Help on airgun choice and accuracy

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jimburns

Member
Apr 20, 2019
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Texas
New here, did some searching, read tons of reviews but the data is overwhelming and I think I need some feedback mostly about what I can even expect. I'm ex-Army, combat vet, Scout actually, and an Army Armorer, Co level, not at the gunsmith level but extensive experience with a wide array of rifles, pistols and larger, I reload, have a good collection of stuff shall we say, but I'm getting into the airgun world for the first time. I'd be lying if I said it wasn't for long term considerations but it's also more than that. 

I recently purchased what, in all the reviews suggested was one of the better .22 cal airguns, the Gamo Swarm Magnum but quickly returned it after not being able to get the scope zeroed at 30 yards. And when I say couldn't, it was literally as if I was Alice's brother searching for her in Wonderland, we were all over a 4ft by 4ft target and could achieve NO CONSISTENCY let alone get anywhere close to Zero. Yes, I'm the sort of guy that just put a Trijicon ACOG on his newest 556 so this isn't my first rodeo. But trying to understand what I was seeing here was just not fitting into anything in my experience.

Now I watched a Gamo video of a kid punching stationary clay targets at 100yrds, supposedly, but from my experience with this gun, I either had a bad one, did something terribly wrong, or that vid was all bullpoop editing!

Let me add one more thing, I wasn't in this alone, my girl was home from Spring Break and she shoots air for the US Coast Guard Academy and she couldn't make sense out of what we were seeing at a mere 30 yards.

Since this the one thing I identified I /may/ have done wrong is break-in. Now in the firearms world, break is is real, I get it, but I'm telling you, and I just zeroed that TA31, yes, I don't get quite the accuracy I /can/ get from it until we're through that process but the difference is well within the tolerance of, let's say at the worst, hunting accuracy versus competitive accuracy, so we're talking 2-3 inches at 100 versus .5 or less. And to be honest, I have rifles that were sub-MOA out of the box In most cases break-in has less to do with accuracy as it does in smooth functionality. But this Gamo was all over the place, like 7" right one minute, 6" left the next. What really drove us crazy was the elevation, which varied with almost as much variety! (OF COURSE, we kept constant the variables in our control. While we tried a few different pellets, we ran tests exclusively with one pellet at a time.) But is break-in on an airgun different? I must admit to not fully being able to visualize the internal mechanism of different airguns. I just want one to shoot and to shoot accurately at reasonable ranges.

I chose the Gamo because I came to learn that power was more a functionality of internal design not whether it was PCP or break-barrel or whatever and I want no reliance on pressurized air at this time. I hope for solid accuracy out to about 100 yards but I expect solid accuracy at 30-40 yards. My bow hunting yardage is generally around 40 yards so I understand that as a point of reference, with crossbow I can reach 60-75 solidly. I'd like to be at least as confident with an airgun at these ranges.

I'm leaving open that this may have been all my fault and misunderstanding with the airgun. And I realize this question of a best or better airgun is probably pretty controversial, and I don't aim to start any arguments, so I'm pretty much just going to listen. But I'd really like some expert or, at least, real experienced opinion here as I'd much rather spend $600 than waste $300!

Thanks for any thoughts,

Jim Burns

Houston


 
Gamos are a crapshoot as to if you get a good one. Could have been the scope gun or both. That being said there is a learning curve with spring piston airguns. They are the most sensitive idiosyncronist beasts you will ever attempt to tame. If you want to skip the learning curve, you can get one of the entry level PCPs and a hand pump. If you are in it to avoid searching for an air supply, you will want a better springer. Something along the lines of an RWS34, HW95/R9, HW97. Look up some explanations of the artillery hold, some do better with that hold, some do better with a firm yet consistant hold. If you understand the benefits of lower powered guns vs magnums, the best plinker you can get is an HW30/R7 (same gun different name).


 
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Jim as one old Ordinance company armorer I feel ya. Soo long ago but still understand. Do yourself a favor and pick up an HW (Weihrauch) new or used and you will smile. Lots of other great springers out there so don't everyone get their buns in a twiddle. It's just such an easy wonderful place to start. Look up on AoA websight. Used are almost always a superb buy. Nick
 
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A friend of mine purchased a couple of these for his kids at Christmas and brought them over to me to zero.

