HELP!! (Scope recommendation: FFP vs SFA, MOA v Mil & magnification)

[KevinWood44]

Hello guys, 

I am new to shooting and I'm getting the FX Maverick and I am looking for a scope that will be easy to use but also very capable and well made. I will most likely be target shooting, possibly some hunting at some point. I would certainly like the push the gun to the limits as far as range.

1. I have watched countless videos on FFP v SFP and I see the argument for both but is there a better option for what I will be doing?

2. MOA vs Mil - I am the US and we use yards and feet so would MOA be the better bet?

3. I can't see personally shooting the Maverick more than 150-175 yards so what magnification do you think I should choose??

4. Any particular scope recommendations based on what you think is best??

I was looking at the 6x24 Arken or the Element Helix ( I really don't want to go over $500 for a scope) 



Lastly, this has nothing to do with a scope but I planned on ordering the .22 caliber. Is that what you'd recommend? Seems fine for me (I can get more shots per fill) but .30 is nearly 2x the ft/lb - Thoughts on which I should pick up??



I can't thank you enough for your advice!! Much much appreciated!!!!

 

[cmatera]

1. Depends on the distances you shoot at the most. At low magnification, the reticle can get mighty small. If you usually shoot 40+ yards, you'll probably have the magnification turned up enough that it doesn't matter. I like SFP for short ranges, FFP for longer ranges.

2. Whichever you feel more comfortable with. Once you learn the reticle graduations/holdover/holdunder, either is just as good.

3. Depends on your eyes. I'm 66 y/o, four eye surgeries so far. To shoot 175 yds, I'd go 8-32, if you are young and have good eyes, 5-20 or 6-24 would probably be fine.

4. I have no experience with the Arken, but I like my Element Helix 6-24 in SFP. I'm sure the FFP is just as good, and in your price range. I'm sure others will start a list based on scopes they've used.

 

[PappiPT]

I'm not an expert but I would like to express some thoughts if I may

1) FFP, so you don't have to do exstra math( deviding or doubling) only to "downsides": reticle thin on low power, and big on high power. I'm very happy to have upgraded to FFP. Doesn't matter where you are on the power, 4 moa of target will always be 4 moa on the turrets. It's awaesome!

2) MOA, or you will have to do the math. (metric to imperial) And get both reticle and turrets alike, I.E. moa/moa or mill/mill( I was surprised how many big brands, still have mill reticle and moa turrets, or the other way around)

3) not sure

4) I have the Helix, and happy with it so far, but... Arken is american, and got really good revieuws. (Cyclops videos had a cool interview with tose guys) I would have gone for that one if it wasn't for this BS trading BS from US to EU! 

5) not sure.

I'm one year in my airgun journey, and there is much to learn, and much fun to be had!  

Plus all the good people here on the forum!

Greets from Norway

 

[KevinWood44]

Your 

I'm not an expert but I would like to express some thoughts if I may

1) FFP, so you don't have to do exstra math( deviding or doubling) only to "downsides": reticle thin on low power, and big on high power. I'm very happy to have upgraded to FFP. Doesn't matter where you are on the power, 4 moa of target will always be 4 moa on the turrets. It's awaesome!

2) MOA, or you will have to do the math. (metric to imperial) And get both reticle and turrets alike, I.E. moa/moa or mill/mill( I was surprised how many big brands, still have mill reticle and moa turrets, or the other way around)

3) not sure

4) I have the Helix, and happy with it so far, but... Arken is american, and got really good revieuws. (Cyclops videos had a cool interview with tose guys) I would have gone for that one if it wasn't for this BS trading BS from US to EU! 

5) not sure.

I'm one year in my airgun journey, and there is much to learn, and much fun to be had!  

Plus all the good people here on the forum!

