Help. I'm ignorant.

[Unobtanium]

I grew up shooting air-rifles, and enjoyed them as late as around 2003. I used a 550fps pump-up .22 caliber to kill Texas Jack Rabbits. It was great fun and the dog loved it. Anyways, I find myself with a squirrel problem, and often they are out of shotgun range. This leaves me with my suppressed .22, but that's too much. I don't want that "down range liability". The reason for the problem is that they chew on my house/decking, and I want to kill them.

I also enjoy shooting.

Yesterday, my girlfriend and I toured the Daisy air-gun museum, which is local to us as is Daisy. There, I purchased a Winchester 1100ss, and on Amazon I bought a cheap 3-9 airgun scope with decent 5-star rating.

I played with it some today, and shooting flat-point Daisy pellets, accuracy at 50 yards was very lacking. At 25 yards, it was just fine. I noted pellets tumbling at 50 yards, as evidenced by paper target. I went with some Gamo Tomahawk pellets (they remind me of Hydrashok centerfire ammunition) and they did much better, but some were still unstable.

What pellet should I buy? It is a .177 caliber rifle.


_______________________________________________________

If this pellet rifle does okay, and I enjoy it, I will be looking into a "better" one some time in the next 2 months. I do not want one that takes gear to support (pumps/chargers/ whatever). I also want one that is reliable. One that will work like new in 30 years if I even half-way maintain it. Accuracy is #1 to me. I want .177 or .22 caliber. If it's a .22, I want 800+fps, if it's .177, I want 1100fps with a heavy lead pellet (not the lightest ones, but the 10+gr stuff). I also would like a recommendation for a good scope and rings.

The budget for the rifle is $300, and the scope, the same. However, I don't plan to "pay for glass" like I do with my centerfire rifles. I would prefer a $100 scope known to be "unkillable" but have "mediocre glass" vs. pay $300 for "the whole package". We are talking <100 yards here. I'm not going to get snobby with it.

First, last, and foremost, is: reliable/worry-free.

Thanks for your advice, and please, feel free to break it down stupid for me. I understand t he centerfire, pistol, and shotgun world, but the air rifle world, not so much. Thank-you!

 

[Unobtanium]

So far, this is what I'm considering: https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Diana_RWS_34P_Striker_Combo/1689/3372
It looks like I could replace 2 parts, and be good to go "indefinitely"! What tools are required to install these parts? Are these good items, or...?
http://vortekproducts.com/ourstore/RWS34%20Airgun%20Tuning%20Kit
I am still in the dark on a scope, and don't know what the air-gun world is about here. I do know even my Kahles and Nightforce quality scopes would die hard on a spring-powered gun, though, so...? Is the included scope worth beans? Or is it like putting Cooper tires on a Ferrari?

 

[outdoorman]

I have a Diana 34 .22 caliber and I've installed the Vortek PG-2 kit. I also have that UTG Weaver mount and that same UTG scope. It is a decent scope and has held up for two years and over 20,000 pellets fired through the gun. I did opt for wide scope mounts that have 6 screws per mount. The scope has never moved. I shoot just about every day. I have had to replace the Vortek spring as the first one eventually broke, in two places. You will need to make a spring compressor to install it. I use a shooting stick and I'm very accurate out to 50 yards with it. I would also suggest replacing that cheap plastic butt plate with a cushioned rubber one. It will make a difference in accuracy and consistency. You will not get 800fps with lead pellets in .22 caliber. Don't get hung up on velocity. With 16gr JSB's I'm getting 680fps for over 16ftlbs of energy.

 

[JohnL57]

Welcome!
In answer to your pellet question- in general a domed pellet like the Crosman premier, JSB, H&N field target or Baracuda will shoot best at longer ranges. 50 yards is pushing it a bit for a Springer but is doable with practice. Both Daisy and Gamo pellets are not highly thought of. As far as what you can get locally try Crosman premiers or Benjamin domes. Good luck!
John

 

[Unobtanium]

"JohnL57"Welcome!
In answer to your pellet question- in general a domed pellet like the Crosman premier, JSB, H&N field target or Baracuda will shoot best at longer ranges. 50 yards is pushing it a bit for a Springer but is doable with practice. Both Daisy and Gamo pellets are not highly thought of. As far as what you can get locally try Crosman premiers or Benjamin domes. Good luck!
John

Should I look elsewhere? I remember killing large Jack Rabbits at 50+ yards in my teens. I paced it off, and my paces are generally +-3 per 100 yards. I've lasered and measure-wheeled this time and again. I was only using a 550fps .22 air rifle. It was dead on out to 50+ yards. Past that, drop became too difficult for me to measure in relation to distance just eye-balling it.

