Huben Hammerless K1
- Thread starter wlbryce
- Start date
petro
")) (()) (()) (()) (()) (()) (()) (()) ((" thank you, good information certain to save someone who let one fly or just wasnt paying attention time & agrivation.
Are you able to measure the thinkness of the spring/washer?
Jiohn
")) (()) (()) (()) (()) (()) (()) (()) ((" thank you, good information certain to save someone who let one fly or just wasnt paying attention time & agrivation.
Are you able to measure the thinkness of the spring/washer?
Jiohn
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I will be doing these tests over the weekend and if the weather helps put the results here.
I have some friends having problem with deformation in the lead skirt, someone has already gone through this and knows the solution?
I have some friends having problem with deformation in the lead skirt, someone has already gone through this and knows the solution?
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Airgunminkey did you ever get the leak fixed? I’m getting a slow clicking from mine in the gauge area? Presuming it’s a very slow leak
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some notes on recent querries:
hcl--Perhaps I can make a clearer explanation of what's going on in your videos.
First, there are three pressure zones to the Huben. There is the tank, at the fill pressure, up to the regulator. There is the regulated chamber up to the flow control valve, at the regulated pressure. There is the firing chamber, at the regulated pressure between shots, and at barrel pressure during the shot.
Second, there are two valves. There is the firing valve, normally closed, closed by spring pressure, opened by the firing chamber pressure, released by the firing mechanism. There is the flow control valve, normally open, closed by air flow to the firing chamber and held by pressure differential, opened by spring pressure. The power wheel works by moving the flow control valve toward or away from the opening it seals, changing the sensativity to flow.
The normal firing cycle is something like:
trigger operates firing mechanism through linkage
firing mechanism releases firing valve
firing valve moves back, opening air feed to barrel
pellet moves down barrel, dropping pressure in firing chamber
air flows into firing chamber past flow control valve
flow control valve shut by flow
flow down barrel drops firing chamber pressure enough spring closes firing valve
firing mechanism engages firing valve
bypass 'leak' of flow control valve equalises firing chamber to regulated pressure
flow control valve opened by spring
It looks like your barrel pressure dump problem is: flow through regulator less than flow required to close flow control valve, but enough to hold firing valve open. Solution is raise regulated pressure or set power control lower, or some of each.
~~~
airgunmonkey--The firing valve can end up on the wrong side of the firing mechanism, but I don't think that's what happened to hcl. If it does happen, no special tools or complete disassembly required to remedy. Unstock the gun and remove the plate on the rear of the reciever retained by two socket cap screws. Remove the spool shaped valve element from the opening revealed. In front of where that valve element was can be seen part of the release mechanism, with no obvious way to get it out of the way.
Flip the gun upside down, set the safety lever to 'fire'. On the same shaft as the linkage from the trigger terminates is a bushing. There is a lever/sear element in the same plane as the bushing, in the shadows below.. Poke the aft end of that sear with an allen key while pulling the trigger and the release mechanism will clear the passageway in the reciever. Maintaining pressure on the sear, pop the valve element in where it goes. Release the sear, reassemble.
I know this because the cap screws on the rear of my reciever vibrated loose and let my valve get out of whack.
The back of the reciever gapped back from vibration:
Bottom of the action, safety lever at top of image, cylinder at center is the bushing, yellow circle shows wohere to poke the sear.
~~~
petrovivs-- I think what you're seeing is not clipping, but the marks from the forcing cone. As in a revolver, the Huben's fired from a rotary magazine mechanism uses a tapered barrel entry (forcing cone) to compensate for any slight misallignment of magazine to barrel. Unlike the bullets of a revolver, pellets usually have slender, frail bearing surfaces where they engage the barrel. For best results, slide pellets to the front of the magazine so they are going as slow as possible at the forcing cone, keep the regulated pressure down to aid a slow launch, and choose pellets with a radius for a bearing surface rather than a knife edge.
For sliding pellets to the front of my magazine I made a tool, a stick about the size of a pencil with a whisker of weed eater line half an inch (13mm) poking out the end. Stiff enough to push the pellets, no damage to pellets or gun.
~~~
As an aside, the unusual valving of the Huben does permit some other faults at extreme settings. I've had some hang-fires (1/2 to one second delays between pulling the trigger and having the pellet/bullet leave the barrel). This was with fairly low regulated pressure, power dialed down, and large/heavy pellets. (Low power to minimise damage to pellet when looking at rifling marks and such.) Apparently, the bullet stopped at the choke, the firing valve stayed open, the flow control valve shut, and the bypass flow slowly built pressure until the bullet squoze through the choke. If it should happen to you, try to have the presence of mind to keep the barrel aimed in a safe direction.
hcl--Perhaps I can make a clearer explanation of what's going on in your videos.
First, there are three pressure zones to the Huben. There is the tank, at the fill pressure, up to the regulator. There is the regulated chamber up to the flow control valve, at the regulated pressure. There is the firing chamber, at the regulated pressure between shots, and at barrel pressure during the shot.
