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"HIGH" quality aftermarket barrels in their pcp's?

seems weird to me that "they" allow fully customized guns , custom barrels and all, But limit it to run of the mill projectiles .

It would be cool to see the outcome of using custom ammo at those big EBR-ish type of events! My suspicion is they think there might be someone that might dominate certain events.

Those that put on these events should create a separate class/s so we all can see what happens because it'd be interesting to see how it turns out.

I was privileged to shoot such a gun and slug combo that was fully up to the task of doing that. It made even me seem like I knew what I was doing.
 
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It would be cool to see the outcome of using custom ammo at those big EBR-ish type of events! My suspicion is they think there might be someone that might dominate certain events.

Those that put on these events should create a separate class/s so we all can see what happens because it'd be interesting to see how it turns out.

I was privileged to shoot such a gun and slug combo that was fully up to the task of doing that. It made even me seem like I knew what I was doing.
It is actually a ridiculous rule. When you here people saying they have kept a stash of pellets that are now no longer available because of small changes to the production process….
How is that any different?
You can weight size it ect.
Imagine if they just had a few mass produced options available for competitors on the day of competition 🫣
 
It is actually a ridiculous rule. When you here people saying they have kept a stash of pellets that are now no longer available because of small changes to the production process….
How is that any different?
You can weight size it ect.
Imagine if they just had a few mass produced options available for competitors on the day of competition 🫣
Ha, that'd get some panties wadded up.

Getting bad batches of pellets discouraged me. I got to thinking that I'd need to make an order every time a shipment arrived at the retailers until I found a good batch which is more than I want to deal with.
 
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Ha, that'd get some panties wadded up.

Getting bad batches of pellets discouraged me. I got to thinking that I'd need to make an order every time a shipment arrived at the retailers until I found a good batch which is more than I want to deal with.

Sure. Now, who do you recommend?
Lol.....Me.
 
I’d order a Krieger, Bartlein, Krux etc, but I don’t think they make the proper twist rate in 22 (1-17.7?)
Daystate Safari

I know Bartlein can produce gain twists, left twist rifling, different groove and land configurations, and pretty much any option you could want in a barrel because of the modern machines they use. IIRC they wouldn't do .177 for me years ago but 22 cal I'm certain they'd do. It'll be a long wait, probably close to 1 year, and expensive.

Don't feel like you have to be locked into 17.7. I'm sure anywhere close to that would be fine and if you plan on the heaviest 22 cal projectiles you could go faster. For example a typical twist rate for 22rf 40 grainers is a 16 twist and some people in the PRS world have had good success at longer distances wit 1-14 or faster.
 
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I know Bartlein can produce gain twists, left twist rifling, different groove and land configurations, and pretty much any option you could want in a barrel because of the modern machines they use. IIRC they wouldn't do .177 for me years ago but 22 cal I'm certain they'd do. It'll be a long wait, probably close to 1 year, and expensive.

Don't feel like you have to be locked into 17.7. I'm sure anywhere close to that would be fine and if you plan on the heaviest 22 cal projectiles you could go faster. For example a typical twist rate for 22rf 40 grainers is a 16 twist and some people in the PRS world have had good success at longer distances wit 1-14 or faster.
If you are going to shoot 40gr or bigger, and in a hot rod pushing 100 fpe and well into the transonic range, my experience with PB 22lr says 1-14 is an improvement over 1-16. I would have gone to 1-12 if I could have found a quality blank at a price I was willing to pay just for the heck of it. 1-9 twist in a minimum 22 inch barrel is gaining some traction in the long range 22 world.

