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Tuning Help me understand Reg Pressure VS Hammer Spring Tension

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kaylaindy

kaylaindy

Member
Jun 3, 2017
2,927
741
Washington, United States
My new regulated Hatsan Factor RC comes with a transfer port selector dial with 3 power levels, and a hammer spring tension adjustment wheel. I don't understand when I would want to touch the HTS spring VS lowering/upping the power via the transfer port dial. Is the HTS wheel to fine tune the velocity once I select my power level? -Nate

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It's all a balancing act to get consistent shot strings for whatever pellet/slug you're trying to shoot, and the speed/power you are wanting to shoot them at.

To learn how a PCP works and understand concepts like reg pressure and hammer spring tension you'd need to dedicate some serious time with a single gun, vs your typical pattern of "reviewing" guns that you don't really know much about. Not trying to ruffle feathers here, just calling a spade a spade. But seriously, a chronograph, some meticulous notes, and a lot of pellets over that chronograph would really help your knowledge base, which would in turn greatly improve your reviews. The basic concept is to make a single change and then see what effects that change has, record results and go from there.
 
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It's all a balancing act to get consistent shot strings for whatever pellet/slug you're trying to shoot, and the speed/power your are wanting to shoot them at.

To learn how a PCP works and understand concepts like reg pressure and hammer spring tension you'd need to dedicate some serious time with a single gun, vs your typical pattern of "reviewing" guns that you don't really know much about. Not trying to ruffle feathers here, just calling a spade a spade. But seriously, a chronograph, some meticulous notes, and a lot of pellets over that chronograph would really help your knowledge base, which would in turn greatly improve your "reviews."
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Exactly not some big mystery, theres countless videos on tuning on YT. Other manufacturers have had these same 3 parameters for a decade. It's a balance.
 
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It's all a balancing act to get consistent shot strings for whatever pellet/slug you're trying to shoot, and the speed/power you are wanting to shoot them at.

To learn how a PCP works and understand concepts like reg pressure and hammer spring tension you'd need to dedicate some serious time with a single gun, vs your typical pattern of "reviewing" guns that you don't really know much about. Not trying to ruffle feathers here, just calling a spade a spade. But seriously, a chronograph, some meticulous notes, and a lot of pellets over that chronograph would really help your knowledge base, which would in turn greatly improve your reviews. The basic concept is to make a single change and then see what effects that change has, record results and go from there.
Click to expand...

Thank you! That totally answers my question. I wanted to know if I had to do the "balancing act" thing...I was afraid having 2 adjustment knobs meant that. 

On my channel I test guns "out of the box". I don't have the patience or time to tune the guns. I would love to understand how the balancing act works, but I can't really get into it with guns I review. I'm not AEAC, getting paid $3k per video. I can't even afford pellets: another big reason you won't find me tuning guns. The whole process sounds horrific to me. I'll gladly pay an extra $2k for a gun that's already tuned.

Any gun where I have to turn dials and experiment to get to shoot accurately, I have NO interest in....and that includes the Hatsan Factor of which I just bought 2. Lets hope Hatsan tuned it at the factory!
 
Upvote 0
It's all a balancing act to get consistent shot strings for whatever pellet/slug you're trying to shoot, and the speed/power you are wanting to shoot them at.

To learn how a PCP works and understand concepts like reg pressure and hammer spring tension you'd need to dedicate some serious time with a single gun, vs your typical pattern of "reviewing" guns that you don't really know much about. Not trying to ruffle feathers here, just calling a spade a spade. But seriously, a chronograph, some meticulous notes, and a lot of pellets over that chronograph would really help your knowledge base, which would in turn greatly improve your reviews. The basic concept is to make a single change and then see what effects that change has, record results and go from there.
Click to expand...

Thank you! That totally answers my question. I wanted to know if I had to do the "balancing act" thing...I was afraid having 2 adjustment knobs meant that. 

