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HFT Ranging tips?

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CurtisNelson

CurtisNelson

Member
Oct 20, 2020
56
46
Tulsa, Oklahoma
I don’t have any, you?

I’m shooting hunter field target and I’m having difficulty ranging my targets so I have a few questions:

First my basic info.
I have an oversized wheel on my parallax knob.
I’ve set out targets at all the yardages from 10-20 and every 3-5 yards out to 55.
Some are regular targets, some are “eye test” targets with stripes/numbers/letters.
I try to get good light on them to help with the clarity.
I adjust the focus from the same direction (near to far) every time to get the same “edge” of the depth of field for my focus point.

When I go back later and verify them, I often find they need adjusting (not the 10-20 ones)

I just shot a match that includes target yardages in the match report ( I noted my range estimates during the match) and I did poorly ranging
past 30-35 yds: ranged a 55 yd target as 40, a 45 as 40, a 55 as 45, a 50 as 42, a 41 as 34, a 45 as 35 all on the short side.

Closer was better exc. for a 17 ranged as a 13, a 15 as 17.

I have 30 yds in my back yard.

Once you have your parallax wheel yardages marked, do you ever recheck them and need to change them?
How often do you check your range markings?
How often do you practice ranging? Ever? I felt like if I have the wheel marked right, it should stay right. Right?
Should I be making adjustments to my range estimates when the light is not bright?

I’m 60 and had Radial Keratotomy on my eyes 30+ years ago and now my vision changes as the day goes on.
Anyone else have these eye issues?
What is working for you?

I would appreciate any tips/ techniques to get consistent.

Curtis
 
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What scope are we talking here? Some are known to be temp sensitive, ranging differently as temps change. I've heard of guys having two sets of marks, one for "hot" and one for "cold" on these temp sensitive models.


Id tend to blame the scope first but everybody's eyes are different so it could be what you cite as your vision changing throughout the day. You mention getting more accurate ranging results on closer distances, that's generally true across the board, all scopes. But perhaps your particular scope simply isn't capable of ranging by focus on greater distances. And I don't mean that to insult your equipment. It's a simple and harsh truth that some scopes just don't work well for our weird use of determining distances through focus.

I've had the epithelial "on" version of corneal crosslinking performed on each eye, the more aggressive epi "off" version on each eye (after the "on" version didn't stop disease progression) and photorefractive keratectomy performed on the left eye at the same time as the second crosslinking. I shot field target before, between, and now after all of that. I had to redo the marks on my main rigs sidewheel after the last eye surgery. BUT barring anything that drastically changes your vision like that, good trustable marks on a scope wheel should remain good trustable marks on a scope wheel, from outing to outing and match to match.

With my specific ophthalmic conditions, staying hydrated helps. Sounds crazy but I can notice tiny changes in my vision with hydration levels.
 
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HFT guns are pretty flat shooting so biggest thing to worry about is that 10-15yrd range and like 45-55. 10-15yds on small KZs require the most accurate ranging and luckily are the easiest to setup a sidewheel for. Go every 1/2 yard if possible.

20- 40yds is relatively flat and straightforward so you only have to have a rough idea of holdover. These ranges are also usually pretty easy to setup on a sidewheel.

From 40-55yds, play the odds. Once again, .177 HFT guns are fairly flat shooting so the margin of error is on your side. If you aren't sure if something is 50 or 55 yards. Hold for 50 towards the top of the KZ. Even if you're wrong and it's 55, you'll still knock the target down. Basically error on the side of a hit. These ranges can be more difficult to setup on a sidewheel as they tend to sit very close together.

Take your time when setting your wheel up and practice ranging a lot. Try to range by only dialing one way. For example, start at the low side and adjust the wheel further out until the image is the most crisp and then turn the dial back to a lower range and repeat to verify your first reading.
 
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Hey Curtis,
Here's a fun little nugget for you. I set half of the targets at the match you are talking about. I confirm my scope wheel about once a month, and did it about 10 days ago.

On Saturday, I mis-ranged every target past 40 yards and closer than 15 yards. In my case, it was 100% temperature shift in the scope. I've never experienced this much shift on this particular scope, but I think in the past I have set the yardages when it starts getting cold and then re-marked them when it warms back up. Not on purpose, just coincidentally. When I checked my yardages 10 days ago, it was in the mid 70s. Saturday it was below 40. I didn't catch this issue at the sight in range because I took the gun out of the warm car, went to the range, shot 5 shots and called it good. The scope didn't have enough time to get cold and show me what was going on.

