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Huben Huben issue
- Thread starter Turbo911
- Start date
Thanks i have had great results with the zan slugs but as ever chasing something that could be better suppose its a learning curve but again could be i just got it right first time i love to shoot my Huben and i have now got it dialled in once again so watch out bunny’s……
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No i havent but on rebuilding from my recent issues I couldn’t get it to fire again at lower reg pressures it only started to shoot when i got it around 160 bar plus no idea why but its now performing as i would expect at 18-190 bar and its again now super accurate
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Gregor's latest Huben pistol video may be helpful. What Gregor describes may be adjacent to the cause of delayed firing, described above.
Relevant section is just over 4 minutes into the video:
Otherwise it sounds like a tight fitting projectile with a long bearing surface, that is not able to gain enough starting velocity to swage fully into the rifling, but comes to a stop just partially into the barrel. If this is the failure mechanism, then projectile hardness will also factor into the go/nogo equation.
Looking at an image of a mangled projectile indicating misalignment between mag chamber and barrel bore, the question is; did this misalignment occur before that shot; or as a result of partial mag rotation after the shot where the projectile was not fully expelled?
The above speculation makes more sense, if we consider that a Huben mag operates more like a revolver cylinder, than a rotary mag in a 10/22. Bullets leave the chamber mouth of a revolver cylinder with significant velocity; as do projectiles leaving the chambers of a Huben "magazine". That said, if there is a "mag" indexing problem before the projectile is fired, all bets are off.
Relevant section is just over 4 minutes into the video:
Otherwise it sounds like a tight fitting projectile with a long bearing surface, that is not able to gain enough starting velocity to swage fully into the rifling, but comes to a stop just partially into the barrel. If this is the failure mechanism, then projectile hardness will also factor into the go/nogo equation.
Looking at an image of a mangled projectile indicating misalignment between mag chamber and barrel bore, the question is; did this misalignment occur before that shot; or as a result of partial mag rotation after the shot where the projectile was not fully expelled?
The above speculation makes more sense, if we consider that a Huben mag operates more like a revolver cylinder, than a rotary mag in a 10/22. Bullets leave the chamber mouth of a revolver cylinder with significant velocity; as do projectiles leaving the chambers of a Huben "magazine". That said, if there is a "mag" indexing problem before the projectile is fired, all bets are off.
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Hi and what a find as Gregor explains it that’s exactly what happened after i rebuilt following my issue and i,m pretty sure you are also correct with the tight fitting projectile being tight and heavy for my first non shoot and cycling issue, It’s been a good learning curve but i,m very happy now as i have no issues and accuracy is back if not better than before but i did clean the barre while she was stripped, I was messing around yesterday hitting oranges at circa 300m plus so big smile on my face and thanks for your input..
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Hi Turbo911,
I notice you are in the UK. Is your Huben an FAC version, or limited to 6 FPE? If the latter, then getting projectiles stuck might be a contributing factor.
I notice you are in the UK. Is your Huben an FAC version, or limited to 6 FPE? If the latter, then getting projectiles stuck might be a contributing factor.
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Hi,
i,m not I’m in Spain my profile is in the uk so i,m running 80 plus FPE with the Zans, did get up to 108 FPE with the Altaros slugs but now decided to stay with the zans..
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Thanks, Turbo911
I was finding it hard to imagine a 6 FPE Huben pistol. That would be a waste
I was finding it hard to imagine a 6 FPE Huben pistol. That would be a waste
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This is the K1 rifle, subscriber.Thanks, Turbo911
I was finding it hard to imagine a 6 FPE Huben pistol. That would be a waste
Turbo - I’m sure that you would find that the Altaros smooth slugs work well - I’ve been through many boxes. However, maybe 51grain/108fpe is pushing it a bit too hard. I dialed mine down to 900fps. With a BC>0.2 it’s not necessary to shoot them really fast and likely only diminishes accuracy.
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Thanks, weevil. I have Huben pistol burnt into my mind from recent exposure.
As far as the projectile travel from the mag into the barrel are concerned, the only functional difference between the pistol and rifle are that the rifle has a regulator, while the pistol runs at full air tank pressure.