I have two 22lr rebarelled with 1-14 twist, I don't shoot any competition, just playing around. Only reason I tried it is I shoot only subsonic in 22lr, and some of it in 45 grain and found a large discount on a douglas xx air guaged match barrel blank in 1-14 twist and at the price decided it couldn't hurt. That one blank made two barrels, one on my savage bolt gun at 16.25 inches, and one dedicated 22 upper at 11 inches. Pulling bullets and measuring them, running them in twist rate calcs for the high transonic speeds they ran it seemed like 1-16 was marginal at best and nothing was shooting well enough for me, so at the price I decided what the heck. I tried everything out there short of expensive match ammo when I ran out of my supply of CCI standard velocity purchased in the late 80's that was always good for 1/3 inch groups at 50, the new CCI, and I've tried several different lot numbers, can't hold a candle to the old CCI standard velocity, 10 times the fliers and they are much worse fliers than the old stuff, and twice the group size discounting fliers on the new stuff. Took me nearly 30 years to go through the 40K I bought back then. Out of around 8 different subsonic loads, all but one showed improvement with 1-14. The one that didn't was american eagle subsonic did not get any better, but that ammo is pure sh)t, don't think it is possible for it to shoot even remotely ok out of anything, at least the lot number I have. Improvements in the 40 gr bullets were all mostly fliers were less pronounced. Typical 1-16 twist ten shot groups may have had 2 fliers opening up group at 50 yards up to 1/2 inch or close to it beyond the other 8 in the group, same ammo with 1-14 still had clear fliers, but they were less than 1/4 inch after and maybe the others in the group were barely tighter. The 45 gr subsonics were all significantly better, sucks that the best one was a winchester round made in Australia. It improved from 9/10 at 50 yards to just over 3/10 at 50 yards. Reason that sucks is they either stopped importing those or discontinued them, don't know which. If I knew when I bought 2 bricks of them at a big discount before covid/election mess, they would no longer be available, I would have bought cases of them.

The barrel blank only cost me 125, it was like 70% off on old stock from a custom maker of beautiful single shots, had the machine work done at paladin machine for just a hair more than the blank cost, given the price it really seemed a no brainer to try it and Paladin is barely over an hour drive from me. Paladin machine service did all the barrel work for the SOCOM calibers developed for AR's by teppo jutsu and Tony Rumore of Tromix. If you are into AR's at all and don't recognize those two there is something wrong with you.
 
Thanks @steve123. If I knew for certain I could find someone to cut and chamber professionally for a Daystate Safari, I’d risk the investment. With 3 Daystates; Regal, Amir Wolf and Safari, I have no interest in further air rifle purchases. But I’d certainly invest in a Bartlein barreled Safari.
Are they digesting pellets, slugs, or both? What brand and weight are the projectiles?

I'll give you a run down on my process. First off, I have made a lathe fixture that I made. It allows me to adjust the bore position, not only concentrically but longitudinally. I do this on 2 planes of reference, 90 degrees from one another. What this gives us is a bore that is absolutely on center and perpendicular.
when I say on center, I mean that no matter where the concentricity is checked, it reads on center along the length of the bore rod. I do this for the chamber end and the muzzle end. Please note that this is for air guns only. The "chamber" Is obviously a throat and lead. The throat is long enough to accommodate the chosen ammo, where it allows the head to just engage the rifling. I have found that air guns don't care much for jump. The angle that I use, I keep that secret. If you are going to shoot both slugs and pellets, I cut a pellet throat and lead. It will require just a touch more force to go to battery, but performance is better than having jump. That said, I have had good improvements with tolerating jump by cutting the throat diameter to a much closer tolerance to the head diameter. This makes the barrel more unforgiving to projectile diameter deviation. If the projectile is a bit large, you'll likely be sizing it as you go to battery. More force and more wear on the platform. .22cal and .25cal are reamer cut for dual purpose barrels otherwise, I use boring bar. Above that is boring bar cut. Both get polished in both directions of rotation to rid both edges of the rifling of burrs. I keep my Lathe fixture/chuck guarded but I will tell you that it is a smaller scale version of what F-class barrel makers use. My biggest short coming, as I see it, is that I don't have a bore scope yet. Why not? lol because I'm a one man show, poor bass turd. I'm trying to develop a shop and enjoy air guns. This fills dead spindle time and all I want is to quit punching a clock for another man's benefit. So, I bootstrap one piece at a time. Most of my work is die and ergonomic tooling. Also help out inventor types, but that just about turns out to be pro bono lol. Got a soft spot for them, I guess. It seems that air gun stuff can be lucrative, but the volume just isn't there. although it is getting more popular.

Thats all I got to say bout that.
 
Best I’ve tried in Safari are FX/JSB 25.4 RD. Only tried a single batch of slugs.

What the hell, I’ll give Bartlein a call. I’ll also need to take some serious stock measurements to ensure the barrel profile fits.