I honestly thought I was having velocity issues during the shoot but I wasn't. I looked up the yardages when I got home and I was way off. Next time it gets that cold, I'll be setting up a "cold" wheel for the scope and figuring out what temperature causes the shift.
 
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CurtisNelson said:
I don’t have any, you?

I’m shooting hunter field target and I’m having difficulty ranging my targets so I have a few questions:

First my basic info.
I have an oversized wheel on my parallax knob.
I’ve set out targets at all the yardages from 10-20 and every 3-5 yards out to 55.
Some are regular targets, some are “eye test” targets with stripes/numbers/letters.
I try to get good light on them to help with the clarity.
I adjust the focus from the same direction (near to far) every time to get the same “edge” of the depth of field for my focus point.

When I go back later and verify them, I often find they need adjusting (not the 10-20 ones)

I just shot a match that includes target yardages in the match report ( I noted my range estimates during the match) and I did poorly ranging
past 30-35 yds: ranged a 55 yd target as 40, a 45 as 40, a 55 as 45, a 50 as 42, a 41 as 34, a 45 as 35 all on the short side.

Closer was better exc. for a 17 ranged as a 13, a 15 as 17.

I have 30 yds in my back yard.

Once you have your parallax wheel yardages marked, do you ever recheck them and need to change them?
How often do you check your range markings?
How often do you practice ranging? Ever? I felt like if I have the wheel marked right, it should stay right. Right?
Should I be making adjustments to my range estimates when the light is not bright?

I’m 60 and had Radial Keratotomy on my eyes 30+ years ago and now my vision changes as the day goes on.
Anyone else have these eye issues?
What is working for you?

I would appreciate any tips/ techniques to get consistent.

Curtis
Click to expand...
Curtis,
I too had similar issues… temperature, temperature…I purchased a smart pin from Maestro Designs, and recorded parallax at typical match temps. (SW Florida)..Huge difference at temperature extremes.
Besides the smart pin, I use a rubber scope enhancer, which allows my old eyes to adjust to only the light coming in from the objective lens, and a towel to cover my scope/ rifle when idle….has helped Tremendously. Good luck John
 
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CurtisNelson said:
I don’t have any, you?

I’m shooting hunter field target and I’m having difficulty ranging my targets so I have a few questions:

First my basic info.
I have an oversized wheel on my parallax knob.
I’ve set out targets at all the yardages from 10-20 and every 3-5 yards out to 55.
Some are regular targets, some are “eye test” targets with stripes/numbers/letters.
I try to get good light on them to help with the clarity.
I adjust the focus from the same direction (near to far) every time to get the same “edge” of the depth of field for my focus point.

When I go back later and verify them, I often find they need adjusting (not the 10-20 ones)

I just shot a match that includes target yardages in the match report ( I noted my range estimates during the match) and I did poorly ranging
past 30-35 yds: ranged a 55 yd target as 40, a 45 as 40, a 55 as 45, a 50 as 42, a 41 as 34, a 45 as 35 all on the short side.

Closer was better exc. for a 17 ranged as a 13, a 15 as 17.

I have 30 yds in my back yard.

Once you have your parallax wheel yardages marked, do you ever recheck them and need to change them?
How often do you check your range markings?
How often do you practice ranging? Ever? I felt like if I have the wheel marked right, it should stay right. Right?
Should I be making adjustments to my range estimates when the light is not bright?

I’m 60 and had Radial Keratotomy on my eyes 30+ years ago and now my vision changes as the day goes on.
Anyone else have these eye issues?
What is working for you?

I would appreciate any tips/ techniques to get consistent.

Curtis
Click to expand...
I left out my scope..Sightron Siii Fieldtarget…black. Also, I have gone to marking my sidewheel with the corresponding reticle point, instead of the ranges. Example: my zero is 27.5 yds, my wheel reads 0, 10 yards, my wheel reads 8, and so on. This way I don’t need a range card to try to read after ranging…I look thru the little magnifying glass on the Smart Pin and use that hold number…not for everyone, but works for me. Good luck John
 
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educate yourself on trajectory profiles, Ranging errors as one moves IN from Zero range as well OUT from zero range.
In the above situations center of KZ aiming may NOT be ideal.