As far as the projectile travel from the mag into the barrel are concerned, the only functional difference between the pistol and rifle are that the rifle has a regulator, while the pistol runs at full air tank pressure.
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That video of Gregor's sounds like a good explanation. One thing to note is that there is a lot of variation in how low different Hubens can go and operate. I know some have said that they tried but that their Huben won't work with the regulator below about 120 bar. Mine works great all the way down to 90 bar, and is regulated at about 100 bar for all my shooting.
I will say that I did have a failure like Turbo had with the feeding and the head of the next round looked just like his photo. In my case, the round in the cylinder fired perfectly and the damaged one was the next round - the first shot went off fine, but the mag did not fully index forward as the slug was undersized and slipped forward, and upon firing the second shot it hung up just like that photo and thre reservoir dumped all but about 600 psi before the valve closed . . . .
I will say that I did have a failure like Turbo had with the feeding and the head of the next round looked just like his photo. In my case, the round in the cylinder fired perfectly and the damaged one was the next round - the first shot went off fine, but the mag did not fully index forward as the slug was undersized and slipped forward, and upon firing the second shot it hung up just like that photo and thre reservoir dumped all but about 600 psi before the valve closed . . . .
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One other thing that I noticed with my earlier model 22 (2018) was that certain pellets were getting deformed by the guard on the mag lever. I could see the shards of lead forming on the corner. I bought a new lever/guard from NEAG and note that the shape is different, provides more coverage of the mag and there was no more deformation. My 2020 .25 and pistol both have that new design. There probably aren’t many folks out there with the older models, but that worth fixing IMHO if you have one.
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You're correct. I was just getting you on the right train line!
My take on this, more broadly, is that $#!T will always happen for time to time with this design. There are certainly ways to mitigate it like pellet seating and using the right sized ammo, but the whole hammerless design is inherently more prone to hiccups. Those happen with bolt actions too - it’s just that (because you’re loading manually) you hear/feel or see them and can manually “abort” the shot before some chunk of malformed slug gets hurled down the barrel. These guns are just not as plug and play as bolt actions. I took one into UA to have them try it out with a view to stocking them. It had shot at least 1000 rounds with no problems but on the third shot by the guy at UA, a pellet jammed and gave him the Huben facial. Perhaps it didn’t like having to go to Utah County, rather like my wife. I guess UA will be sticking with Leshiys and AEAs, although they were very impressed with the pistol a couple weeks ago.
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Guys thanks so much for all the input and having been involved with Pcp,s for some years i,m defo no engineer and its all for me a great leaning curve, I may not have replied direct to each post but believe me i have taken on board all the advice, I dont like the Huben facial but hopefully i will never experience it again, And for anyone who might have been put of owning a K1 it still would be and is my go to gun they are a awesome bit of kit….
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Just to pile on ...
I have two K1's and have put over 5K rounds through the two of them. I have had exactly two issues since either was new and both issues were related to my leaving the magazine load/lock lever in the up position when pulling the trigger - this is a guaranteed jam. The symptom is exactly as described - pull the trigger and get BLASTED in the face by air. I was able to clear both jams pretty easily using videos on youtube to guide my disassembly of the gun. It was straightforward to remove the control block/barrel assembly and from there I was able to clear the jammed pellet. I was 100% at fault in both cases.
John from New England Air Gun taught me to use properly sized pellets, and after loading to spin the magazine at least one full rotation before locking the lock/load lever down.
FYI YMMV My $.02
I have two K1's and have put over 5K rounds through the two of them. I have had exactly two issues since either was new and both issues were related to my leaving the magazine load/lock lever in the up position when pulling the trigger - this is a guaranteed jam. The symptom is exactly as described - pull the trigger and get BLASTED in the face by air. I was able to clear both jams pretty easily using videos on youtube to guide my disassembly of the gun. It was straightforward to remove the control block/barrel assembly and from there I was able to clear the jammed pellet. I was 100% at fault in both cases.
John from New England Air Gun taught me to use properly sized pellets, and after loading to spin the magazine at least one full rotation before locking the lock/load lever down.
