How high do you make the threshold?

[ironlion269]

Air guns, and sports they provide, are exploding here in the U.S. as well as in many other parts of the World. What a great time to discover (or, rediscover) the joy and challenge of airgunning. People are coming to AGN from all over, asking for opinions, looking for fixes and mods, and basically clamoring for entry into the air gun community. So often a newbie comes onto AGN with some variation of, "What should I buy to get into airgunning?" and the whole cycle of "what do you want to do?" and "how much do you have to spend?" starts up.

I have, honestly, been dismayed at the frequent advice given to newbies to save up more money and buy a "quality gun" and not some low-end spring rifle or CO2 gun that'll just become yesterday's news in no time. Here we have people new to air guns asking us how to dip their toes in the pool and the first thing they hear is "save up more money than you ever imagined you'd need to start, all so you can buy a 'nicer' gun for a sport you haven't tried out yet." That response is just raising the threshold for entry into airgunning to unnecessary heights.

When someone asks me about my magnum spring rifles (and I've received LOTS of questions from people at the local gun club every time I've shot there) I am happy, excited in fact, to share with them the details of what the gun is, how it works, how economical it is to buy, maintain, and shoot, and how it totally fits the 10-to-100 yard layout of the club's Pistol & Rifle Range. I don't say anything about my Benjamin Summit being a low-end spring rifle, much less my sub-$100 Crosman Fire. Both guns are well made, accurate to the point that I am only now developing the skills necessary to glimpse their full potentials, and readily available. In other words, they are part of a low threshold to airgunning: inexpensive enough for people to accept the cost even before they've experienced modern air gun sports yet with enough build quality to give a new shooter all of the excitement and satisfaction that airgunning can provide.

I have read (or heard via YouTube) the many, many AGN contributors who bemoan the wasted time and money they poured out on "cheap-ass scopes and guns" and who, for those reasons, advise curious newcomers to only consider the more costly equipment from the start. I don't agree with this approach. I advocate helping a newcomer to airgunning to find a solid, reliable gun that can meet his/her needs at the lowest reasonable price point that can be found. I trust people to learn and grow as they shoot, and some will move on to higher priced guns (or, Heaven forbid, a PCP!) while others will be happy with the initial gun and supplies.

I want to keep the threshold for entry into our airgunning community kept as low as is reasonable given the need for quality air guns and effective instruction in shooting technique and etiquette. My experience is that it is possible - even easy - to find a quality air gun for around $100 US and begin a lifetime of fun and fellowship among other shooting enthusiasts. There is no need, as I see it, to push newcomers toward the $250-$300 price points only because someone grew dissatisfied with purchases made earlier. Draw people into the sport and then let them decide what levels of performance and craftsmanship meet their needs, and at what cost.

 

[Bruce54]

Well said, Sir! I started with a Gamo springer and got hooked. Stepped up to a Benjamin Discovery, and learned a great deal about what is possible with airguns as I worked my way through many modifications. Just recently stepped up again with the purchase of a Marauder in .25 cal. What a hunter! None of my guns so far are considered top of the line but I have learned so much and had the most fun and hunting success I have ever experienced! I am retired and on a very limited budget but, believe me, you can totally enjoy airguns without "starting at the top"! Just go shooting!

 

[John "spysir" Blount]

I somewhat agree ( certainly do get what your saying ) but personally I do not think most "$100" airguns are the way to go for newbies.
One exception might be the QB78 if one can live with C02 or the QB79 for HPA, both under $100.00.Add $60.00 for the regulated bottle, $100.00 for a hand pump - I can never use one again but keep one just to show new people how easy it really is to pump up an airgun-. So about $250.00 to get a regulated pre-charged.

Springer's, ugh. Most of the wallymartr stuff is pretty bad, might be one or two model that can be worked on but out of the box I see nothing I would recommend.

Now a refurb RWS34 w/T-06 trigger for $189.00 would put a smile on any new comers face! Over $100.00 and well worth it esp. for newbies.
I always try to suggest to lowest cost options ( when folks seem to want that ) that A) have abetter trigger than most PB's. B) group as well or better than most PB's.



And the first advise I try to give new people is,

get with other airgun shooters! Go to a match, you WILL save time & money and learn SO much face to face.
check the members map, put yourself on it.
stop by my place ( nothing fancy but y'all are welcome to shoot em, and check out the booster, use a hand pump if you like ) I'm in Chewelah , WA.