Is t here a reason that a spring powered air rifle would not be adequate at 75+ yards, provided the projectile had the requisite energy? At 50 yards, I was getting 3" groups for 5 shots or so from my Winchester/Daisy referenced in post #1, this morning, but this was without a scope, and with pellets that I am iffy on. I will upgrade to the dome pellets as suggested!

This is the scope I bought last night that is headed my way:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00419C08Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I went with it because it was cheap, and fit the motif of the Daisy air rifle I had already.

 

[Unobtanium]

"outdoorman"I have a Diana 34 .22 caliber and I've installed the Vortek PG-2 kit. I also have that UTG Weaver mount and that same UTG scope. It is a decent scope and has held up for two years and over 20,000 pellets fired through the gun. I did opt for wide scope mounts that have 6 screws per mount. The scope has never moved. I shoot just about every day. I have had to replace the Vortek spring as the first one eventually broke, in two places. You will need to make a spring compressor to install it. I use a shooting stick and I'm very accurate out to 50 yards with it. I would also suggest replacing that cheap plastic butt plate with a cushioned rubber one. It will make a difference in accuracy and consistency. You will not get 800fps with lead pellets in .22 caliber. Don't get hung up on velocity. With 16gr JSB's I'm getting 680fps for over 16ftlbs of energy.

Thanks! That's what I'm looking at, but in synthetic. Is there a reason to go with the Vortek out of the box, or is it a "replacement" for when the OEM has issues? Since you've "seen the guts" of both, how do they differ and is one more durable/better than the other (OEM vs. Vortek, for the RWS34)?

Yes, I am plenty happy with +-700 from a lead .22 pellet. Glad to know the scope/mount are fine!

Can I just use this, or will it not work on the RWS34 model?:
https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_Venturi_Rail_Lock_Spring_Compressor/7764

Also, how much torque did you use on that scope? On my Kahles and other scopes, I use 18 inch-pounds. On my Leupold and Nightforce scopes, I use 25 inch-pounds. What does that scope/mount spec?

 

[outdoorman]

I would go with the Vortek right away. It will give a much smoother shot cycle and eliminate the twang of the stock configuration. The Vortek has a spring guide that fits over the spring unlike the stock guide. Yes, that compressor will work. I don't torque my scope screws, just make them tight. I'm using Burris XTR rings. I would also file and polish the sharp edges on the compression tube to eliminate damage to the piston seal when reinstalling the piston. I recommend completely degreasing the compression tube and only use Krytox GPL-205 grease. It's expensive but worth it as it has no flash point and will not cause the gun to diesel as most other lubricants will. Not that minor dieseling is a terribly bad thing, I just prefer to eliminate that all together.

 

[Unobtanium]

"outdoorman"I would go with the Vortek right away. It will give a much smoother shot cycle and eliminate the twang of the stock configuration. The Vortek has a spring guide that fits over the spring unlike the stock guide. Yes, that compressor will work. I don't torque my scope screws, just make them tight. I'm using Burris XTR rings. I would also file and polish the sharp edges on the compression tube to eliminate damage to the piston seal when reinstalling the piston. I recommend completely degreasing the compression tube and only use Krytox GPL-205 grease. It's expensive but worth it as it has no flash point and will not cause the gun to diesel as most other lubricants will. Not that minor dieseling is a terribly bad thing, I just prefer to eliminate that all together.

I checked out the Krytox GPL-205. It's PTFE based. PTFE is very toxic when combusted, and the grease is rated to 400*F. Did you mean a different product, or is 400*F sufficient for this application?

 

[WildcatEric]

I have the same Diana 34 with the vortek kit installed and its a freakin' dream and breeze to shoot. Plenty of Power and accuracy to go around, The gun just flat out shoots! I use The .22 caliber H&N Field target trophies in my gun and it shoots them lights out. Stacking pellets at 30 yards and busting sycamore balls at 50 yards. I paired it with an inexpensive leapers 3-9 scope that has tracked since the day of purchase. Great gun/scope combo and with the vortek kit installed their is no spring twang or cheap sounding springer noise, its truly a pleasure to shoot. Cocking effort is up there, if you're older it cause a little bit of getting used to. All in all, Its a great gun for the money and you won't be disappointed. 

 

[outdoorman]

I checked out the Krytox GPL-205. It's PTFE based. PTFE is very toxic when combusted, and the grease is rated to 400*F. Did you mean a different product, or is 400*F sufficient for this application?