I am use to shooting sub1/2” groups as standard with all of my Weihrauch and Air Arms Springers at 18 yards on my Indoor range. The best we could get out of the Gamo rifles consistently was about 4 inches.

I then put it on the Chrono and found them to be shooting well over a 1000 FPS. If my memory serves me right they were +1200. My experience with .22 pellet rifles is that once one gets over 950, there is no way they will group. I went to the vault and got out some H&N Baracudas at 21 grains plus to tame them down a little bit and the group size reduced dramatically though not anything close to my standards.

As much as I hate to say it, you get about what you pay for and to get a 100 yard spring rifle you need to be in the +$700 range, something like a Diana RWS 54. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I don’t think your expectations of this combination is realistic.


 
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Life can be confusing. My nephew brought me a Gamo springer a few years ago to sight in for him as he had very limited experience with guns of any kind and I was happy to oblige him. At 20 yards the gun was all over the place … a slingshot would have grouped better … I could have got better groups shooting during an earthquake. Nothing, and I mean nothing I tried would make the gun group … not pellet … not hold … not trying another scope … not adjusting my breathing ... not crossing my fingers … not lucky rabbits foot … not holding my tongue just right … not one eye closed … not both eyes closed (cause I knew the shots couldn't be worse than I was getting with both eyes open.) Indeed Gamos are a crapshoot
 
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100 yard accuracy for a newb to airguns??? not gonna lie,youre gonna need to go to a pcp. 

-OR-

take the time to learn the artillery hold and learn how to shoot a springer well before you try those long shots.

also , dont look for the fastest speeds you can, as pellets do not like to go fast,get them up close to 1000fps and accuracy will absolutely suffer.



if you were shooting light pellets out of your gun they were probably going too fast to have any semblance of accuracy.





forget everything you know about powder burners when shooting airguns LOL


 
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OMG! I didn't expect such great feedback so fast! Thanks, already I have a lot to work with. It's not bad news bdzjlz, like I said, spending more on something that works as expected is much better in my book than tossing the cost of the Gamo out the window! I've learned well enough you get what you pay for, the reviews for the Gamo were pretty good.

Alas, I WAS probably improperly chasing fps and honestly that was part of my decision with the Gamo. Sounds like that's the completely wrong perspective. I had chosen top flight pellets from 14.5 or so up to 20 something but when it was hard to understand what was going on, I stopped working with the heavier weights and focused exclusively on the lightest in my test suite. That was probably the complete opposite of what I should have done.

I also found myself wondering if lead and and other hybrid pellets are or could even be made with the precision of bullets. I know I have definite preferences in bullet choices and I really found myself wondering if I was just expecting way too much from these lead air pellets.

The artillery hold was a completely new concept, I'll study it, accepting that the one quick article I just read on it is true, that CERTAINLY was a factor as I'm surely holding it as I would a rifle. Let me add a few questions,

1) my girl didn't mention anything about this (arty hold), is this mostly a springer thing? Is it a factor for PCP's? or not as much? I know the rifles they shoot at the USCGA are not break barrels like mine and she indicated they are compressed air powered but I don't know the technical details beyond that.

2) would this concept preclude putting the rifle in something like a lead sled? If I ever find myself having difficulty with a powder rifle, I have turned to my lead sled as a way to 'remove ME from the equation" as much as possible. It sure sounds like, based on the way the airgun works, this would surely be counter productive in the exact same way.

Thanks for the recommendations, I'll start studying them. While shooting is intrinsically fun, I need this to be an effective hunter as well. The biggest game I want/wish/hope to be able to confidently take with it is maybe coyote but that's on the large size and I've plenty of .22LR for that sort of thing. But I'd be lying if I said I wasn't hoping that I could get into an airgun that would be effective on coyotes. Given the gun and model recommendations, are we still on the right path?

I really need to study PCP with a pump. I had decided to just avoid them because I had read some technical articles on how the internal design, the air chamber, the valves, etc, were more a factor than whether it was break or PCP or what have you. That lead me toward the thinking that the real benefit of the PCP was fast follow shots, which I de-prioritized in my thinking. I do like seeing some airguns featuring small magazines, that's neat and awfully convenient, but I'm not chasing quick pop-pop-pop shooting as a priority.

