How Much is That?

[EDgun]

Just to be fair, I shot that gun while castbullet had it and there is no way it would put three touching at 50 yards, the gun was throwing fliers, it was shooting 2 inch groups at 50. I'm not disputing your word but I shot the gun, I know what it was doing. You obviously fixed the problem and shot that group. Why don't you take pictures of the baffles inside the moderator where it was clipping and post them here? Castbullet is probably the most honest guy I know, don't try to make him look like a liar. If you hadn't been so short with him on the phone, he would have fixed the gun himself and kept it. Th man has a lathe and a mill and is a skilled smith, it's just the principle of the deal, it should have never been shipped out like that, you obviously didn't test the gun prior to shipping.

So for interupting but I would like just to say about the buffles. You probably have no idea how they are made. They are cast of plastic. The mold is for .177 caliber. so, all the moderators inserts are drilled through with the special made drill to have bigger whole, then with the special hook sharper the shavings are taking off the buffles. That is made with the hands so there are prints on the buffles which can be considered by unexperienced user as the "clipping" in fact if there is "clipping" I doubt one can make even half an A4 size list at 50 yards. I know as I have shot hundreds and hundres thousands shot with airgun for 15 years.



I have nothing against your ability to shoot, but again based on my experience I fell in the same situations, when somebody told me "the gun is not accurate" and I got very good results with it. The best few times were when the client went to me with the gun, I took it out of the softcase and even with his air in and his pellets made 9 shots group of 17 mm by edges for 50 meters. The client just said "poop! How?!" I just told him "I'd recommend you to change the scope..." One more -- i don't make any hints that you are not good shooter, that is just my experience.



As for laminated stocks. Quite easy explanation! Brian gets the guns in walnut stocks. Once I had no walnut stocks availalbe and offered him the guns assembled with the laminated stocks. He agreed and got some guns with the laminated stocks as default. Then he decided to buy some extra laminated stocks. So he sells them as extra goods, and have no obligation to install them on the gun, based on the requirement of the customer. In this case what would he do with the walnut stocks left? 



As for the shipping cost. You know that sometimes it is quite wierd, they can take more money for the envelope that for the box So, I just issue the shipping cost to my clients as it is, that is not the ited I earn money on, I just issue as it is, in fact. So I doubt that Brian add something to it.



Anyhow I think that everything can be solved out if both sides have the intention to solve the problem or what one of the part considers as problem, instead ot being at once ready for the fight for "the rights". 



With the best regards



Ed

 

[2manyAirGunz]

Check this out:

My Vulcan Tactic .22 caliber routinely shoots 5 shot groups like that at 55 yards. This accounts for my high regard for this brand. That and this package consisting of:

Sumo Sound Moderator, Picatinny Rail, UTG Recon Bipod on a Vulcan2 .30 Laminate all for less than $2K,

 SHIPPED, from Talon Tunes.

 

[2manyAirGunz]

Excerpt from post by Ed;