Second, there are two valves. There is the firing valve, normally closed, closed by spring pressure, opened by the firing chamber pressure, released by the firing mechanism. There is the flow control valve, normally open, closed by air flow to the firing chamber and held by pressure differential, opened by spring pressure. The power wheel works by moving the flow control valve toward or away from the opening it seals, changing the sensativity to flow.
The normal firing cycle is something like:
trigger operates firing mechanism through linkage
firing mechanism releases firing valve
firing valve moves back, opening air feed to barrel
pellet moves down barrel, dropping pressure in firing chamber
air flows into firing chamber past flow control valve
flow control valve shut by flow
flow down barrel drops firing chamber pressure enough spring closes firing valve
firing mechanism engages firing valve
bypass 'leak' of flow control valve equalises firing chamber to regulated pressure
flow control valve opened by spring
It looks like your barrel pressure dump problem is: flow through regulator less than flow required to close flow control valve, but enough to hold firing valve open. Solution is raise regulated pressure or set power control lower, or some of each.
~~~
airgunmonkey--The firing valve can end up on the wrong side of the firing mechanism, but I don't think that's what happened to hcl. If it does happen, no special tools or complete disassembly required to remedy. Unstock the gun and remove the plate on the rear of the reciever retained by two socket cap screws. Remove the spool shaped valve element from the opening revealed. In front of where that valve element was can be seen part of the release mechanism, with no obvious way to get it out of the way.
Flip the gun upside down, set the safety lever to 'fire'. On the same shaft as the linkage from the trigger terminates is a bushing. There is a lever/sear element in the same plane as the bushing, in the shadows below.. Poke the aft end of that sear with an allen key while pulling the trigger and the release mechanism will clear the passageway in the reciever. Maintaining pressure on the sear, pop the valve element in where it goes. Release the sear, reassemble.
I know this because the cap screws on the rear of my reciever vibrated loose and let my valve get out of whack.
The back of the reciever gapped back from vibration:
Bottom of the action, safety lever at top of image, cylinder at center is the bushing, yellow circle shows wohere to poke the sear.
~~~
petrovivs-- I think what you're seeing is not clipping, but the marks from the forcing cone. As in a revolver, the Huben's fired from a rotary magazine mechanism uses a tapered barrel entry (forcing cone) to compensate for any slight misallignment of magazine to barrel. Unlike the bullets of a revolver, pellets usually have slender, frail bearing surfaces where they engage the barrel. For best results, slide pellets to the front of the magazine so they are going as slow as possible at the forcing cone, keep the regulated pressure down to aid a slow launch, and choose pellets with a radius for a bearing surface rather than a knife edge.
For sliding pellets to the front of my magazine I made a tool, a stick about the size of a pencil with a whisker of weed eater line half an inch (13mm) poking out the end. Stiff enough to push the pellets, no damage to pellets or gun.
~~~
As an aside, the unusual valving of the Huben does permit some other faults at extreme settings. I've had some hang-fires (1/2 to one second delays between pulling the trigger and having the pellet/bullet leave the barrel). This was with fairly low regulated pressure, power dialed down, and large/heavy pellets. (Low power to minimise damage to pellet when looking at rifling marks and such.) Apparently, the bullet stopped at the choke, the firing valve stayed open, the flow control valve shut, and the bypass flow slowly built pressure until the bullet squoze through the choke. If it should happen to you, try to have the presence of mind to keep the barrel aimed in a safe direction.
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Thank you for these explanations! I have not been responding to all the questions lately because I do not have time, but I am glad you step up and did it instead of me... 
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It is my pleasure to bring something to the table, Gregor.
The following are screenshots from the original post of this thread, since lost in the photobucket debacle:
The following are screenshots from the original post of this thread, since lost in the photobucket debacle:
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Here are some pictures of the last test I did with k1.
leads collected after shot in pool.
groupings made with H & N Barracuda 21gr. (smaller group done at 270 m / s and greater at 300 m / s) distance of 30 mts.
This is the configuration of my dish springs, is working at a pressure of 140 bar.
I did not get pleasant results with the JSB Heavy (18.13gr) lead in various speed ranges, but with Beast and Ultrashock I got good results.
I tested 50 meters and had good results with the ultrashock, Rifle Premium Roud and Jsb Beast. In the next tests I will try at greater distances.
leads collected after shot in pool.
groupings made with H & N Barracuda 21gr. (smaller group done at 270 m / s and greater at 300 m / s) distance of 30 mts.
This is the configuration of my dish springs, is working at a pressure of 140 bar.
I did not get pleasant results with the JSB Heavy (18.13gr) lead in various speed ranges, but with Beast and Ultrashock I got good results.
I tested 50 meters and had good results with the ultrashock, Rifle Premium Roud and Jsb Beast. In the next tests I will try at greater distances.
Upvote 0
"cernunnos"some notes on recent querries:
hcl--Perhaps I can make a clearer explanation of what's going on in your videos.
First, there are three pressure zones to the Huben. There is the tank, at the fill pressure, up to the regulator. There is the regulated chamber up to the flow control valve, at the regulated pressure. There is the firing chamber, at the regulated pressure between shots, and at barrel pressure during the shot.