John

 

[crittahitta]

Ironlion. I feel strongly on this subject. Both in agreement with what you said and not so much. I think new comers who come to this site and ask opinions on guns deserve to hear the truth. As much as I want new comers to the air gun community, I feel it is our duty to be honest about quality and expectations of their hard earned money. I have spent/wasted a good deal of money on guns that could have been put towards quality. I spent many hours/days trying to figure out why my cheap air gun couldn't hit a barn wall. I wish I had a place to ask someone about airguns back then. It would have saved me money, time and frustration. Now like you said I would never tell someone who just started out, to buy a high end springer or God forbid a PCP (LOL) but I feel the need to steer them in the direction of quality that will give them pleasure and the ability to hit what they are aiming at in a fair price range. I just wouldn't feel right telling someone that a less than $100 airgun from walmart is a good deal. I hope I don't sound disrespectful of your opinion. That is not my intention. 

 

[ironlion269]

@crittahitta, no hard feelings for a thoughtful and honest reply. I understand your point of view and respect it. I understand when others on the forum tell a newcomer to save up for a more costly gun in order to avoid the kind of frustrations you relate. Not all of my low-end purchases have worked out; I returned one sub-$100 gun the same day I bought it, only to trade it for a gun that I fell in love with. I still believe that keeping the threshold for entry into our sport as low as is reasonable is, in the long term, the best approach to growing the sport. I may be wrong or we may never know for sure what the best course was, but I have seen enough save-more-spend-more-or-your-experience-will-suck replies to worry me. So I've planted a flag in the public square that is AGN and will wait to see how the newcomers respond. Have a great time shooting and remember: The Law of Entropy assures us that hot air can't last forever!

 

[Alan]

I agree with CrittaHitta. 

For starters, a lot of newcomers are lead down the path of Nitro-piston airguns, and that is a VERY big mistake. Almost no one can make one shoot with a hoot, unless of course you're inside the barn CrittaHitta spoke about. On the other hand, CO2 and real springers can be VERY accurate. I have a .177 caliber Chinese springer clone I bought reconditioned for just $20 about 15 years ago. At 25 yards, using the supplied open sights, I can shoot better than 1 inch groups. It isn't powerful, but it will dispatch a squirrel without much fanfare. 

Getting into PCP is another example. If I knew what I know now, I would have gone right to the fountain and bought a decent-quality airgun, compressor, bottle, and a really good scope up front! As it was, I spend about $2,000 more than I should have just learning that the advice I had been given wasn't worth squat!

And I must say, the advice I got on another very popular airgun site was also poor, and echoed what CrittaHitta was alluding to. By the time I got to this site, I'd already learned which hardware was what. And speaking of which...

Opinions about which airgun, caliber, type, design, make, model, you name it, are ALWAYS BIASED! And I have learned, again the hard way, to pay no attention to opinions, especially so when brand and models are mentioned. 

 

[Keyman62421]

Buy an impact and never look back¡

 

[socaloldman]

This is a great thread. A lot of fine opinion laid out but missing the transition between springer and PCP. If we don't emphasize GOTTA HAVE AIR FIRST then the newbie will get put off, struggles and get discouraged. If he/she is moving into PCP then they need to make sure they budget for air. A fill shop, a tank, a pump ,or a compressor and that adds a minimum of several hundreds of dollars .

I thinks the manufacturers are rapidly moving into lower cost, higher quality PCPs with lower pressure requirements making them really pump friendly. I may not like one now but probably would have loved one to start with. It looks like the market is going to solve the problem for lots of beginners and the high end guys will still sell because that is the way thing are. A Ford or a BMW , An Accord or a Malibu. We like choice.

Buying used is a roadblock for most beginners because of fear. So new with warranty and a help source (real or imagined) smooths the roiled waters of indecision. Later on they will discover the awesome used market and great treasures abound.

 

[crittahitta]

I truly wish this forum existed when I got back into airguns. Some of the other ones I joined years and years ago made me feel unwelcome and ignorant/stupid. So I walked away. This is a great place for new comers to read and learn and make an informed decision before purchase. All in all I think we are all on the same page. 