"... So he sells them as extra goods, and have no obligation to install them on the gun, based on the requirement of the customer..."

~~~~~~~~~~~~

'Nuff said. I'm convinced, now, more than ever that I made the correct decision in moving on to a another airgun brand. It's always good to know where the other party is coming from. No hard feelings. 

 

[EDgun]

'Nuff said. I'm convinced, now, more than ever that I made the correct decision in moving on to a another airgun brand. It's always good to know where the other party is coming from. No hard feelings.

I have always been a supporter of free will idea and have never persuaded anyone to buy what I make. I can just wish you good luck and hope you will be happy with whatever gun you choose

 

[2manyAirGunz]

'Nuff said. I'm convinced, now, more than ever that I made the correct decision in moving on to a another airgun brand. It's always good to know where the other party is coming from. No hard feelings.

I have always been a supporter of free will idea and have never persuaded anyone to buy what I make. I can just wish you good luck and hope you will be happy with whatever gun you choose

My mistake. Somehow, I always believed that the goal of manufacturers was to encourage and ...persuade, consumers to purchase said manufacturers' goods.

I must commend you, however, in your success at accomplishing your goal of -- "never persuading" -- this airgun addict to buy anything that you make.


хорошего дня

 

[davidsng]

Castbullet,

You rented an $1800 airgun for only$75? Found you did not like it and returned it. What's the problem? If could find a place to rent air rifles out for $75, test them out, them return them if I did not like it, or it did not preform the way I expected- I would have saved a lot of $.

I bought an Ataman .357 from a member that has commented on this same thread. It also had several accuracy problems. One,I figured out on my own. The other problem, was a messed up scope mount that I friend noticed that I did not. Once that was fixed, I then noticed the gun was shooting almost half the power than it should have had. It also had a 50fps spread. This problem, I could not figure it out. Long story short, I sent to a professional and he found the problem. In the end, it cost me way more than what I would have paid new one, and it is taking me 3 months for the parts I need, and a still have to pay the professional.

Ataman does not even have an office in the US, or anyone to even call for advice. I was on my own with the gun. If they would have had an office, a maintenance team, or any employee (let alone a company owner) to speak with- I would have been HAPPY to pay $75 to ship it to them for repair and paid for repairs, or returned it for only $75 out of my pocket. Now, I will miss almost all of my coyote season now and out tons of money.

Bottom line, I feel you feel lucky you had Brian and Ed backing you up (even if it costed you $75). You fared way better than what I did. Hope that makes you guy a little more happy.

 

[EDgun]

My mistake. Somehow, I always believed that the goal of manufacturers was to encourage and ...persuade, consumers to purchase said manufacturers' goods.

I must commend you, however, in your success at accomplishing your goal of -- "never persuading" -- this airgun addict to buy anything that you make.

хорошего дня

Being a stupid manufacturer who still thinks by the reality of the hobby, with my concern about the guns, I refuse to play the "normal" rules of the game, as I think that it kills the hobby. That is a great difference between those who tell you something because they are really keen about the subject and those who do it just to be paid. I don’t know about you, but I prefer to deal with the company which just gives me the complete technical characteristics of the goods, rather than using marketers who can wrap the poop in the gift wrapper.



So, I know that I’m being too naïve to think I can break the system, but since I can afford it, why should I play the game I hate? I always think that those who buy my guns are real men, who have their own opinions and make their choices based on facts, but not lead by the marketers. Anyhow for now some things work that way.



I read the adv slogans with the words "The unique... ", "This innovative system..." and so on, you know such slogans youself, I am sure and I laugh as I know what it is all about. I am inside that world, I know many of those who makes guns for you and when I am asked for example "Ed, why did you use six bearings in your gun?! and I start explaining "You know I thought that it should improve the smoothness of the movement the cocking carrier, and that will not touch the barrel and...." I was interupted with the words "Are you idiot? Why? They will eat everything we make, just with the right words said in the right way!"