(BTW, I have a G3 Vudoo 22 that shoots 40 gr. Lapua Center X in the .2s at 50 and under 1MOA at 100; I just can’t shoot it in my backyard!)
 
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If you are going to shoot 40gr or bigger, and in a hot rod pushing 100 fpe and well into the transonic range, my experience with PB 22lr says 1-14 is an improvement over 1-16. I would have gone to 1-12 if I could have found a quality blank at a price I was willing to pay just for the heck of it. 1-9 twist in a minimum 22 inch barrel is gaining some traction in the long range 22 world.

I have two 22lr rebarelled with 1-14 twist, I don't shoot any competition, just playing around. Only reason I tried it is I shoot only subsonic in 22lr, and some of it in 45 grain and found a large discount on a douglas xx air guaged match barrel blank in 1-14 twist and at the price decided it couldn't hurt. That one blank made two barrels, one on my savage bolt gun at 16.25 inches, and one dedicated 22 upper at 11 inches. Pulling bullets and measuring them, running them in twist rate calcs for the high transonic speeds they ran it seemed like 1-16 was marginal at best and nothing was shooting well enough for me, so at the price I decided what the heck. I tried everything out there short of expensive match ammo when I ran out of my supply of CCI standard velocity purchased in the late 80's that was always good for 1/3 inch groups at 50, the new CCI, and I've tried several different lot numbers, can't hold a candle to the old CCI standard velocity, 10 times the fliers and they are much worse fliers than the old stuff, and twice the group size discounting fliers on the new stuff. Took me nearly 30 years to go through the 40K I bought back then. Out of around 8 different subsonic loads, all but one showed improvement with 1-14. The one that didn't was american eagle subsonic did not get any better, but that ammo is pure sh)t, don't think it is possible for it to shoot even remotely ok out of anything, at least the lot number I have. Improvements in the 40 gr bullets were all mostly fliers were less pronounced. Typical 1-16 twist ten shot groups may have had 2 fliers opening up group at 50 yards up to 1/2 inch or close to it beyond the other 8 in the group, same ammo with 1-14 still had clear fliers, but they were less than 1/4 inch after and maybe the others in the group were barely tighter. The 45 gr subsonics were all significantly better, sucks that the best one was a winchester round made in Australia. It improved from 9/10 at 50 yards to just over 3/10 at 50 yards. Reason that sucks is they either stopped importing those or discontinued them, don't know which. If I knew when I bought 2 bricks of them at a big discount before covid/election mess, they would no longer be available, I would have bought cases of them.

The barrel blank only cost me 125, it was like 70% off on old stock from a custom maker of beautiful single shots, had the machine work done at paladin machine for just a hair more than the blank cost, given the price it really seemed a no brainer to try it and Paladin is barely over an hour drive from me. Paladin machine service did all the barrel work for the SOCOM calibers developed for AR's by teppo jutsu and Tony Rumore of Tromix. If you are into AR's at all and don't recognize those two there is something wrong with you.

Great testimonials and info!

Thanks Karl.
 
Are they digesting pellets, slugs, or both? What brand and weight are the projectiles?

I'll give you a run down on my process. First off, I have made a lathe fixture that I made. It allows me to adjust the bore position, not only concentrically but longitudinally. I do this on 2 planes of reference, 90 degrees from one another. What this gives us is a bore that is absolutely on center and perpendicular.
when I say on center, I mean that no matter where the concentricity is checked, it reads on center along the length of the bore rod. I do this for the chamber end and the muzzle end. Please note that this is for air guns only. The "chamber" Is obviously a throat and lead. The throat is long enough to accommodate the chosen ammo, where it allows the head to just engage the rifling. I have found that air guns don't care much for jump. The angle that I use, I keep that secret. If you are going to shoot both slugs and pellets, I cut a pellet throat and lead. It will require just a touch more force to go to battery, but performance is better than having jump. That said, I have had good improvements with tolerating jump by cutting the throat diameter to a much closer tolerance to the head diameter. This makes the barrel more unforgiving to projectile diameter deviation. If the projectile is a bit large, you'll likely be sizing it as you go to battery. More force and more wear on the platform. .22cal and .25cal are reamer cut for dual purpose barrels otherwise, I use boring bar. Above that is boring bar cut. Both get polished in both directions of rotation to rid both edges of the rifling of burrs. I keep my Lathe fixture/chuck guarded but I will tell you that it is a smaller scale version of what F-class barrel makers use. My biggest short coming, as I see it, is that I don't have a bore scope yet. Why not? lol because I'm a one man show, poor bass turd. I'm trying to develop a shop and enjoy air guns. This fills dead spindle time and all I want is to quit punching a clock for another man's benefit. So, I bootstrap one piece at a time. Most of my work is die and ergonomic tooling. Also help out inventor types, but that just about turns out to be pro bono lol. Got a soft spot for them, I guess. It seems that air gun stuff can be lucrative, but the volume just isn't there. although it is getting more popular.