Greets from Norway

Your answer to 1. makes a lot of sense!! How FFP stays consistent, that's a HUGE help and I think I will def go with that. Awesome feedback thank you

 

[18.13]

A mil reticle is not metric it is just in 10ths which to me is much easier to do the math. Where a moa reticle is 1 moa equals 1.047 inches at a 100 yards gets confusing to me 

 

[B]

1. FFP vs SFP, both got their use and I own both of them if you click doesn't matter but if you don't FFP is a better option but some guys don't like it when the reticle getting so small on low magnification.

2. Doesn't matter always get the reticle you like the best and get a range card for the rifle

3. 175Y for airgun it's a little bit of a stretch but could be done, I will choose something in x30 range minimum, I use to use X50 scope at 55Y for FT

4. Sorry can't help you here, but don't skip on the scope, if you can't see it or is unreliable you can't hit it.

As for .22, it's the best option, in my opinion, don't go higher than that for now, good thinking, also remember if you planning to go low power you may need a scope that focuses down to 10Y.

B

 

[Deerstalker]

Milliradians, (MRAD or Mil) and Minute of Angle, (MOA) Trivia

(Best with a 6 pack of BUD)



Formula for circumference of a circle = Diameter, (D) x Pi, (Pi = 3.14159.)

There are 7200” in (D) diameter of a 100 yard circle. (100 x 36” x 2 = 7200”)

Circumference of a circle at 100 yards = 22,619.448”, (7200” x 3.14159 Pi.)

MRAD and MOA is an angular, curved, measurement at a specific distance or range from the center of the circle. (A small piece or section of the circumference.)

6,283.185 Milliradians (MRAD) = 1 CIRCLE, (Pi 3.14159 x 2 x 1000 = 6,283.185 mathematical.)

6,400 Milliradians = 1 CIRCLE, (NATO rounded MRAD.)

21,600 Minutes = 1 CIRCLE, (360 degrees x 60 Minutes in 1 degree = 21,600 minutes)

1 MOA = 1.0471975” at 100 yards, 22,619.448”/21,600 Minutes, (1” rounded.)

1 MRAD = 3.6” at 100 yards, 22,619.448”/6283.185 MRAD, (mathematical.)

1 NATO MRAD = 3.534” at 100 yards, 22,619.448/6400 MRAD.

1 MRAD = 10 cm at 100 meters. (2 x PI x 1000 = 6283.185 MRADs in a circle). 100 meters = 10,000 cm x 2 = 20,000 cm in diameter of 100 meter circle. 20K x PI = 62,831.85/6,283.18 MRADs = 10 cm, for 1 MRAD at 100 meters = 10 centimeters.

1 MOA at 200 yards = 2”, at 400 yards = 4”, at 800 yards = 8”, etc.

1 MOA at 50 yards = ½”, 1 MOA at 25 yards = ¼”.

1 MOA at 1 mile = 18.43”

1 MOA on the Moon = 69.5 miles. (238,900 miles to the Moon)

Scope settings MOA or MRAD.

It also depends on what your scope's notion of 1 milliradian is, because the NATO milliradian differs from the mathematical definition of a milliradian.

A mathematically accurate radian is that part of a circle where 2 * PI radians is a full circle, and a milliradian, (MRAD), is 1/1000th of a radian, so a full circle is equal to approximately 6283.185 milliradians (2000 * PI).

But the NATO definition of a milliradian for use in ballistics is that a full circle is split into 6400 NATO milliradians.

 

[CoyoteGod]

I really love the Meopta Optika6 FFP. Fantastic glass, turret tracking is excellent, zero stop, lockable top turret, windage turret cap, illumination that can be seen in day time, lots of reticle options (z-plus is my favorite), parallax to 10yards, and it's usually available for the most part at $650-ish. I believe optika6 is better than the Athlon Ares BTR series and $50 cheaper. Your'e going to have a hard time finding a Arken right now unless you order and wait 6 months. If you really want to stay under $500 I would grab the Element Helix for sure, if you can go a little higher grab a Meopta. The Helix has a lot of great features, but missing some of the Meopta options that I really feel are worth the $150 more in the long run. 

