Which is why we use the barrel and ammo combination that produces the smallest group possible.Great….but no serious BR shooter is hoping to catch the 9, 8, or 7. 10s win the match.
Mike
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Which is why we use the barrel and ammo combination that produces the smallest group possible.Great….but no serious BR shooter is hoping to catch the 9, 8, or 7. 10s win the match.
Mike
i take two of your rifles, same model, same tune, same ammo and test each via the process delineated in my original post. Both produce the same group size. Which of these two groups has the highest probability of hitting the 10 ring?Group size does not tell the tale.
The number of shots that can connect with the 10 if the proper windage is used is the determining factor. You can have 2 25 shot groups that measure the same size and one of them can have double the opportunities to connect with the 10. It happens all the time.
Mike
If both of your rifles shot the same group size over 25 meters outdoors, one can deduce that the wind was close to calm. Now if i test an FX Impact M3 in the same conditions and as delineated in my first post and it produced a smaller group size, which of the three rifles would you compete with?There is no way of telling if you don’t examine each shot individually.
Groups are random projections and measuring the 2 furthest points does not tell you anything about the other 23 shots except that they are somewhere inside the furthest two.
Plus… your test does not make each shot taken from each rifle in the exact same wind condition. You are no longer comparing apples to apples.
Mike
Here is a simple way of pretty reliably determining how guns compare to each other by taking the shooter out of the equation. Most don’t have indoor ranges, so this method will work for anyone at any distance and it’s not dependent on good conditions.
Set up two benches side by side and as close together as possible. Have two shooters point at the middle of their own bull and fire the rifles to be compared at the exact same moment for 25 shots. You can just count down from 3 or something.
To analyze the groups you are just going to draw straight left and right lines from the shots to the 10 ring. If the targets are scored with a plug, take that diameter into account. What you are trying to determine is the number of shots that have the opportunity to touch the 10 ring if the appropriate left/right hold for wind is made. A gun that has 20 opportunities to catch the 10 will almost always beat a gun that only has 10 even if the shooter with the 10 gun is better at reading wind.
Because of the way certain targets are configured….a very small reduction in 25 shot group size can net way more opportunities to catch the 10. If you asked someone if they wanted 10 tries to hit the 10 ring or 20….nobody will pick 10. However, this is exactly the scenario that unfolds at every BR match ever held.
The “It’s the Indian and not the Arrow” philosophy as it pertains to BR is incredibly naive.
Mike
You can’t use group size. Group size is the measure of the 2 furthest shots. You have to look at the shots individually. A .35” group may have just as many opportunities to catch the 10 as a .5” group. It depends on the size of the 10 ring. Follow my directions in the first post. Instead of making up hypothetical groups …post a real 25 shot groups and we can go through the process.
Mike
Group size does not tell the tale.
The number of shots that can connect with the 10 if the proper windage is used is the determining factor. You can have 2 25 shot groups that measure the same size and one of them can have double the opportunities to connect with the 10. It happens all the time.
Mike
Tommy….Here is a visual of the example.
When you look at the top row…you probably think these look about the same.
Now we measure group size in the second row. Ok…the group on the right is smaller.
Now we look to see how many have the opportunity to connect with the 10 if we make a good wind call and hold in 3rd row.
The group on the left has 8 opportunities to catch a 10 while the group on the right only 3.
I want more chances to get a 10. View attachment 335373
Mike
a harmonic barrel tuner like the one I make and sell makes even crappy pellets shoot better at least in the vertical component.This post is about how to determine what is good equipment without an indoor range at your disciplines distance.
Small differences in VERTICAL group size can make the number of opportunities you have at catching a 10 dramatically increase or decrease. This is a good way of being able to see it and compare it.
Mike
Excellent explanation. I think you might also want to let the "10" ring float (vertically) into the densest area of your shots. This would show how far you should adjust your sights to get the most 10's. In your example, the sights on the gun on the right are not set properly to result in the most 10's being shot. Raising the rear sight a bit would result in a much higher 10-count.Tommy….Here is a visual of the example.
When you look at the top row…you probably think these look about the same.
Now we measure group size in the second row. Ok…the group on the right is smaller.
Now we look to see how many have the opportunity to connect with the 10 if we make a good wind call and hold in 3rd row.
The group on the left has 8 opportunities to catch a 10 while the group on the right only 3.
I want more chances to get a 10. View attachment 335373
Mike