Again, thanks for the outstanding feedback!



Jim Burns

Houston
 
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My condolence,you are about to enter a rather step learning carve oops curve ,believe me when I say they are not inclusive.If you do get a springer I would suggest a lower power one,why is because they are easier to shoot and more accurate ..German and English are usually better...learn more before you buy and good luck to you.


 
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OP, I've had two Swarm Maxxims in .22, and my shooting buddy had one in .177. All were extremely accurate, but we didn't just take 'em outta the box and start wingin'! I cleaned all of them with JB Non-Embedding Bore Paste on a brush, followed up by Hoppe's #9 and dry patching. Two of them were filthy. Second, I made certain all of the stock and scope screw were tight after a slathering of thread locker...and if I missed, it wasn't the rifle's fault. Hopefully, as an armorer, you did all these things, and if the rifle still didn't shoot accurately from a bench, well...

A springer is different than anything else, as others have pointed out. From my MTM portable shooting bench, I shoot off of a Caldwell Rock Jr. rest, and cup the buttstock with my off arm. The Rock will allow the forestock to slide, and no artillery hold is required. If you shoot off a bag, then yeah, you may find that the artillery hold is a benefit. Many guys use a rear bag, and you may find it beneficial, but the reason I don't use it is because I'm measuring my skill, not the rifle's ability.

I think maybe you gave up on the Swarm too soon. and until you get things dialed in, you'll probably find that even if you buy a TX200 or HW97, you're gonna be shootin' a shotgun! To me, I love the challenge of working with a springer until it and I become one...If you want to shoot an airgun without these challenges, there are quite a few PCP's available for three hundred bux or even less these days!!!
 
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Learning curve is right. I've shot powder since 15. Now over 60. Took up air 5 or 6 years ago. Boatloads more fun! No noise, little recoil. but, compressed air is different from powder. Spend the time to get to know your next gun (suggestions for higher end springers are right on the money). Use the artillery hold, let the gun move as it wants. You'll be shooting bullseyes in no time. Don't lose faith, just keep moving forward. (When you get the $$ together, loo at PCP's. Whole different world!)
 
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I think the only reason why I still keep a couple of break barrels is that the Artillery Hold goes against everything I have learned in shooting any type of firearms. An once you understand how to hold the weapon so that fire accurate, it provides a rush that borders on disbelief that I was a able to hit whatever holding a gun in such a manner.



And also with the lower end break barrels especially any thing magnum labeled or high power, every single screw has to be checked/tightened as one loose screw can change accuracy or just not having something line up due to not being put together at the factory by someone that really is only waiting for their day to end and the quality of their work means less than the number of guns they assemble.



PCP's you just know simply grab the gun and go.

Break barrels you really have to put in the work, but that's the best part imo.
 
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Pellets, along with their weights and shape, can also make a big difference. My Gamo is rather pellet picky, meaning that I can't change pellet types without having to reconfigure some. Shoot enough of the different quality pellets until you get an idea for what's good vs what's best. When you find that best pellet, then a lot of the flyers will start closing the CTC. However, the artillery hold on the Swarm Maxxim can be critical. Since it's a light gun (~5.64 lbs unscoped), the springer action can introduce a lot of bounce to interfere with you accuracy. I found that shooting from a rest support really removes much of the movement--though I still introduce plenty on my own.



Have fun and be safe.



Arch_E
 
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Hi Jim, just wanted you to know that you are not alone. I too fell for the Gamo Marketing schemes, and after watching some reviews on YouTube full of fact and no fluff, I bought my very own Gamo. It was my “forever” gun. That was a couple years ago. Less than 6 months after buying it, I found actual good information and bought several guns of good pedigree. The Gamo now serves me really well as a doorstop for my workshop. 

Since then I have a couple Walther LGVs in .177 & .22 as well as an HW30 in .177. I also have 3 PCPs. 2 Kalibrgun Crickets & a Taipan Veteran. 

It’s been a great ride so far, and have learned a lot. There are lots of very knowledgeable folk here that can offer great advice. 

If looking for a Springer, I urge you to look at Weihrauch, Air Arms, and Walther. 

Welcome to the club! 
 
