There is a lot of stuff that could make accuracy poor for a springer like pellets and how your holding the gun. just wanted to know how you guys have got thru this process of how to get the most accuracy out of a springer.
how to get the most accurcy out of a gas ram or ''springer''
- Thread starter harbywyatt12
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Shooting good groups at 50 yards with a springer is not easy. Those 1" groups you see posted are shot by shooters who have lots of experience and practice who have picked a pellet that works well in their gun and have developed a consistent hold.
You might mention what gun and pellets you're using. Try different pellets (domes are best for distance) try different holds (tight, snug, loose) different holds on the forearm (closer to trigger guard or further forward).
This is probably one of my best 55 yard groups. Shot offhand (standing) when I was 'in the zone' and everything worked for me. This was after I'd owned and shot that gun (Beeman R9) for several years.
You might mention what gun and pellets you're using. Try different pellets (domes are best for distance) try different holds (tight, snug, loose) different holds on the forearm (closer to trigger guard or further forward).
This is probably one of my best 55 yard groups. Shot offhand (standing) when I was 'in the zone' and everything worked for me. This was after I'd owned and shot that gun (Beeman R9) for several years.
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I guess the gun itself has something to do with it because I never could shoot tighter the 1" ctc groups at 30 yards with my .177 Gamo440 or 1 1/2" ctc groups at 30 yards with my .177 Crosman Quest, however I could shoot groups like these at that time using my .177 R9 when checking out the accuracy of different pellets (all groups shot from "bucket and sticks").......
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
More recent "pellet test" with the R9, notice the CPL group at the upper left corner of the target........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Here is a target shot "bucket and sticks" upstairs at only 18 yards with various Daisy pellets from the "rotary box"........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
How about a Crosman Destroyer group at only 18 yards shot "bucket and sticks" compared with CPL groups........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Bottom line is that ONE of the accuracy issues coul be the pellet being shot.
Next issue for me was simply not shooting enough to develop a consistent shooting form with my recoiling piston gun. When I bought my first Beeman R9 decades ago the best accuracy I got was 1 1/4" ctc at 40 yards after a couple years of shooting. Then it kinda "clicked" for this slow learner and groups got better. Here are a couple 50 yard groups from that era shot with the only R9 I've owned that shot Beeman FTS pellets well. The barrel was a .
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
I was so pleased with the lower group that I zero'd the gun at 50 yards simply to shoot the upper group aiming "dead on". The barrel used was from a .177 R1 that I had home chopped and choked and I was checking if my "barrel mutilation" had hurt accuracy.
The latest thing that helped me was starting to shoot some 100 bull targets that I made using my CAD software and printer. I would shoot one or two pellets at each bull upstairs at 18 yards simply to practice my shooting form. Here is an example of a target I shot and scanned from Jan 2016 which shows some improvement is needed........
![](http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/52016/1452111484_1060539240_100BullHW95Jan6_2016.jpg"][img]http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=81968][IMG]http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/52016/1452111484_1060539240_100BullHW95Jan6_2016.jpg)
[/IMG][/URL]http://www.snapagogo.com"]Uploaded at Snapagogo.com[/URL]
Anywhoo......once the most accurate pellet from YOUR gun is determined then the best advice I could give is to simply practice a bunch. LOL.....shooting is supposed to be fun isn't it?
Uploaded at Snapagogo.comMore recent "pellet test" with the R9, notice the CPL group at the upper left corner of the target........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.comHere is a target shot "bucket and sticks" upstairs at only 18 yards with various Daisy pellets from the "rotary box"........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.comHow about a Crosman Destroyer group at only 18 yards shot "bucket and sticks" compared with CPL groups........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.comBottom line is that ONE of the accuracy issues coul be the pellet being shot.
Next issue for me was simply not shooting enough to develop a consistent shooting form with my recoiling piston gun. When I bought my first Beeman R9 decades ago the best accuracy I got was 1 1/4" ctc at 40 yards after a couple years of shooting. Then it kinda "clicked" for this slow learner and groups got better. Here are a couple 50 yard groups from that era shot with the only R9 I've owned that shot Beeman FTS pellets well. The barrel was a .
Uploaded at Snapagogo.comI was so pleased with the lower group that I zero'd the gun at 50 yards simply to shoot the upper group aiming "dead on". The barrel used was from a .177 R1 that I had home chopped and choked and I was checking if my "barrel mutilation" had hurt accuracy.
The latest thing that helped me was starting to shoot some 100 bull targets that I made using my CAD software and printer. I would shoot one or two pellets at each bull upstairs at 18 yards simply to practice my shooting form. Here is an example of a target I shot and scanned from Jan 2016 which shows some improvement is needed........