OK, I know they are completely right, you will eat! Not all of you, not at all, but many... So, I just consider that kind of the game humiliating both for me as manufacturer as going that way I have to admit to myself that I make poop and I just need to sell it by any means and for those who buys my guns as acting that way I will know that I cheat on them! That is the only reason why I refuse to PERSUADE anybody to buy what I make! I too respect myself and the people who I work with to use any means just to get my piece of that airgun market cake!



Am I wrong from the classical capitalism point of view? No doubt I am! I admit it and I know it for sure! Do I suffer of that fact? No way! I know that I don't owe anybody, first of all in the moral way. If a person has bought my gun he's made it himself, without any pushing from my side, clear or hidden and he is the only who is respecting his choice! 



Am I making perfect guns? No way, and I never tell that, I just can tell that I do my best to make my guns as good as I can at the present time with the present tools I have and I never stop improving them, that is the only thing I can say. Do I make mistakes? Sure I do, I am just human being and mistakes is the normal part of the development. 



So I hope I am clear enough why I don't want PERSUADE anybody!



With the best regards



Ed

 

[ctshooter]

You go Ed! This is why I bought your gun and not an FX.

 

[Peskådot671]

2manyAirGunz,

Could you imagine how much people pay for shipping who live outside of the 48 Contiguous States? I'm from Guam. Most airgun and firearm companies won't even ship to my location. The most affordable way to ship merchandise here is via USPS Air. Priority Mail or First Class.

Anything over 70 pounds and I would have to use a freight forwarder which cost hundreds of dollars. If I really want it, I pay for it. Like the saying goes, "It's worth what people are willing to pay for it".

When I place an order over the phone or via website, I always ask or check how much the shipping cost is. If I really want it, I'll buy it. Do I like it? Not at all. For most of us, this is a hobby after all although some people want to get the best airgun they can afford for serious pest control.

I never come on here and complain that something cost too much. I may say stuff like, "That's an awesome airgun! I wish that I had the funds for it".

Take the Daystate Redwolf and the separate programmer for example. That poop's expensive but I wouldn't come on here and bash them because I couldn't afford it.

In regards to Brian at Edgun West, he has always answered my emails and phone calls. Try calling AoA lol. If you do a search here for Edgun West under "Dealer & Manufacturer Feedback", you'll see a lot of positive feedback about Brian. 

BTW, this is a 5 shot group at 75 yards with my Edgun R5M Matador Standard in .25cal;

 

[2manyAirGunz]

2manyAirGunz,

Could you imagine how much people pay for shipping who live outside of the 48 Contiguous States? I'm from Guam. Most airgun and firearm companies won't even ship to my location. The most affordable way to ship merchandise here is via USPS Air. Priority Mail or First Class.

Anything over 70 pounds and I would have to use a freight forwarder which cost hundreds of dollars. If I really want it, I pay for it. Like the saying goes, "It's worth what people are willing to pay for it".

When I place an order over the phone or via website, I always ask or check how much the shipping cost is. If I really want it, I'll buy it. Do I like it? Not at all. For most of us, this is a hobby after all although some people want to get the best airgun they can afford for serious pest control.

I never come on here and complain that something cost too much. I may say stuff like, "That's an awesome airgun! I wish that I had the funds for it".

Take the Daystate Redwolf and the separate programmer for example. That poop's expensive but I wouldn't come on here and bash them because I couldn't afford it.

In regards to Brian at Edgun West, he has always answered my emails and phone calls. Try calling AoA lol. If you do a search here for Edgun West under "Dealer & Manufacturer Feedback", you'll see a lot of positive feedback about Brian. 

BTW, this is a 5 shot group at 75 yards with my Edgun R5M Matador Standard in .25cal;

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just to be certain that I make myself clear.

Over the last 4 years, since I bought my first airgun, I have spent in excess of $45,000 on air rifles and accessories for those rifles. I imagine over the next couple of years, I will spend $10s of thousands more on this hobby. 

I will spend the money to purchase exactly what I want, with no regret. What I will object to, is when I believe that some vendor is unethically taking advantage of me or any other customer. 

I posted my experience about the vendor in question, explaining the details as I recall them. I also made my opinion about this situation quite clear. 

If you feel that constitutes my complaining about something because I cannot afford it, so-be-it. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Maybe that is the result of my ineptitude in expressing myself.

This site is a valuable asset and I truly appreciate the opportunity to express my opinion.

If I have abused this opportunity to air my grievance, I sincerely apologize.

