Tuning High shot count from high output condor valve

[MrP]

So I've discovered something interesting which maybe everyone already knows about. I wrote about this once before but it continues to amaze me. On my .25 Air Force gun with a Doug noble valve I have a high pressure (4500 psi) aluminum tank. It is a little lower volume than a standard tank of course due to thicker walls. If I fill to 4000 psi and a low hammer pre-load, it is valve locked and shoots the typical slugs that I shoot with it way too slowly. Obviously this valve is meant to be used with a heavy spring set at high preload at this pressure (and if I do that I easily get 127 fpe out of it). 

But if I load lighter pellets like 24 and 25 grain and keep the hammer low (2-4 on the wheel) it gets super efficient And I can shoot what seems like a huge number of exact kings at about 40 - 50 fpe from 4000 down to 3000 psi. It's kind of funny because this ridiculously over powered gun is actually my favorite and most efficient low power shooter when valve locked. Maybe it's super efficient and with the valve slamming shut so quickly... it is releasing the minimum amount of air needed to launch it at a reasonable speed. Speculating. It's sweet though - fun to shoot like this. And just a twist and I'm back in the 80-120 range. Very adaptable airgun!

I don't really have a wide enough range of experience though to know what is typical. I guess I need to get quantitative. This airgun obviously has a low shot count at 127 fpe. So of course compared to that it seems like a miracle. My only other high powered air gun was a Talon P and it comes with a mini bottle so again I have no perspective on what it feels like to shoot a "typical" bottle gun. Seems like a nearly miraculous number of 50 FPE shots it's just par for the course for a 50 FPE gun with a big bottle.

 

[JohnnyPDX]

That's super cool having multiple power options in one gun and in a different way than is in the brochure.

You've made a backyard friendly, plinking, target and serious hunting rifle in ONE PCP. Great work Sir!

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Are you stating that 40 fpe is low power? The valve theory operation would be correct if that is indeed what is happening.



Assuming it is a larger valve it will be harder to open.... so theoretically, you could potentially get lower power out of it than a standard valve with low HST

 

[MrP]

At the low end maybe 30 FPE but I dial it a little higher to 40 or so. At the high end 130 fpe so it's just relatively low power. My feeling is that this is the most efficient configuration that I have. A super high output valve being barely knocked open. Some people get 200 FPE out of this valve with a loxnger barrel. So this gun is over powered and really meant for longer distance shooting but I'm stuck indoors so I found this fantastic way to take advantage of the very open structure of the valve. a brief tap is enough to send a 25 grain diablo at 850 FPS and seems to use barely any air. 

I get maybe 40 (need to count) shots or so shooting from 4000 down to 3000 psi. So most the time I just shoot in that range in my garage. And when I put it away it's still at 3000 psi which is actually the optimum to get power out of that valve. When I'm done shooting it still has probably six shots at 125 FPE in it left for me if I want to use them, or a bunch at 75-80 or so fpe (pretty much the minimum once the valve is easier to knock back - I know this because 24 grain is always supersonic and annoyingly loud to shoot even when set to 1 on power wheel)

I love this gun. Last night I was able to punch a hole in a tin can and shoot every pellet I have through that same hole. 60 grain slugs 25 grain pellets and everything in between... only a few scope clicks needed to rezero for higher weight. This is a big hole (2/5" maybe) so no big accomplishment at 11 m (lol) for those of you who are marksmen but to me it seems pretty astounding that I can do that. Let's just say I haven't focused on accuracy as much as I should have in the past 

In a nutshell if anyone is looking for a really sweet high powered single shot carbine, Talon P frame with a Doug noble valve 18 inch barrel and 4500 psi tank is the most adaptable thing that I can imagine. I guess that's just an "escape" with a custom valve and a new tank. I really can't imagine anything better for my purposes anyway. I have a really nice 3-D print file to make a reflex LDC for this if anyone is interested. It'll require you to buy some kind of aluminum tube as a host for it though. Nice and quiet(ish) even up at 127FPE. Its noise is like a magnum springer overall with a bit of a "pang" due to the tank

I have posted about this gun a few times now my apologies for those of you are tired of hearing my story. I'm kind of a one trick pony. 

Johnnypdx - Honestly your enthusiasm inspired me I probably never would've gotten into this if I hadn't been motivated by your example.

 

[JohnnyPDX]

Cool Mr. P. Your enthusiasm and creativity have inspired me as well. Getting through Covid and having a 'blast'.

 

[MarkP]

MrP: I have a Condor SS in .25 I would like to upgrade.

What did you change, where did you buy, etc?

Mark P

 

[MrP]

That must be nice to have the built-in sound suppressor. Well in your case the only thing you would need would be to order a valve from Doug Noble. As far as I know he is still making these. I think he is a member here maybe. I ordered also a thick walled aluminum bottle from eBay based on someone's suggestions here. That can supposedly be pumped up to 4500 psi but I just stay around 3900-4000 to be safe.

The valve comes with a very heavy spring that makes the action a bit stiff especially with an aluminum breech slide (my choice - Doug suggested stock delrin is better choice because metal on metal is rough). 


I'm not sure why I'm not using the delrin breech slide... I guess i worry the plastic might fail? Aluminum works ok, just a little stiff. 


I don't know how long the barrel is in the condor SS but it's longer than 18 inches you would probably get ridiculous power. The valves are not cheap but well worth the price to me.