[/IMG][/URL]http://www.snapagogo.com"]Uploaded at Snapagogo.com[/URL]Anywhoo......once the most accurate pellet from YOUR gun is determined then the best advice I could give is to simply practice a bunch. LOL.....shooting is supposed to be fun isn't it?
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I really like that little ditty!
Here are the stock tightening specs for HW springers per HW in Germany..........
Front stock screws = 2.5 Nm is equal approximately to 22.1 in-lb, and Large trigger guard screw = 5 Nm is equal to 44.3 in-lb, and rear trigger guard screw = 2.5 Nm is equal approximately to 22.1 in-lb.
From my early years of stock screw over-tightening before "posting" I even did some silly "repairs" like this to restore the crushed wood.......
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
As long as factory stock mounting torque specs are adhered to I wonder if wood compression is an issue at all, however with the following stock mods wood compression is a non-issue for me........
I go one step further by pulling in posted screw cups for the stock forearm and a steel post for the large trigger guard screws. Basically the "cups and post" gives me "metal to metal" contact after tightening the screws so there is no stock wood compression to change screw tension. Matter of fact, my stoxk forearm screws don't even have lock washers under them and they never get loose.........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Here are the stock tightening specs for HW springers per HW in Germany..........
Front stock screws = 2.5 Nm is equal approximately to 22.1 in-lb, and Large trigger guard screw = 5 Nm is equal to 44.3 in-lb, and rear trigger guard screw = 2.5 Nm is equal approximately to 22.1 in-lb.
From my early years of stock screw over-tightening before "posting" I even did some silly "repairs" like this to restore the crushed wood.......
Uploaded at Snapagogo.comAs long as factory stock mounting torque specs are adhered to I wonder if wood compression is an issue at all, however with the following stock mods wood compression is a non-issue for me........
I go one step further by pulling in posted screw cups for the stock forearm and a steel post for the large trigger guard screws. Basically the "cups and post" gives me "metal to metal" contact after tightening the screws so there is no stock wood compression to change screw tension. Matter of fact, my stoxk forearm screws don't even have lock washers under them and they never get loose.........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.comUploaded at Snapagogo.comUploaded at Snapagogo.comUploaded at Snapagogo.comUploaded at Snapagogo.comUpvote 0
Google is your friend-there is a ton of info out there. By the way, nced is 'the R9 whisperer' for those of you not familiar with his posts.
John
As it turns out, my R9 seems to like a snug but relaxed hold.
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What about it? Some guns like a "floating hold" (like mine) and others like a firmer hold. I think that the shooter has a lot to do with this also since my brother who still lives in WV uses a firmer hold than I and usually shoots better! LOL....go figure, here are a couple R9 groups my brother shot with the R9 I tuned and sold to him. They were shot soon after he got that .177 R9 and was still shooting "3 shot powder burner groups" so I can't fault his shooting form even though different than mine..........
LOL....not normal 5 shot groups that I like but I figure that two 3 shot groups at one setting at least equals on 5 shot group!
While it took me a long time to master shooting my R9 my brother seemed to "pick it up" right away and within a month he was splitting playing cards arranged sideways offhand shooting from 10 yards. You can even tell how far those 10.5 grain CP heavies dropped from the bull aimed at.
LOL....not normal 5 shot groups that I like but I figure that two 3 shot groups at one setting at least equals on 5 shot group!
While it took me a long time to master shooting my R9 my brother seemed to "pick it up" right away and within a month he was splitting playing cards arranged sideways offhand shooting from 10 yards. You can even tell how far those 10.5 grain CP heavies dropped from the bull aimed at.
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Years ago I learned that perfection isn't possible when I'm shootin', however I do get lucky once in a while! At a field target match years ago at a fellow I was squadded with asked "how tight of a group does your R9 shoot at 50 yards?" My reply was "I don't shoot good enough to know" and then I was greeted with a 10 minute diatribe stating that if he couldn't put 20 consecutive pellets in a 1/2" circle with his TX200 he knew there was something wrong with his gun...yada yada yada. I didn't contradict the claim but did take note that at th eend of the match my R9 score was higher than his TX200 score, even if he could shoot groups 1/3rd the size of mine!
I must admit that I usually post only my nicer groups and here are a few more normal groups I've shot from "bucket and sticks".........
5 shots at 50 yards, 1 1/2" killzone..........
Next 5 shots on paper.........
My groups from "bucket and sticks" are normally oval in nature and strung out horizontally. I don't know if this is due to my "swaying on the bucket", slight breezes, or both.
