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How do you guys determine hold for shots with large barrel elevation angle?

This question has come up a couple of times for me as I watch the hunting videos of all the big guys shooting birds off barn roofs at 50+ yards. Are you using something like Strelok to get hold under? Are you using the old "Rifleman's Rule"?

The reason I ask is that as an old retired academic I decided to solve the problem myself by writing a simple pellet ballistics program. It really isn't that difficult if you limit yourself to subsonic speeds, no wind, no spin drift, and have access to the G1 drag profiles. Anyway, what I noticed is that I was getting different results from Strelok on elevated shots. My results closely match his on low angle shots (accounting for barrel angle to zero at a specified range). But as the barrel elevation increased my results differed from his. So it has to be my error, right. That's what I thought. Then I started looking closely at the tabular results from Strelok. I noticed that the pellet velocity didn't change at a given range no matter how large an elevation angle was used. That is flat out incorrect! As you elevated the barrel gravity has a comport of force that acts in the same direction as drag and will slow the pellet down (just a bit, but it gets larger the higher the target is).

So it may be that he is correcting for this somewhere in his calculations that I cannot see and that his hold results are good. So that is why I am asking if anyone uses his holds with success. I don't have a location where I can put a target up high and shoot it to check my results. Hmm, I need to find a flagpole somewhere that will allow rifles to be shot at it ... not likely.
Cheers,
Greg
 
at normal ranges under about 60 with a gun ideally zeroed at 20 or so, i havent found it to be much of an issue, like shooting at the top of a tall tree. just have to remember 'not' to hold over at or past 50 like i would normally ... close in, like your right under the tree, itl still hit low as normal and require hold over ... id say the main problem will be really long shots, that could get dicey, especially if you have a range set up thats a pretty steep down grade, guessing ... no doubt that chairgun or the app in the atns would put them right on spot though, not sure whats going on with yours ..
 
I noticed that the pellet velocity didn't change at a given range no matter how large an elevation angle was used. That is flat out incorrect!
I don't shoot at very high angles at long distances so I never noticed it. I checked on Strelok app now and see what you mean, the speed stays the same at 100 meter and 45deg up.
I also checked the same on Element ballistics app and there it reduce the speed by 6fps at the angle which is well within speed differences from one shot to the other.
While theoretical it differs, I don't think in practice you will notice a difference.
You can download the Element app for free to check.
 
Thanks Klaas,
I downloaded the Element Ballistics Program, and it is giving very similar numbers to mine for 0 elevation also. When you put in an elevation in the velocities in the Element program were slower than mine. Then I realized that the ranges I was basing things on is the horizontal range, not the actual range (hypotenuse). It appears that the Element Program uses the range you get in your rangefinder (the hypotenuse), because when I entered my table with the horizontal range for the given range and slope the velocities were the same. That is probably a better way of doing it (those guys are way smarter than me about this), so I will change mine. But it does appear that Strelok computes velocity incorrectly. Though he must adjust for that somewhere later as his hold under is nearly the same as from the Element Program at 30 degrees of elevation
Cheers
Greg.
 
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