IF IT WERE EASY, most would score better, due to it being a deeper process in scoring well, many don't ;)
 
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Franklink said:
What scope are we talking here? Some are known to be temp sensitive, ranging differently as temps change. I've heard of guys having two sets of marks, one for "hot" and one for "cold" on these temp sensitive models.

Id tend to blame the scope first but everybody's eyes are different so it could be what you cite as your vision changing throughout the day. You mention getting more accurate ranging results on closer distances, that's generally true across the board, all scopes. But perhaps your particular scope simply isn't capable of ranging by focus on greater distances. And I don't mean that to insult your equipment. It's a simple and harsh truth that some scopes just don't work well for our weird use of determining distances through focus.

I've had the epithelial "on" version of corneal crosslinking performed on each eye, the more aggressive epi "off" version on each eye (after the "on" version didn't stop disease progression) and photorefractive keratectomy performed on the left eye at the same time as the second crosslinking. I shot field target before, between, and now after all of that. I had to redo the marks on my main rigs sidewheel after the last eye surgery. BUT barring anything that drastically changes your vision like that, good trustable marks on a scope wheel should remain good trustable marks on a scope wheel, from outing to outing and match to match.

With my specific ophthalmic conditions, staying hydrated helps. Sounds crazy but I can notice tiny changes in my vision with hydration levels.
Click to expand...
Current scope is the Element Titan 3-18 FFP. 0-55 rotation is about 270 deg, I like the .2 Mil hash marks. Last year I used a Hawke Sidewinder 30 8-32 SFP. 0-55 is only about 100 Deg. It is on my XFT rifle now. 1st year the Element Helix 6-24 SFP 24X .5 Mil Reticle, liked it alot but found I needed Ilum. Reticle for dark targets. My buddy has a Sightron SIII that is temp sensitive, shot with a gentleman last week that said his SIII is not temp sensitive.

We went to LA some years ago for my wifes' Crosslinking from her RK. She can't get enough correction in glasses so she is legally blind without her special domed contacts. I bet it was the same DR. B-W.
 
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Sqwirlfugger57 said:
HFT guns are pretty flat shooting so biggest thing to worry about is that 10-15yrd range and like 45-55. 10-15yds on small KZs require the most accurate ranging and luckily are the easiest to setup a sidewheel for. Go every 1/2 yard if possible.

20- 40yds is relatively flat and straightforward so you only have to have a rough idea of holdover. These ranges are also usually pretty easy to setup on a sidewheel.

From 40-55yds, play the odds. Once again, .177 HFT guns are fairly flat shooting so the margin of error is on your side. If you aren't sure if something is 50 or 55 yards. Hold for 50 towards the top of the KZ. Even if you're wrong and it's 55, you'll still knock the target down. Basically error on the side of a hit. These ranges can be more difficult to setup on a sidewheel as they tend to sit very close together.

Take your time when setting your wheel up and practice ranging a lot. Try to range by only dialing one way. For example, start at the low side and adjust the wheel further out until the image is the most crisp and then turn the dial back to a lower range and repeat to verify your first reading.
Click to expand...
Thanks, This makes sense. My Zeros are 20 and 38 Yds with a .2Mil apex from 25-31. (20 yds is the dist. from my patio table to my fence.) :)
 
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scotton said:
Hey Curtis,
Here's a fun little nugget for you. I set half of the targets at the match you are talking about. I confirm my scope wheel about once a month, and did it about 10 days ago.

On Saturday, I mis-ranged every target past 40 yards and closer than 15 yards. In my case, it was 100% temperature shift in the scope. I've never experienced this much shift on this particular scope, but I think in the past I have set the yardages when it starts getting cold and then re-marked them when it warms back up. Not on purpose, just coincidentally. When I checked my yardages 10 days ago, it was in the mid 70s. Saturday it was below 40. I didn't catch this issue at the sight in range because I took the gun out of the warm car, went to the range, shot 5 shots and called it good. The scope didn't have enough time to get cold and show me what was going on.