Here are 165 consecutive shots at one sitting when checking the trajectory of a new R9 home tune showing a very rare pivot bolt adjustment. I believe that this target shows the result of some "shooter fatigue" because my one of my 35 yard groups isn't much much worse than my 20 yard groups..........
The heavy circles ar 1/2" diameter, the heavy dashed lines are 1" apart divided into 1/4" and 1/8" spaces.
IMHO, you should take "airgun claims of grandeur" with a grain of salt (most of the time) and simply enjoy what you're shooting because airgun shooting is supposed to be fun! I have to admit that for the first couple years I was a bit discouraging because it seemed that most every shooter on the airgun web sites were shooting 1/2" and smaller 50 yard groups yet the best I could shoot was 1 1/4" ctc at 40 yards. My personal opinion is to simply shoot your airgun for enjoyment and if possible join a field target club to have some fun shooting with other airgunners. Even after a couple decades of field target shooting I have some pretty low scores mixed with the occasional pretty good scores but regardless of the outcome the matches are enjoyable!
As a side note, I don't use a very tight pivot bolt adjustment because I want the cocked barrel to just fall of it's own weight when released from a "horizontal to the ground" angle. Every HW springer I've owned had a pivot adjustment setting much too tight from the factory IMHO!
I must admit that I usually post only my nicer groups and here are a few more normal groups I've shot from "bucket and sticks".........
5 shots at 50 yards, 1 1/2" killzone..........
Next 5 shots on paper.........
My groups from "bucket and sticks" are normally oval in nature and strung out horizontally. I don't know if this is due to my "swaying on the bucket", slight breezes, or both.
Here are 165 consecutive shots at one sitting when checking the trajectory of a new R9 home tune showing a very rare pivot bolt adjustment. I believe that this target shows the result of some "shooter fatigue" because my one of my 35 yard groups isn't much much worse than my 20 yard groups..........
The heavy circles ar 1/2" diameter, the heavy dashed lines are 1" apart divided into 1/4" and 1/8" spaces.
IMHO, you should take "airgun claims of grandeur" with a grain of salt (most of the time) and simply enjoy what you're shooting because airgun shooting is supposed to be fun! I have to admit that for the first couple years I was a bit discouraging because it seemed that most every shooter on the airgun web sites were shooting 1/2" and smaller 50 yard groups yet the best I could shoot was 1 1/4" ctc at 40 yards. My personal opinion is to simply shoot your airgun for enjoyment and if possible join a field target club to have some fun shooting with other airgunners. Even after a couple decades of field target shooting I have some pretty low scores mixed with the occasional pretty good scores but regardless of the outcome the matches are enjoyable!
As a side note, I don't use a very tight pivot bolt adjustment because I want the cocked barrel to just fall of it's own weight when released from a "horizontal to the ground" angle. Every HW springer I've owned had a pivot adjustment setting much too tight from the factory IMHO!
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Two inches at 50 yards is 4 MOA. That isn't bad but maybe more practice reading the wind would help there. There is a thread about sorting pellets which you might want to have a look at. Once you start trying to close in on 2 MOA (1 inch) or better groups you are going to need to sort pellets most likely.
The video about the screws wasn't intended to offend. It reminds me of an incident I had when I failed to keep the screws snug on a rifle of mine.
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Where did you get those steeped posts for your side stock screws? Those are perfect!"nced"I really like that little ditty!
Here are the stock tightening specs for HW springers per HW in Germany..........
Front stock screws = 2.5 Nm is equal approximately to 22.1 in-lb, and Large trigger guard screw = 5 Nm is equal to 44.3 in-lb, and rear trigger guard screw = 2.5 Nm is equal approximately to 22.1 in-lb.
From my early years of stock screw over-tightening before "posting" I even did some silly "repairs" like this to restore the crushed wood.......
As long as factory stock mounting torque specs are adhered to I wonder if wood compression is an issue at all, however with the following stock mods wood compression is a non-issue for me........
I go one step further by pulling in posted screw cups for the stock forearm and a steel post for the large trigger guard screws. Basically the "cups and post" gives me "metal to metal" contact after tightening the screws so there is no stock wood compression to change screw tension. Matter of fact, my stoxk forearm screws don't even have lock washers under them and they never get loose.........
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My trick is making sure the stock screws are tight and loctited, barrel hinge is slop free, clean barrel, rws chamber lube in chamber, and 10.5 Gr or heavier 177 pellets. From there I use a Hammers 3x9x32 AO scope on quality rings, with a light weight modded trigger. I can do one hole groups at 17-25 yards, but open up to a few inches at 50. For me, i would have to really up the magnification to 24-32 to be any tighter at 50 yards.