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Hi Jim. I just got into air guns a little over a year ago and started with a Gamo Mach1. I put over 15000 pellets through it and feel I have found the hold it likes and have in fact started using that hold with other rifles. You said you shoot a crossbow. If you have experience with vertical bows then you should be familiar with back tension. When I shoot my Gamo gas piston I shoot with an open hand on the fore stock but it is very important to put your hand the same place every time. I place the tip of my index finger in the cocking arm cutout. Even when shooting off the bench I always rest the rifle in my hand. Next I wrap my fingers of my trigger hand around the pistol grip and squeeze enough to give a firm but not white knuckle grip. Next I start to pull the rifle into my shoulder with my trigger hand until it is very snug and then I start o pull the trigger. Notice I did not say squeeze it. I simply keep pulling as shooting a bow and pull the trigger at the same time. Make sure you are pulling straight away from the target. Another thing I do when shooting off the bench is raise the rifle and shoulder it as if I were shooting off hand. Then I drop down to the rest. This way I always put the rifle at the same spot on my shoulder. I now have a PCP which is extremely accurate but still shoot the break barrel 3 to 4 times as much simple because it is more of a challenge and gives me a great deal of satisfaction being able to pick it up and put the first pellet where I want it first shot. When you can pick up a break barrel that shoots lead pellets in the 800 fps range and put the first pellet where you want it you will have accomplished your goal. I still shoot mine every day but most times only 3 or 4 pellets at a time. I have a 12 yard range in my basement and my target has 1/2" spots on it and shoot most of my pellets through a 3/8" hole. Now as for as shooting at 100 yards I couldn't tell you but I can tell you by shooting at 35 yards that at 100 there would be no usable energy for killing anything but paper and the group would look like a shot gun pattern if there was any breeze at all.
 
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Jim,

Since you expressed interest in long range air gunning, you should read what Matt is doing in South Africa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Hvrm6pmXc

He has a number of videos posted and upcoming on <1 MOA precision with airguns. He's obviously using specialized equipment, but you can fit yourself out with these commercially available products for about $5-6K. Yep, just like powder burners longer range accuracy is pricey. If you only want 100 yd range, the cost can be less. In my experience and observation, reliable precision at ranges approaching 100 yds nearly always requires a PCP. My HW80 break-barrel will occasionally group 5 shots under 4" at 100 yds, but I don't consider that precise. Enjoy the trip!

jumpin
 
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....i had one of those plastic .22 gamos with scope and although it was a good deal for the $140 , i took it back that day....all of that plastic made it a little too light for me to really put faith into it. .do yourself a favor and try one of these - they're on sale....dianas are fine airguns w/ lifetime warranties.... the whole process of shooting a spring piston air rifle , or gas ram / piston one , is something you just have to make yourself learn - just stick with it....brand new dianas take a while to really break in (1000-1500 shots sometimes) BUT IT"S WORTH IT ! this is not a super powerful springer, so it'll be much easier to settle in with it.....just stick with decent pellets - h&n ftt pellets , crosman premiers , even jsb's........they say that if you master a break barrel or spring / piston gun , you're able to shoot any gun .. these guys had a much more powerful .22 cal diana model 52 on sale for $300 , but that'd be too much power for a suburban backyard shooting scenario (and it's not on sale now). all of this newer expensive pcp stuff is really popular but you'll likely come back to something like this .177 diana 430l combo after you get your fill of filling and pumping tanks. https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/spring-piston/diana-model-430l-combo-.177/ - hope this helps. - paul in ft.worth. 
 
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Just wanted to say thanks again for all the advice and feedback. I'm on it! But as this is something that has to fit into my otherwise chaotic life, (I've got my last daughter off to the USCGA this June! :( but Yea!) I didn't want gaps in the timing of my posts to suggest this was dead for me! I'm DOING this and I really appreciate all the help! I haven't decided but tentatively, my plan is to study all that y'all have given me and I'll make a decision on a quality first gun probably about mid July. My youngest will be EMCON 1 for most of 8 weeks during Swab Summer but my older daughter will be home on leave and I want her to participate since she has at least /some/ experience shooting air at the academy, so I've got a few months to read and study this in better detail as it seems it really requires! Great forums, I'm sure I'll have many more questions in the months ahead! Thanks again everyone!

Jim Burns

Houston
 
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