On my channel I test guns "out of the box". I don't have the patience or time to tune the guns. I would love to understand how the balancing act works, but I can't really get into it with guns I review. I'm not AEAC, getting paid $3k per video. I can't even afford pellets: another big reason you won't find me tuning guns. The whole process sounds horrific to me. I'll gladly pay an extra $2k for a gun that's already tuned.

Any gun where I have to turn dials and experiment to get to shoot accurately, I have NO interest in....and that includes the Hatsan Factor of which I just bought 2. Lets hope Hatsan tuned it at the factory!
Click to expand...

Lots of potential improvement to be had if you understand how the gun works and have a little bit of patience to make it happen. And tuners who will give YOUR gun as much care and attention as you will yourself are few and far between. Without being willing to tinker/tune/optimize, you will rarely have a gun that shoots any better than all of the other models of that exact gun in their OEM state. Yeah, you might run across a unicorn that came decently tuned from the factory, but that's kinda like winning the lottery, it won't happen often. 

As for your reviews, if you'd be willing to educate yourself some, you'd gain a completely new fan base. Most airgunners are very technically minded individuals. That's why Steve at AEAC has been successful to the point of companies paying him, princely sums at that, to do reviews. He includes the details that we all want to know about. Yes that takes time and patience and at the very least a rudimentary knowledge base about the statements you are making. Reviews that are heavy on enthusiasm about a gun you got yesterday and will be selling tomorrow are just that, heavy on the enthusiasm, light on the meat and potatoes that serious airgunners care about and want to know. 

Not trying to tear you down, just offering some constructive criticism to the two of your review videos that I started and gave up on real quick. 

As for your claim about not being able to afford pellets, that's simply silly. The way you buy and sell guns, and the volume in which you do so makes a pretty convincing argument against that claim. The money you're losing on selling so many guns at used prices would easily pay for enough pellets to do some meaningful testing. Your potential audience wants to know how these review guns SHOOT, since that's what they were designed for and intended to do. 
 
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In short, and to answer the question as asked...

Hammer Spring adjustment affects how hard the hammer strikes the valve. The harder the hammer hits the valve, the more air is released from the plenum.

What is the plenum? It is the area behind the valve that holds the charge of air that is released when the valve opens.

What does a regulator do? It allows compressed air to leave the tank at a measured and consistent pressure. It allows for a high pressure tank to have a valve work at a much lower pressure. A 3600psi tank can be regulated to 1100 psi, so the valve can be tuned to operate at a much lower pressure, which can be many times more accurately metered and can be much more efficient in terms of power output for air consumed. Regulators can be high maintenance. 

Those variables need to be tinkered with to find the harmonic balance that achieves your goal, be that huge power or huge shot count or somewhere between those two. Most of the time there are 3 and 4 variables to work with, including pellet weight. It helps to have a destination in mind before you start twiddling the dials. #1 rule is to make note of where you begin, so that you can get back to where it was when you are at a dead end.

Shoot'em good.
 
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I'll explain the process that has worked for me, without the advantage of having a reg tester. At any given reg set point, I advance HST to the point of maximum velocity. If around 93-95% of that speed is what I want, then I'm finished, and I back off the hammer spring to reach that velocity. If I want more or less velocity, then I change the reg setting. I have found, in most rifles I have not had to change the reg set point. When I installed a Huma reg in my Royale 400, I had to remove and adjust it a number of times to get it right. It's a tedious task without a tester, so I try to avoid it, and sometimes do more with the HST setting than I probably should. But, if my shot count is acceptable, and the chrono doesn't indicate anything crazy happening as it falls off the reg, I figure it's good enough.
 
Upvote 0
It's all a balancing act to get consistent shot strings for whatever pellet/slug you're trying to shoot, and the speed/power you are wanting to shoot them at.