Al

 

[tsp3355]

I have never bought anything from Brian, but I do mail a lot stuff via USPS. The invoice above says shipping is USPS Priority. I assume that is Priority Mail 2 day service. Below are the USPS Priority mail rates for flat rate boxes. Rates are similar if you use your own packaging. I assume it was also insured. If so, add another 6 or 7$. Depending on the box it was shipped in what he charged might be a little more than what the post office cost was, but it doesn't seem excessive to me.

 

[Lowkey]

“Off topic question for EDgun”. Have you decided if you will continue making the R5 .30 cal ? and if so will you ever Make it with a left-handed cocky bolt ?

 

[NoLandBeyond]

I have had a different experience with EDgun West. I have made several purchases from Brian including the R5 30 cal, R5M 25 cal laminate, Lelya 2.0 25 cal laminate, regulators, ammo, two scopes, and other R5 accessories. Thousands of dollars and no regrets. Communication was fast and very good on both ends. I always placed my orders online even though I texted with Brian before and after my purchases. He was prompt to correct any shipping mishaps like I had with a large ammo order with some damaged tins. All at no extra cost. I live in Mississippi so go figure the cost of shipping from California via FedEx and USPS priority shipping. 

I never complained about shipping costs and never felt taken advantage of in that regard. I always chose the cheapest shipping option and my items arrived as expected. 

In regards to preorders, even though I would put my name on the wait list with him, I periodically checked in with Brian for any updates and also did my due diligence to check his website. As a result I never missed a deal or a purchase as a result. 

I’ve placed preorders with OpticsPlanet and AirgunDepot before and they have been terrible in communicating with me in regards to when something would be in stock. I realized I had to make the effort and call them instead of waiting for an email or phone call. 

Regarding the laminate stock option, I purchased both the R5M and Lelya in laminate when they were available as I knew that this was a special order that Brian received due to quality issues described above regarding the walnut stocks. I was not expecting Ed to offer the laminate stocks as standard on upcoming guns for the same price as walnut. 

For you to think you’d get a laminate R5M for the same price I did last year was naive on your part and I guarantee you Brian didn’t promise you a laminate R5M for the same price as the standard R5M walnut. Not once the original order of laminate R5M’s and Lelyas sold out. 

Just to prove a point, look at FX for example. Their walnut stock options are several hundred dollars cheaper than the laminate option. And it’s difficult to just outright purchase a laminate stock for a Crown or Streamline. I bet you they’d cost you more than $200. 

I’m not paid by Brian or Ed to say this. These are my observations through direct experience and common sense. 

 

[sonny]

I had a issue with a Hawke scope, It was 5yrs old and the problem could have been caused by the rings i used? They replaced the scope with an upgrade for free no questions asked. Now thats what i call customer service.

 

[2manyAirGunz]

I have had a different experience with EDgun West. I have made several purchases from Brian including the R5 30 cal, R5M 25 cal laminate, Lelya 2.0 25 cal laminate, regulators, ammo, two scopes, and other R5 accessories. Thousands of dollars and no regrets. Communication was fast and very good on both ends. I always placed my orders online even though I texted with Brian before and after my purchases. He was prompt to correct any shipping mishaps like I had with a large ammo order with some damaged tins. All at no extra cost. I live in Mississippi so go figure the cost of shipping from California via FedEx and USPS priority shipping. 

I never complained about shipping costs and never felt taken advantage of in that regard. I always chose the cheapest shipping option and my items arrived as expected. 

In regards to preorders, even though I would put my name on the wait list with him, I periodically checked in with Brian for any updates and also did my due diligence to check his website. As a result I never missed a deal or a purchase as a result. 

I’ve placed preorders with OpticsPlanet and AirgunDepot before and they have been terrible in communicating with me in regards to when something would be in stock. I realized I had to make the effort and call them instead of waiting for an email or phone call. 

Regarding the laminate stock option, I purchased both the R5M and Lelya in laminate when they were available as I knew that this was a special order that Brian received due to quality issues described above regarding the walnut stocks. I was not expecting Ed to offer the laminate stocks as standard on upcoming guns for the same price as walnut. 

For you to think you’d get a laminate R5M for the same price I did last year was naive on your part and I guarantee you Brian didn’t promise you a laminate R5M for the same price as the standard R5M walnut. Not once the original order of laminate R5M’s and Lelyas sold out. 