I honestly thought I was having velocity issues during the shoot but I wasn't. I looked up the yardages when I got home and I was way off. Next time it gets that cold, I'll be setting up a "cold" wheel for the scope and figuring out what temperature causes the shift.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Scott. Looks like I need to consider this also. I'll see if my existing marks are good at warmer temps.
 
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CJSimmons said:
The best tip that I have yet to work out is bracketing if you have a scope with a mil/moa type reticle. If where you compete uses cinder block to hold the targets, you can typically bracket off the brick. If not, for the 45+ you can bracket off the kill zone.
Click to expand...
I'm working on this technique but those sneaky Texans like to hide or rotate the block so you can't see the edges. (Shakes fist)
 
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Motorhead said:
educate yourself on trajectory profiles, Ranging errors as one moves IN from Zero range as well OUT from zero range.
In the above situations center of KZ aiming may NOT be ideal.

IF IT WERE EASY, most would score better, due to it being a deeper process in scoring well, many don't ;)
Click to expand...
Thanks Motorhead, I appreciate your insight - The pellet is coming from below before the Zero, then drops from the top after. So the incoming pellet sees an oval, not a circle. (scratches chin)
 
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I calibrate my scope wheel using a 100 ft tape and an eye chart. I mark the wheel every yard from 10 to 18, then at ecery 5 yards from 20 to 55 yards. It worked our well. The eye chart makes it easy to focus.

Eye Chart.jpg
 
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Curt,
Not so much that as the angle of sight to flight is shallow.

*More in the OPTICS in What Direction ones scope starts getting soft on parrilax.
KEY understanding to grasp here is at ranges In front of and past Zero Range the pellet is rising to sight line or falling away from it.
ONLY AT ZERO RANGE can one conclude exactly where pellet will strike if aimed into center of KZ ... The Middle ;)


If one has a scope such a HAWKE Sidewinders / Airmaxs ( Not picking on Hawke, just a scope I've used ) ... I found that @ 13 y and less there lets say kinda spongy and not real snappy. Tho ABOVE @ 13 y they are crisp and precise out to the ZR.
* In this case lets say your target is ACTUALLY at @ 12 yards, yet using your scope not knowing this you are loosely bouncing your ranging 12-13 because it won't diffidently Snap in to focus crisply.

So we know there will be HOLD OVER required ( Held or Clicked ) and if you decided target was closer to 13 upper 12's and aim CENTER of the KZ you won't be over shooting ( High ) because your scope starts to get precise at 14+ so you know targets not 14.
KILL ZONE is a hole and lets say this 12 yarder is 1/2" .... If you shoot center of KZ you effectively ONLY HAVE a 1/4" of error in ranging under where aimed.
If you take the shot as a 13 to upper 12 you very well may miss by having a 6 o'clock miss or split.
WHY ... because your scopes parrilax error of being soft at these distances has screwed you ( We already spoke its not further away ) But what if it's closer :eek:
Yup the trick here is DO NOT AIM KZ CENTER but understand this target very well might be closer to 12 or perhaps a tad closer yet ... poope !!

Now see if the 12 y and 13 y correction BOTH FIT inside the KZ ? Typically yes they will which would have you original ranging now being shot in @ the top 1/4 to 1/3 or total hole size. Guess what ... you just bought yourself more kill zone hole below point of aim.
That 12 yard shot you ranged further falls down because you sneaked in near the bottom of KZ where if shot had been taken center of KZ could have been a miss.

Whew :unsure:

Now the same thing is happening Past Zero range tho inverse ...
You scope likely ranges well out to @ 40-45 y and starts getting spongy once again as you go further out ... Meaning your ranging errors will likely be target is further away than ranged and NOT closer.

You range a target @ 52 y, aim in middle of KZ .... WHAT IF TARGET WAS 55 y ? poope ! a 6 o'clock split again !!
Understand the pellet is falling away from sight line and ANY time the target is further away than you range it you shot is going to impact lower !!
So the same thought applies here too, You know target was not say 45-48 because your scope still is crisp in parrilax in/out focus ... But what if further ?
So ranged 52 .. huh, does 55 y fit too ? ( That being 55 towards the top of KZ and 52 near the bottom ) Doing this if you were wrong on ranging you have a greater chance to knock it down & if your 52 y was correct you still knock it down.