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"Where did you get those steeped posts for your side stock screws?"
I turned them from steel rod with my bench top lathe, then blackened them by heating red hot and quenching in used motor oil three times.
When fitting to the stock I found that the c-bores in the stock were uneven depths so each cup was custom fit to a tight press fit in the wood.
I turned them from steel rod with my bench top lathe, then blackened them by heating red hot and quenching in used motor oil three times.
When fitting to the stock I found that the c-bores in the stock were uneven depths so each cup was custom fit to a tight press fit in the wood.
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"i would have to really up the magnification to 24-32 to be any tighter at 50 yards."
When I first sold a home tuned .177 R9 my brother shot these two 50 yard groups using his scope set to 9x........
Years ago we only used 4x scopes with our center fires and I've seen my brother shoot 6mm clover leafs at 100 yards. Myself, not so good, the best I could do at 100 yards was 3/4" ctc with a .243 cal.
IMHO, scope power really isn't an issue at normal airgun distances!
When I first sold a home tuned .177 R9 my brother shot these two 50 yard groups using his scope set to 9x........
Years ago we only used 4x scopes with our center fires and I've seen my brother shoot 6mm clover leafs at 100 yards. Myself, not so good, the best I could do at 100 yards was 3/4" ctc with a .243 cal.
IMHO, scope power really isn't an issue at normal airgun distances!
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Here is my 2 cents about the question ,how to get the most accuracy out of a gas ram or ''springer''. I think the first thing you have to do is shoot the gun . By that I mean put some time behind the trigger and your eye behind the scope or open sight. There is nothing more important than knowing your gun . Knowing your trigger ,knowing where what ever pellet you pick is going to hit at every yard out to 100 yards to start off with . If your using a scope make a click chart . Learn where the pellet is going to hit and match that to your turret location . To start off with just use one pellet . Use a pellet that is easy to get something like a crosman dome or crosman hollow point . Something cheap but pretty accurate. What you want to do at first is be able to shoot a lot so you know where to adjust the turret to at any given distance . I would get a scope with a adjustable parallax ,one that can adjust down to 10 yards . The first thing you want to do when you mount the scope is mark your parallax wheel or bell. Set out pop cans at one yard spacing starting at 10 yards from where your setting out to 50 yards to start off with . Turn your parallax till it focuses perfectly on the can at 10 yards and mark that on your wheel tape or your bell tape . Then focus on the 11 yard can and mark where it comes into perfect focus do this for all 50 cans . Then move back 50 yards and do the same thing out to 100 yards to start off with . By doing this you will know what distance your target is at out to 100 yards . On cold days or rainy days just practice focusing on a target you pick like a tree or car or just anything just to get use to finding your target and focusing in on it till its in perfect focus . Once you have your parallax set and marked you can start shooting . Start off at 10 yards. adjust your turrets till your crosshairs match where your pellet is hitting most of the time. Make a click chart and write down the turret's locations. Don't spend a lot of time trying to get one hold shots just get it so your close . Then start moving back one yard at a time. Mark every yard on the click chart . out to 100 yards . Starting off with a goal to get the best grouping you can with the pellet you have out to 100 yard is a good start . Now you have 10 to 100 yards to practice with . Learn your turrets . Let me say one thing about turrets. pick a scope that the turrets move up and down . turrets that just spin round and round are hard to keep up with what rotation your on . Get a scope with a turret that will move up and down and that have marks on the stem the more marks the better . when your making your click chart you will need to mark the rotation mark as well as the click number . Once you know about where your pellet is going to hit at any distance out to 100 yards by turning your turrets you can start trying to be more accurate at the different distances . I would do all this setting up on a table with a sand bag and let the stock set on the bag and the back of the gun on your shoulder and your off hand under the lowest part of the gun stock . Just let the gun move how it wants over the sand bag ,don't try to keep it from moving just let it recoil . If you try to make to tight of a group right off the bat your not going to do anything but get frustrated . Take 10 to 20 shots at each yard and move on to the next yard . Don't be afraid to change your click chart if you see your grouping in a different place than what you were grouping go ahead and change your numbers , more than likely your starting to repeat your shooting style so your becoming more accurate and thats what your working on doing .When your just starting off make another click chart so you can see the differences in the numbers . What you want to be able to do at first is to focus on your target look at the wheel and see your distance look at your click chart turn the turret to that setting and try to get 10 pellet as close to the cross hair as you can at that distance . Before long you will know what kind of group size your gun, pellet , holding and trigger pull is possible at any given yard . Once you shoot enough and you know the pellet should he hitting where your aiming then try some other pellets, but wait till you know for sure its not you ,knowing its not you takes a lot of shooting a lot of shooting . Be sure to make a click chart for each pellet you use . You might find out with one pellet you have good grouping at 50 yards but not at 60 and you get better grouping with another pellet at 60 . make notes on your click charts what your group sizes are at every distance on all the charts you make . I have a click chart for every different pellet I have . If I get a different pellet I make a new chart . This way I can use all the pellets I have and get it close to what I'm aiming at at any given distance . Your going to find out that accuracy comes from knowing where your pellet is going to hit and any given distance with your shooting style ,because your setting your cross hairs to match the pellets flight with your own holding technique . The more you can repeat yourself from shot to shot the more accurate your going to be . I wouldn't think of it as getting the most accuracy out of the gun as much as I would getting accuracy from yourself .