Just to prove a point, look at FX for example. Their walnut stock options are several hundred dollars cheaper than the laminate option. And it’s difficult to just outright purchase a laminate stock for a Crown or Streamline. I bet you they’d cost you more than $200. 

I’m not paid by Brian or Ed to say this. These are my observations through direct experience and common sense.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As much as I find distasteful about this type of business practice, I was at the point of just dropping this matter. However, nothing gets my goat more than having my comments mischaracterized.

So...

Did you happen to read the following excerpt from my OP?:

"This is Brian's business. He is free to charge whatever he can get for his merchandise. I've moved on. My next bullpup, to be purchased next week, will be the custom, hydro dipped FX Wildcat .30 caliber from Utah Airguns.?"

So you think that I'm naive to expect to get an R5M with the laminate stock for the price that Brian had it listed for on his EDgun West website for several weeks -- right up until the point that the new shipment of rifles came in.

Maybe you have a point -- I should not expect an online vendor to operate ethically. I.e. no BAIT and SWITCH tactics. My bad. Now I know.

You insinuate that I was somehow negligent in not checking EDguns West site keeping abreast of the merchandise availability. For the record: I was very interested in acquiring this bullpup -- after admiring your gun in the comments you posted. And I checked daily to see if the R5M Matador was available. The following is what saw for weeks on EDgun West site: A picture of blue laminate R5M Maatdor and another picture of a red laminate R5M Matador. Both guns were listed at $1875, with "Out of stock" printed underneath that in red letters.

I spoke with Brian by phone approximately 2 weeks before the current shipment came in. He had every opportunity then, to inform me of what amounts to a price hike when the guns came in. He did not.

I'm glad that your experiences with Brian have been positive and I admire your loyalty. I feel the same for UA, due to the straight-forward and up-front manner in which they have dealt with me.

Al

 

[Dairyboy]

Not sure why you keep thinking it was a price hike? Brian didn't take the hit on selling the laminate R5Ms at same price as the walnut ones. Ed did that and was his choice as stated didn't have walnut ones at the time. They come standard in walnut but because of issues some got lucky and got laminate at that price. Others didn't. That's not on Brian. I bought one with a walnut stock. Decided I wanted a laminate and bought the extra stock. Well worth it to me and fine if it's not to you but not sure why you think it's a bait and switch.

 

[2manyAirGunz]

I'm glad that you're pleased with your gun. I'm pleased with my FX Wildcat .25 caliber, and my Vulcan .30 caliber, Laminate ($1649). My experience with my other FX products is the precise reason I am certain I will be very pleased with the FX Wildcat .30 Hydro- dipped, that I will purchase for $1525 -- this week from UA --- the exact price they list for on their web site.

 

[castbullet]

Just to be fair, I shot that gun while castbullet had it and there is no way it would put three touching at 50 yards, the gun was throwing fliers, it was shooting 2 inch groups at 50. I'm not disputing your word but I shot the gun, I know what it was doing. You obviously fixed the problem and shot that group. Why don't you take pictures of the baffles inside the moderator where it was clipping and post them here? Castbullet is probably the most honest guy I know, don't try to make him look like a liar. If you hadn't been so short with him on the phone, he would have fixed the gun himself and kept it. Th man has a lathe and a mill and is a skilled smith, it's just the principle of the deal, it should have never been shipped out like that, you obviously didn't test the gun prior to shipping.

So for interupting but I would like just to say about the buffles. You probably have no idea how they are made. They are cast of plastic. The mold is for .177 caliber. so, all the moderators inserts are drilled through with the special made drill to have bigger whole, then with the special hook sharper the shavings are taking off the buffles. That is made with the hands so there are prints on the buffles which can be considered by unexperienced user as the "clipping" in fact if there is "clipping" I doubt one can make even half an A4 size list at 50 yards. I know as I have shot hundreds and hundres thousands shot with airgun for 15 years.



I have nothing against your ability to shoot, but again based on my experience I fell in the same situations, when somebody told me "the gun is not accurate" and I got very good results with it. The best few times were when the client went to me with the gun, I took it out of the softcase and even with his air in and his pellets made 9 shots group of 17 mm by edges for 50 meters. The client just said "poop! How?!" I just told him "I'd recommend you to change the scope..." One more -- i don't make any hints that you are not good shooter, that is just my experience.



