shot a 77 for years in competition and ended up switching tobthe TX as it was less hold sensative. My son shot a 77 as well and we spent hours and hours trying to tweak the rifle to make it less hold sensative. When we added the heavy custom stock the sensativity went away. Unfortunately it weighed 17 lbs !!! My R1 never seemed to be hold sensative, never had an issue with it hunting in the woods and yes a follow up shot is often needed, none of us are perfect. I can cock and load a breakbarrel faster than any underlever and the accuracy was always there. To each his own....the 77 is a great rifle if it fits your needs and you can find the proper hold, but some may find other rifles that suit there needs better
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Thanks to everyone who's chimed in. Lot's to think about. I do have a tuned (John n Pa) 50 in .177. Expanding with an underlever seemed like the next logical step. Oh what fun!
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You couldn't pay me to own an R1/HW80 again in any caliber. Nearly as heavy as a 77K, harsher shooting, and too much rearward balance. A R9/HW95 will make near the same power and be much more pleasant to shoot, and lighter and better balance. The 50S is better yet if you can be happy with 11fpe.
The barrel length won't gain you anything other than make the gun more muzzle-heavy. Which is a plus or a minus depending on what you want. Power will be the same, and the noise difference negligible at the most.
97K or even better a 77K all the way! I'll take the killer accuracy and ease of shooting over the weight penalty any day.
I've had them all and my main squeeze for hunting is still an old beat up 80s HW77K in .177
The barrel length won't gain you anything other than make the gun more muzzle-heavy. Which is a plus or a minus depending on what you want. Power will be the same, and the noise difference negligible at the most.
97K or even better a 77K all the way! I'll take the killer accuracy and ease of shooting over the weight penalty any day.
I've had them all and my main squeeze for hunting is still an old beat up 80s HW77K in .177
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Mine is the k from Krale in .177 cal. Absolutely love the rifle and has helped me become a better springer shooter.
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