Except Keyman62421 LOL i wish i could buy one. But I think my mortgage has to come first. lol

 

[Alan]

Well, I could say buy a Cobra, or Marauder, or AirArms, or.... This was exactly my point. 

As for the transition to PCP, you're correct. However, one would think the manufacturers are doing their best to make that choice in favor of a Nitro-piston. Maybe, with the introduction of lower costs PCP, that issue will be left to the likes of Big Five and other secondary marketplaces. 

If I have a worry, it is the safety of these lessor expensive PCPs. 

 

[xarus]

I wish I hadn't bought what I did when I started, a few more 100 dollars would have made my start into pcps a lot more enjoyable, I have always been a PB so whether I was going to enjoy air guns wasn't a concern if I had never shot a gun before then yes start out with less expensive gun to get your feet wet, it has to do with their experience and the likelihood to enjoy the sport is what determines price range.
the first gun I bought I hated it almost from start in a month I hated it and the people I had to deal with to get it, I degassed the gun and am letting the neighborhood kids bat rocks with it.
sorry for the little rant me and my FX Wildcat are going to ride off into the sunset now. peace and happy hunting.
Joel

 

[ironlion269]

When I resumed my air gun passion I started out with traditional steel spring guns. Had lots of fun, certainly enough to get caught in the growing current of airgunning and never look back. When I then discovered Nitro Piston guns, and later NP2 guns I was in my element. The gas ram guns are just a joy for me and for others on this forum who have shared their passion and experiences via posts and/or PMs with me. I certainly reject the contention that @Alan put out there regarding the unshootability of Nitro Piston guns; Nitro Piston guns are accurate, durable, affordable, and desirable as I and many others have proven. Truth to tell, it is exactly the kind of sweeping statement that @Alan made which I find most discouraging to newcomers and least informative to the air gun community at large. I have no intention of buying a PCP but still find it in me to tout the excellent performance and broad range of choices available to PCP shooters. Why, for the love of Pete, cannot everyone demonstrate the same level of grace and encouragement to aspects of airgunning which aren't "in my wheelhouse?" PCP prices, and the cost of the required accessories, are coming down, it's true. I am not blind to the trend in our sport towards pre-charged pneumatic guns - heck, I may eventually spurn my vows, throw off my springer collar, and embrace the Brotherhood of the Marauder myself. But I also pay attention to what is happening to the Middle Class in this country, where pure consumerism is giving way to reined-in dreams, scaled-back visions, and tighter cash flows. Will overall PCP costs drop quickly enough to fit into the new airgunner's market? A market that is expanding, but doing so among many people who see themselves stepping into the sport at a much lower threshold than elite shooters seem to understand.

Long term health of the air gun marketplace and all of the attendant services, supplies, and organizations that make airgunning so fun and accessible right now is dependent on capturing the interest, then passion, and finally financial commitment of an increasing audience all across the US - and there just ain't enough people able or willing to "save up a few hundred more to get a real gun". The air gun marketplace is expanding in all kinds of directions, but the foundation of that market was and still remains the lowly spring piston and CO2 guns. Those $50 CO2 pistols and $125 gas spring rifles are the most common, Plain Jane gals to ask to the dance. I say we STOP telling people to forget the Plain Janes and go for the Prom Queen or nothing and instead help the newbies understand how to whoo and respect the one what they brought to the dance.

 

[Quad82]

My 2 cents.
Times have changed. Being in my 50s now, I grew up getting a new model BB or pellet gun as they came out. It was what I asked for for Christmas or birthday presents. That was it. All that mattered! Growing up on my family's farms, shooting is all I did. Not to get in to " no computers, no cell phones etc..." Hunting and plinking was it. Besides playing baseball with the neighbors or fishing. I guess I should ad when I was given the time. Chores took a lot of time too. What I am getting at, is we learned as we grew up. Seems now, kids don't grow with the sport. Too many other things to keep busy with. So if they do get the bug, they, or mom and dad buy a hi-power springer and they find it disappointing to shoot. Maybe it was a pos, or they didn't know how to shoot it. Either way, the bug got forgotten as fast as it came. 

If a person has the means to buy quality, then he should be given quality options. But that doesn't mean every one needs a $2000 rifle to have fun with. People need to ask the right questions. Or at least word their questions so they have half a chance to get the correct answer.