Yes, it is sufficient. Krytox lubricants are not combustible nor do they ignite. The increase in air temperature to over 1000° within the compression chamber due to it's very rapid compression is an adiabatic process. That is, it happens so quickly and briefly, there is no transfer of this heat to it's surroundings. Fumes from typical lubricants that have a low enough flash point will ignite and cause dieseling. This will not happen with Krytox lubes. 

 

[crittahitta]

The rws 34 is an awesome gun. But try a good domed pellet first.

 

[Unobtanium]

"outdoorman"

I checked out the Krytox GPL-205. It's PTFE based. PTFE is very toxic when combusted, and the grease is rated to 400*F. Did you mean a different product, or is 400*F sufficient for this application?

Yes, it is sufficient. Krytox lubricants are not combustible nor do they ignite. The increase in air temperature to over 1000° within the compression chamber due to it's very rapid compression is an adiabatic process. That is, it happens so quickly and briefly, there is no transfer of this heat to it's surroundings. Fumes from typical lubricants that have a low enough flash point will ignite and cause dieseling. This will not happen with Krytox lubes.

So if I understand correctly, you are saying it is the FUMES of other greases and lubricants that cause the issue, and that Krytox products do not have fumes, not necessarily that the grease of oil itself combusts or is the issue, correct?

 

[Unobtanium]

"Unobtanium"

"outdoorman"

I checked out the Krytox GPL-205. It's PTFE based. PTFE is very toxic when combusted, and the grease is rated to 400*F. Did you mean a different product, or is 400*F sufficient for this application?

Yes, it is sufficient. Krytox lubricants are not combustible nor do they ignite. The increase in air temperature to over 1000° within the compression chamber due to it's very rapid compression is an adiabatic process. That is, it happens so quickly and briefly, there is no transfer of this heat to it's surroundings. Fumes from typical lubricants that have a low enough flash point will ignite and cause dieseling. This will not happen with Krytox lubes.

So if I understand correctly, you are saying it is the FUMES of other greases and lubricants that cause the issue, and that Krytox products do not have fumes, not necessarily that the grease of oil itself combusts or is the issue, correct?

I tried some domed pellets, and this was the best 5-shot group I managed at a measly 35 yards using the iron sights, kneeling and braced on my deck railing.

I found that a firm hold on the weapon was necessary. I tried all the fancy "Artillery" and "Olympic" type holds you can think of, but this gun is like a shotgun. you need to hold it firmly, yet not strangle it, and when it fires "let it do".

Honestly it's really annoying. Is the RWS this temperamental?

I am hoping when my optic shows up I can shoot some decent groups. So far, I am a bit let down. Well, I say that. I did pay $50 for it at the Daisy museum, so hey, that's honestly not a bad deal.

 

[outdoorman]

Yes, it's the fumes. Krytox can fume as well but it doesn't matter, it has zero flash point, it cannot ignite. 

Just went out and did 5 shots from 25 yards and 5 from 35 yards. I'm using a shooting stick (monopole) only supporting the pole with my left hand. I could do better using a bipod, tripod or shooting from a rest. For me, stacking pellets from a bench is boring. I enjoy the challenge of shooting off hand or using a single shooting stick and the challenge of shooting a springer. See video's below for some fun shooting.

 

[Saltlake58]

While break barrels have the power you are looking for, I find them hard to shoot, mostly because of the mechanics and vibration.

​So, in the vein of, "If you'd only spend a little bit more" line, here's a suggestion.

​Try a PCP combo. It'd be in the $340 range by the time you are done, but it's a whole different way to shoot air rifles.

​Crosman has a Maximus starter kit for $349. Use the 25% off coupon AGNATION on checkout and it's $263. It comes with gun, pellets, shooting glasses and spinner target. You'll still need a scope. If you would be happy with a Daisy scope, anything on the Crosman website would do so, try the 4-16x44 for $79, but with the discount, it's $60 for a total cost of $323. Order on Friday and it's usually free shipping.

You'd still need a set of Scope Rings, but those can be had at Walmart for $15 or less. standard .22 "Tip Off" rings should do the trick.

​So, for an extra $40, you can get into a PCP with plenty of power and without the vibration of a break barrel. Crosman scopes are all Airgun Rated, so the scopes they have will work on anything. PCP's can use any scope from any rifle as they don't have the vibration of a Break Barrel.

​Total price, under $340, you've got a good gun, it gets good reviews, and is accurate.
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