FYI YMMV My $.02
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While experimenting with the Benjamin Semi Auto design and trying heavier slugs I experienced this same cycling and jamming issue that you guys are discovering with the ultra-heavy slugs in the Huben's. Most, if not all semi auto airguns are designed to cycle/work around a certain projectile size and style. The Benjamin SAM was designed around the Crosman Premier 14.3 grain pellet, and 22 grain slugs will jam and smash magazines after a while.
When the manufacturer's engineers are testing the design and cycling the gun they are tweaking the system with spring rates, air flow passages, and valving to get the thing to work flawlessly around common ammo. So Huben's .25 semi auto was probably designed and tested around a more common 25-35 grain pellets and probably 30-40 grain slugs as well (because of the K1 rifle that proceeded the GK1). Huben's are cycling/shooting well within this weight range too. The heavier slugs like the Altaros .254 51 grain have a larger diameter and are around 20% heavier than the more common 40+- grain slugs that do cycle and shoot well. The combination of larger diameter and grain weight probably does not let the gun cycle as quickly as designed, contributing to the jamming.
When the manufacturer's engineers are testing the design and cycling the gun they are tweaking the system with spring rates, air flow passages, and valving to get the thing to work flawlessly around common ammo. So Huben's .25 semi auto was probably designed and tested around a more common 25-35 grain pellets and probably 30-40 grain slugs as well (because of the K1 rifle that proceeded the GK1). Huben's are cycling/shooting well within this weight range too. The heavier slugs like the Altaros .254 51 grain have a larger diameter and are around 20% heavier than the more common 40+- grain slugs that do cycle and shoot well. The combination of larger diameter and grain weight probably does not let the gun cycle as quickly as designed, contributing to the jamming.
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yeah this all makes sense and as i have said a learning curve for me and you have explained it very well,
When it jammed the first time i should have thought that’s a fluke when it instantly jammed the second time i in hindsight should have come to the conclusion above,
Thanks
When it jammed the first time i should have thought that’s a fluke when it instantly jammed the second time i in hindsight should have come to the conclusion above,
Thanks
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Not necessary, that's what happens due to 4 things I've found on these semi auto hammerless rifles . It's either not properly setting a slug that is tight in the cylinder, improper trigger adjustments, or too high on the power wheel. If you have an lcs or western rattler/sidewinder it may be your barrel screwed in too far. Took me a few teardowns to figure it out when I started buying these used. Seems most people either don't have an idea what's going on and/or leave out important details when selling guns here. I have bought 2 lcs 1 rattler and 1 huben. 3 with "slight" leaks 1 good yet every one had major leaks or way worse but so far the only 1 I'm still having issues with is an lcs I am having a hard time finding parts for(LCS doesn't seem to care about customer support whatsoever)but looking like AOA has the parts I need
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Hi.Can you tell me what slugs and weights you found to work in K-1 I am having trouble with H&N slugs ?
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Hi,
You set your regulator very high, is it really necessary?
With my huben .25, regulator set at 160 bars with 35 clicks and zan 38gr .253 I get 984 fps, but it shoots better at 944 fps 32 clicks (it groups in 3cm at 60 meter).
I had a Huben 22 in 2018 with huben slugs 40 gr I had problems like yours, the slugs too heavy and / or tight creates too much back pressure on the valve,It even breaks the aluminium plate behind the valve.
For me, using 50-grain slugs is not advisable on a hammerless system.
The old huben .22, 40 gr slugs looked exactly like the Altaros, but I think there may also be a issue with the shape of the slug and how the seal is made in the magazine, A “cup base” or "flat base" helping the slug to come out faster.
You set your regulator very high, is it really necessary?
With my huben .25, regulator set at 160 bars with 35 clicks and zan 38gr .253 I get 984 fps, but it shoots better at 944 fps 32 clicks (it groups in 3cm at 60 meter).
I had a Huben 22 in 2018 with huben slugs 40 gr I had problems like yours, the slugs too heavy and / or tight creates too much back pressure on the valve,It even breaks the aluminium plate behind the valve.
For me, using 50-grain slugs is not advisable on a hammerless system.
The old huben .22, 40 gr slugs looked exactly like the Altaros, but I think there may also be a issue with the shape of the slug and how the seal is made in the magazine, A “cup base” or "flat base" helping the slug to come out faster.
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