THAT'S IT
My reason for at times NOT taking shots in the Center of a KZ (y)

Now this a personal thing between shooter and his equipment & getting to know if or where these ranging error may exist and now having a tool to mitigate ones odds of missing shots otherwise doable. It takes time & practice if serious about your FT game or shooting in general.

THIS IS NOT something read and regurgitated in my own words ... This from actual Years of competitive shooting and figured out by practicing it when required.

Hope this helps some of you, certainly won't hurt correctly applied.

Scott S
 
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Motorhead said:
Curt,
Not so much that as the angle of sight to flight is shallow.

*More in the OPTICS in What Direction ones scope starts getting soft on parrilax.
KEY understanding to grasp here is at ranges In front of and past Zero Range the pellet is rising to sight line or falling away from it.
ONLY AT ZERO RANGE can one conclude exactly where pellet will strike if aimed into center of KZ ... The Middle ;)


If one has a scope such a HAWKE Sidewinders / Airmaxs ( Not picking on Hawke, just a scope I've used ) ... I found that @ 13 y and less there lets say kinda spongy and not real snappy. Tho ABOVE @ 13 y they are crisp and precise out to the ZR.
* In this case lets say your target is ACTUALLY at @ 12 yards, yet using your scope not knowing this you are loosely bouncing your ranging 12-13 because it won't diffidently Snap in to focus crisply.

So we know there will be HOLD OVER required ( Held or Clicked ) and if you decided target was closer to 13 upper 12's and aim CENTER of the KZ you won't be over shooting ( High ) because your scope starts to get precise at 14+ so you know targets not 14.
KILL ZONE is a hole and lets say this 12 yarder is 1/2" .... If you shoot center of KZ you effectively ONLY HAVE a 1/4" of error in ranging under where aimed.
If you take the shot as a 13 to upper 12 you very well may miss by having a 6 o'clock miss or split.
WHY ... because your scopes parrilax error of being soft at these distances has screwed you ( We already spoke its not further away ) But what if it's closer :eek:
Yup the trick here is DO NOT AIM KZ CENTER but understand this target very well might be closer to 12 or perhaps a tad closer yet ... poope !!

Now see if the 12 y and 13 y correction BOTH FIT inside the KZ ? Typically yes they will which would have you original ranging now being shot in @ the top 1/4 to 1/3 or total hole size. Guess what ... you just bought yourself more kill zone hole below point of aim.
That 12 yard shot you ranged further falls down because you sneaked in near the bottom of KZ where if shot had been taken center of KZ could have been a miss.

Whew :unsure:

Now the same thing is happening Past Zero range tho inverse ...
You scope likely ranges well out to @ 40-45 y and starts getting spongy once again as you go further out ... Meaning your ranging errors will likely be target is further away than ranged and NOT closer.

You range a target @ 52 y, aim in middle of KZ .... WHAT IF TARGET WAS 55 y ? poope ! a 6 o'clock split again !!
Understand the pellet is falling away from sight line and ANY time the target is further away than you range it you shot is going to impact lower !!
So the same thought applies here too, You know target was not say 45-48 because your scope still is crisp in parrilax in/out focus ... But what if further ?
So ranged 52 .. huh, does 55 y fit too ? ( That being 55 towards the top of KZ and 52 near the bottom ) Doing this if you were wrong on ranging you have a greater chance to knock it down & if your 52 y was correct you still knock it down.

THAT'S IT
My reason for at times NOT taking shots in the Center of a KZ (y)

Now this a personal thing between shooter and his equipment & getting to know if or where these ranging error may exist and now having a tool to mitigate ones odds of missing shots otherwise doable. It takes time & practice if serious about your FT game or shooting in general.

THIS IS NOT something read and regurgitated in my own words ... This from actual Years of competitive shooting and figured out by practicing it when required.

Hope this helps some of you, certainly won't hurt correctly applied.

Scott S
Click to expand...
Scott, you my friend are a champion! Thank you so much for sharing your hard earned wisdom. This opens up an entirely new aspect of FT for me that I never would have found on my own. I had to read it 3 times before it started to sink in, but It changes my whole approach to consider what I can do to mitigate ranging errors.
In debted,
Curtis
Dinner is on me next time we are at the same match!
This explains why I hit some of the targets I misranged. I was wondering how I did that.
 
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