FX no limit mounts are excellent and really give you lots of elevation to play with. I have some and love them. I also have a 20MOA one piece that I use a lot, both I like but with a Maverick you will want some MOA elevation help in the mount.

I was an SFP guy for years because I never had any issue with the hold over at a certain magnification because I understood it only worked at one magnification, but once I went FFP I didn't look back, all hold over points are exact no matter the magnification. I really enjoy it, especially in a "clean" reticle. I find myself using my turrets that are pre-doped every 5 yards to 125 and not holding over anyway so much, but with the hold overs being correct at any magnification, fast shots are always there if I need it, and it's working out really well. I picked MOA because I use inches, but also use the 13/4 layout so everything is really quick with 4 clicks per MOA. I have no experience with Mil scopes. I think Mil vs MOA this is a personal thing for guys.

What ever scope and reticle you get make sure you have the correct values calculated and its level on the rifle and it will perform well.

My opinion only, if you are going to own one rifle, I would get the .25. You will eventually want more power as you play, tune and shoot out of the maverick. .22CAL might leave you wanting, the 30 is too much (usually) for a backyard range. It's good middle ground. This of course unless you plan on owning more than one rifle. I personally started with a .22, then .25, then .30, then .357. My favorite is still the .25 followed closely by the 30. I could have skipped the .22 looking back. Again personal preference. 

 

[JimD]

My FFP is a Primary Arms 4-14X. It is almost unusable at 4X because the recticle is so hard to see. But at 6X and above, it works fine. It's nice that the hold over is the same at 6X as 14X. At least fairly low power is nice for hunting. I didn't place my shot as easily or well on a squirrel with my 25 Avenger because I had the Primary Arms turned up to 14X and set at 200 yards parallax. But it died, just took two shots. Most of the problem is I thought it would shoot a little high and it was pretty much dead on. But it would have been easier at 6X. For hunting you really do not need more than 6-9X. But higher is handy for shooting targets (and seeing your holes).

If I bought a new scope today, I am thinking it would be a black hound 6-24X 50mm. FFP, side focus parallax. Seems like it is a nice scope and goes for about $400. But a SFP is OK with me too, but you need to know your hold overs at the magnification you use. I have a little Hawke Vantage 2-7 on my Prod in addition to the PA 4-14 on my Avenger. I have different brand scope on my powder burners. Most are SFP and MOA. I sight in my air rifles to vary no more than 1/4 inch up or down from around 15 yards to as far out as possible. That prevents me from having to hold off most of the time. My Avenger is sighted in for nearly 40 yards and the Prod about 30.

MOA poops 1/4 inch per click at 100 yards, a mil radian scope is 1/10 of 3.6 inches or .36 inches. So a click moves your impact more in a mil radian scope. I also think better in MOA. When I look at how far I need to move my POI it is in inches which converts easier to MOA. But both work and I have both.

 

[steve123]

For the hunting part it'd be good for us to know what type of hunting. For example if you were hunting tree squirrels or any type of pointblank-ish hunting you could use most SFP low to mid magnification variable scopes that focus close and be in fine shape. Then you can take advantage of the thicker reticles. 

It's a lower powered 2-12x42 FFP but I've found the Athlon Helos G2 with it's thicker reticle to be awesome for most airgun tasks. Not taking wind into account, many of the airguns in existence will not consistently give a group size the size of the .3 mil dot in the reticle and the holdover/holdoff lines are thick enough to see on low magnification. The dot is the size of a fly at 10Y, smaller than the head of a chipmunk at 50Y, smaller than the size of a squirrels head at 100Y, and the size of a prairie dogs chest at 200Y. It's very effective for quick shooting too and the holds are the same whether on 2x or 12x. It's basically a crossover scope that does most things well. I'm very happy with mine for most purposes. 

That being said for target shooting and long range shooting I like High magnification FFP scopes. This would be my pick at close to your price range. I like the extra weight for those purposes and it has a lot of elevation travel. Plus fantastic reticles! I'd go for mil and the APRS6 personally but otherwise the moa APLR6.