Thats all I got to say bout that.

Most of the Smiths around here are tuners which also do some minor barrel prep like enlarging ports, polishing, and things like that which is appreciated BTW!

But you offer the kind of higher machining skills and expertise for barrels that we need which is above the middle of the road mods in the airgun world. That's awesome Bill, I'm glad you're here for us!
 
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Are they digesting pellets, slugs, or both? What brand and weight are the projectiles?

I'll give you a run down on my process. First off, I have made a lathe fixture that I made. It allows me to adjust the bore position, not only concentrically but longitudinally. I do this on 2 planes of reference, 90 degrees from one another. What this gives us is a bore that is absolutely on center and perpendicular.
when I say on center, I mean that no matter where the concentricity is checked, it reads on center along the length of the bore rod. I do this for the chamber end and the muzzle end. Please note that this is for air guns only. The "chamber" Is obviously a throat and lead. The throat is long enough to accommodate the chosen ammo, where it allows the head to just engage the rifling. I have found that air guns don't care much for jump. The angle that I use, I keep that secret. If you are going to shoot both slugs and pellets, I cut a pellet throat and lead. It will require just a touch more force to go to battery, but performance is better than having jump. That said, I have had good improvements with tolerating jump by cutting the throat diameter to a much closer tolerance to the head diameter. This makes the barrel more unforgiving to projectile diameter deviation. If the projectile is a bit large, you'll likely be sizing it as you go to battery. More force and more wear on the platform. .22cal and .25cal are reamer cut for dual purpose barrels otherwise, I use boring bar. Above that is boring bar cut. Both get polished in both directions of rotation to rid both edges of the rifling of burrs. I keep my Lathe fixture/chuck guarded but I will tell you that it is a smaller scale version of what F-class barrel makers use. My biggest short coming, as I see it, is that I don't have a bore scope yet. Why not? lol because I'm a one man show, poor bass turd. I'm trying to develop a shop and enjoy air guns. This fills dead spindle time and all I want is to quit punching a clock for another man's benefit. So, I bootstrap one piece at a time. Most of my work is die and ergonomic tooling. Also help out inventor types, but that just about turns out to be pro bono lol. Got a soft spot for them, I guess. It seems that air gun stuff can be lucrative, but the volume just isn't there. although it is getting more popular.

Thats all I got to say bout that.
If you can machine a .22lr (.224) Bartlein/Benchmark/Kriger barrel, and ship it to Europe, I'm all in. I have an RTI Prophet and it would be amazing to see what happens with a bridged TP, and a .22 20mm OD, 22 inch 1:12 barrel
 
Best I’ve tried in Safari are FX/JSB 25.4 RD. Only tried a single batch of slugs.

What the hell, I’ll give Bartlein a call. I’ll also need to take some serious stock measurements to ensure the barrel profile fits.

(BTW, I have a G3 Vudoo 22 that shoots 40 gr. Lapua Center X in the .2s at 50 and under 1MOA at 100; I just can’t shoot it in my backyard!)

For some of the winners at EBR and RMAC the trend for the last few years are slower twists for pellets, like 30 or 40. Some of these barrels typically shoot the lighter slugs ok but at some point in weight and length the precision begins to fail.

Then many of the guys that are dedicated to shooting slugs are leaning towards faster twists to shoot the longer and higher BC slugs.

Here's my match 22rf which is a Anschutz 1827F biathlon. It averaged .26" in the Jbells 50Y 6x5 when I first got the gun a decade ago. It has occasional POI shifts though which I haven't been able to figure out totally yet, despite bedding, having a steel pic mount made, etc.

And I'd still like to get a Vudoo at some point!
DSC00171.JPG
 
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