As for laminated stocks. Quite easy explanation! Brian gets the guns in walnut stocks. Once I had no walnut stocks availalbe and offered him the guns assembled with the laminated stocks. He agreed and got some guns with the laminated stocks as default. Then he decided to buy some extra laminated stocks. So he sells them as extra goods, and have no obligation to install them on the gun, based on the requirement of the customer. In this case what would he do with the walnut stocks left? 



As for the shipping cost. You know that sometimes it is quite wierd, they can take more money for the envelope that for the box So, I just issue the shipping cost to my clients as it is, that is not the ited I earn money on, I just issue as it is, in fact. So I doubt that Brian add something to it.



Anyhow I think that everything can be solved out if both sides have the intention to solve the problem or what one of the part considers as problem, instead ot being at once ready for the fight for "the rights". 



With the best regards

Ed

 

[castbullet]

Just to be fair, I shot that gun while castbullet had it and there is no way it would put three touching at 50 yards, the gun was throwing fliers, it was shooting 2 inch groups at 50. I'm not disputing your word but I shot the gun, I know what it was doing. You obviously fixed the problem and shot that group. Why don't you take pictures of the baffles inside the moderator where it was clipping and post them here? Castbullet is probably the most honest guy I know, don't try to make him look like a liar. If you hadn't been so short with him on the phone, he would have fixed the gun himself and kept it. Th man has a lathe and a mill and is a skilled smith, it's just the principle of the deal, it should have never been shipped out like that, you obviously didn't test the gun prior to shipping.

So for interupting but I would like just to say about the buffles. You probably have no idea how they are made. They are cast of plastic. The mold is for .177 caliber. so, all the moderators inserts are drilled through with the special made drill to have bigger whole, then with the special hook sharper the shavings are taking off the buffles. That is made with the hands so there are prints on the buffles which can be considered by unexperienced user as the "clipping" in fact if there is "clipping" I doubt one can make even half an A4 size list at 50 yards. I know as I have shot hundreds and hundres thousands shot with airgun for 15 years.



I have nothing against your ability to shoot, but again based on my experience I fell in the same situations, when somebody told me "the gun is not accurate" and I got very good results with it. The best few times were when the client went to me with the gun, I took it out of the softcase and even with his air in and his pellets made 9 shots group of 17 mm by edges for 50 meters. The client just said "poop! How?!" I just told him "I'd recommend you to change the scope..." One more -- i don't make any hints that you are not good shooter, that is just my experience.



As for laminated stocks. Quite easy explanation! Brian gets the guns in walnut stocks. Once I had no walnut stocks availalbe and offered him the guns assembled with the laminated stocks. He agreed and got some guns with the laminated stocks as default. Then he decided to buy some extra laminated stocks. So he sells them as extra goods, and have no obligation to install them on the gun, based on the requirement of the customer. In this case what would he do with the walnut stocks left? 



As for the shipping cost. You know that sometimes it is quite wierd, they can take more money for the envelope that for the box So, I just issue the shipping cost to my clients as it is, that is not the ited I earn money on, I just issue as it is, in fact. So I doubt that Brian add something to it.



Anyhow I think that everything can be solved out if both sides have the intention to solve the problem or what one of the part considers as problem, instead ot being at once ready for the fight for "the rights". 



With the best regards

Ed

I may need to clear something up this was a moderator that you no longer offered Ed Gun and Brian said he had them manufactured here in the US it was one of the eccentric ones made of aluminum. That he added prior to shipping the rifle. But did see the what you are talking about the plastic ones that had been removed and shipped with the gun. I never shot the rifle in its original configuration. And the problem more than likely moderator and not the gun at all. Referring back to what Scubajeeper said I could have fixed the moderator myself but it was the principle that I should not have to work a on gun that cost over 1400.00 as shipped with moderator installed. 

Thank CB

 

[Dairyboy]

- the exact price they list for on their web site.

Just stating the fact I paid the exact price they list on their website as well. Enjoy your other airguns!