To learn how a PCP works and understand concepts like reg pressure and hammer spring tension you'd need to dedicate some serious time with a single gun, vs your typical pattern of "reviewing" guns that you don't really know much about. Not trying to ruffle feathers here, just calling a spade a spade. But seriously, a chronograph, some meticulous notes, and a lot of pellets over that chronograph would really help your knowledge base, which would in turn greatly improve your reviews. The basic concept is to make a single change and then see what effects that change has, record results and go from there.
Click to expand...

Thank you! That totally answers my question. I wanted to know if I had to do the "balancing act" thing...I was afraid having 2 adjustment knobs meant that. 

On my channel I test guns "out of the box". I don't have the patience or time to tune the guns. I would love to understand how the balancing act works, but I can't really get into it with guns I review. I'm not AEAC, getting paid $3k per video. I can't even afford pellets: another big reason you won't find me tuning guns. The whole process sounds horrific to me. I'll gladly pay an extra $2k for a gun that's already tuned.

Any gun where I have to turn dials and experiment to get to shoot accurately, I have NO interest in....and that includes the Hatsan Factor of which I just bought 2. Lets hope Hatsan tuned it at the factory!
Click to expand...

I hope you meet the accuracy you need of your Hatsans without any tuning efforts, and are able to maintain it over time. But I have learned that, whether cheap or expensive, PCPs tend to behave erratically at one time or another. This applies to regulated ones even more than to unregulated ones.

Some mild tuning & experimentation (between types of pellets, trigger weight, HST, reg set point, scope ring height, silencers etc) therefore simply comes with the territory ... You also had better know how to replace an o-ring or the hobby risks becoming expensive & hobbled by long repair return waits.

For me tuning is also most of the fun with PCPs -- together with their irresistible entertainment value to feral parrots of course ! 🐦
 
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I am still new to pcp but I'm sure the hatsan will work great with certain pellets at the factory settings. Having the adjustments allows you to fine tune it to work with other pellets, and the distances you are working with. The adjustments allows it to be more user friendly for a varietyof shooters. These adjustments can also make it unusable for certain types of shooting like being backyard friendly. 

Just remember your baseline setting, so you can go back to it.
 
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Thanks for all the info guys! You almost have me talked into learning more about tuning. I guess if it would get me closer to a $3k paycheck it really would be a valiable skill to learn. 

I appreciate you guys thinking I'm actually smart enough to figure all that stuff out. Steve is a smart dude, I'm just a regular dude...not known as "the smart guy" if you know what I mean. 

If I was going to study an area of airgunning I would, and plan too, get into windage and shooting in the wind. I think whoever wins extreme benchrest comes down to whoever can read the wind the best and knows how to hold over. I feel like anyone could put shots through the bullseye with the PCP rifles they have now. It's going to all come down to windage. 

I will think about learning the tuning side too. I'll start paying attention to that. 

Thanks for the advice everyone. It's funny, people were telling me to be more like Steve when I started....and now two years later they're still telling me to be more like Steve.

Careful what you wish for! LOL! 
 
Upvote 0
In short, and to answer the question as asked...

Hammer Spring adjustment affects how hard the hammer strikes the valve. The harder the hammer hits the valve, the more air is released from the plenum.

What is the plenum? It is the area behind the valve that holds the charge of air that is released when the valve opens.

What does a regulator do? It allows compressed air to leave the tank at a measured and consistent pressure. It allows for a high pressure tank to have a valve work at a much lower pressure. A 3600psi tank can be regulated to 1100 psi, so the valve can be tuned to operate at a much lower pressure, which can be many times more accurately metered and can be much more efficient in terms of power output for air consumed. Regulators can be high maintenance. 

Those variables need to be tinkered with to find the harmonic balance that achieves your goal, be that huge power or huge shot count or somewhere between those two. Most of the time there are 3 and 4 variables to work with, including pellet weight. It helps to have a destination in mind before you start twiddling the dials. #1 rule is to make note of where you begin, so that you can get back to where it was when you are at a dead end.

Shoot'em good.
Click to expand...

Thank you for explaining this in layman's terms. I learned a lot.
 
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