Second, there are two valves. There is the firing valve, normally closed, closed by spring pressure, opened by the firing chamber pressure, released by the firing mechanism. There is the flow control valve, normally open, closed by air flow to the firing chamber and held by pressure differential, opened by spring pressure. The power wheel works by moving the flow control valve toward or away from the opening it seals, changing the sensativity to flow.
The normal firing cycle is something like:
trigger operates firing mechanism through linkage
firing mechanism releases firing valve
firing valve moves back, opening air feed to barrel
pellet moves down barrel, dropping pressure in firing chamber
air flows into firing chamber past flow control valve
flow control valve shut by flow
flow down barrel drops firing chamber pressure enough spring closes firing valve
firing mechanism engages firing valve
bypass 'leak' of flow control valve equalises firing chamber to regulated pressure
flow control valve opened by spring
It looks like your barrel pressure dump problem is: flow through regulator less than flow required to close flow control valve, but enough to hold firing valve open. Solution is raise regulated pressure or set power control lower, or some of each.
~~~
airgunmonkey--The firing valve can end up on the wrong side of the firing mechanism, but I don't think that's what happened to hcl. If it does happen, no special tools or complete disassembly required to remedy. Unstock the gun and remove the plate on the rear of the reciever retained by two socket cap screws. Remove the spool shaped valve element from the opening revealed. In front of where that valve element was can be seen part of the release mechanism, with no obvious way to get it out of the way.
Flip the gun upside down, set the safety lever to 'fire'. On the same shaft as the linkage from the trigger terminates is a bushing. There is a lever/sear element in the same plane as the bushing, in the shadows below.. Poke the aft end of that sear with an allen key while pulling the trigger and the release mechanism will clear the passageway in the reciever. Maintaining pressure on the sear, pop the valve element in where it goes. Release the sear, reassemble.
I know this because the cap screws on the rear of my reciever vibrated loose and let my valve get out of whack.
The back of the reciever gapped back from vibration:
Bottom of the action, safety lever at top of image, cylinder at center is the bushing, yellow circle shows wohere to poke the sear.
~~~
petrovivs-- I think what you're seeing is not clipping, but the marks from the forcing cone. As in a revolver, the Huben's fired from a rotary magazine mechanism uses a tapered barrel entry (forcing cone) to compensate for any slight misallignment of magazine to barrel. Unlike the bullets of a revolver, pellets usually have slender, frail bearing surfaces where they engage the barrel. For best results, slide pellets to the front of the magazine so they are going as slow as possible at the forcing cone, keep the regulated pressure down to aid a slow launch, and choose pellets with a radius for a bearing surface rather than a knife edge.
For sliding pellets to the front of my magazine I made a tool, a stick about the size of a pencil with a whisker of weed eater line half an inch (13mm) poking out the end. Stiff enough to push the pellets, no damage to pellets or gun.
~~~
As an aside, the unusual valving of the Huben does permit some other faults at extreme settings. I've had some hang-fires (1/2 to one second delays between pulling the trigger and having the pellet/bullet leave the barrel). This was with fairly low regulated pressure, power dialed down, and large/heavy pellets. (Low power to minimise damage to pellet when looking at rifling marks and such.) Apparently, the bullet stopped at the choke, the firing valve stayed open, the flow control valve shut, and the bypass flow slowly built pressure until the bullet squoze through the choke. If it should happen to you, try to have the presence of mind to keep the barrel aimed in a safe direction.
Thanks for all the explanation, really good. The reason that I mentioned the "special tool" was due my had a leak at the top valve, so Huben factory aske me to send the breech block to the for fixing, then they told me that a "special tool" was need which then they sent one to the vendor where I bought the gun from, I haven't seen the tool but my is fixxed now.
Thanks again for the explanation, is really helpfull.
Marcos
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The slow leak that I had on my, fixed itself, I assume that was some dirt/debris on one of the seals that clreared itself.
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"petrovivs"Here are some pictures of the last test I did with k1.
leads collected after shot in pool.
groupings made with H & N Barracuda 21gr. (smaller group done at 270 m / s and greater at 300 m / s) distance of 30 mts.
This is the configuration of my dish springs, is working at a pressure of 140 bar.
I did not get pleasant results with the JSB Heavy (18.13gr) lead in various speed ranges, but with Beast and Ultrashock I got good results.
I tested 50 meters and had good results with the ultrashock, Rifle Premium Roud and Jsb Beast. In the next tests I will try at greater distances.
My also doesn't perform well with the 18"s but, funny enough does well with 15.89's @ 920 fps (280m/s) @ 25 mts (maximum range I have at my house).
I reconized the 10 centavos!!! I am from Rio, but living in South Africa.
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I am from Brazil and here we have a Whatsapp group of owners of K1, and we discuss all issues related to the weapon (leads, groupings, speeds, maintenance, defect etc.) plus we have done many tests regarding the configuration of the springs dish and we have not yet come to a common danominador. What would be the best setting for working in the range of 140 to 180 bar? There is a need to replace the original springs with others, to polish the springs, to reduce their size so as not to pick up the wall of the inner chamber of the regulator, what are the experiences obtained by you in this matter.
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