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A few comments........In general I agree with your comments except for this as it pertains to piston guns (i.e. gas ram or springer)......"By doing this you will know what distance your target is at out to 100 yards"
Here is a pic of a side wheel for a high magnification scope used for field target competition.........
Notice the small clearance between the 54 yard and 55 yard sharp focus on this Yugo hubcap size side wheel. LOL I doubt that even with a trash can lid size side wheel and a scope similar to the cameras on the Lockheed SR-71 Black Bird spy plane could resolve between 95 and 100 yards where a PELLET is dropping several inches per yard. Matter of fact I really don't think you'll get 2 yard "distance resolution" at 80 yards where the pellet is falling inches per yard, even with a $4400 8-80x56 March Tactical scope set at 80x. I have seen a couple of these on the field target circuit where 55 yards is the max target distance, however all were on high end PCPs, not piston guns.
http://marchscopes.com/tactical-8-80-x-56-x.html
A second comment is that out to 50 yards, even with my 13fpe HW95, a pop can is too big to have any relevance to the accuracy needed for setting up a scope rangefind. LOL....with my HW95 zero'd at my normal 30 yards I could aim near the top of a soda can from 10 yards well past 50 yards and put a pellet through it without even clicking on or changing my aiming point at all. Matter of fact, if you look at the 165 shot target I attached to a previous reply you'll notice that the pellet from a .177 13fpe R9 only dropped about 1 1/2" lower than the 30 yard zero so I think that even if the can were a Vienna sausage can I could aim near the top and still hit it out to 50 yards without changing the holdover.
Anywhoo.....most shooters on the field target courses mark their scopes in yards like this......
Since I only shoot piston hunter class field target which is limited to 12x max scope setting I use a simpler system by just marking the sharp focus distance for the point of impact. That way there is no need to refer to a dope sheet for the proper holdover........I simply read it off the sidewheel or AO......
Here is a pic of a side wheel for a high magnification scope used for field target competition.........
Notice the small clearance between the 54 yard and 55 yard sharp focus on this Yugo hubcap size side wheel. LOL I doubt that even with a trash can lid size side wheel and a scope similar to the cameras on the Lockheed SR-71 Black Bird spy plane could resolve between 95 and 100 yards where a PELLET is dropping several inches per yard. Matter of fact I really don't think you'll get 2 yard "distance resolution" at 80 yards where the pellet is falling inches per yard, even with a $4400 8-80x56 March Tactical scope set at 80x. I have seen a couple of these on the field target circuit where 55 yards is the max target distance, however all were on high end PCPs, not piston guns.
http://marchscopes.com/tactical-8-80-x-56-x.html
A second comment is that out to 50 yards, even with my 13fpe HW95, a pop can is too big to have any relevance to the accuracy needed for setting up a scope rangefind. LOL....with my HW95 zero'd at my normal 30 yards I could aim near the top of a soda can from 10 yards well past 50 yards and put a pellet through it without even clicking on or changing my aiming point at all. Matter of fact, if you look at the 165 shot target I attached to a previous reply you'll notice that the pellet from a .177 13fpe R9 only dropped about 1 1/2" lower than the 30 yard zero so I think that even if the can were a Vienna sausage can I could aim near the top and still hit it out to 50 yards without changing the holdover.
Anywhoo.....most shooters on the field target courses mark their scopes in yards like this......
Since I only shoot piston hunter class field target which is limited to 12x max scope setting I use a simpler system by just marking the sharp focus distance for the point of impact. That way there is no need to refer to a dope sheet for the proper holdover........I simply read it off the sidewheel or AO......
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