Help a noob find an air rifle

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Springer fans will certainly say, my springer is as accurate as any PCP and I shot a crow in the eye at 115 yards. Grin!! 

I am 67, have shot air rifles for 40 plus years both target and small game hunting. I have owned just about every air rifle of any quality both springers and PCP over the years. Springers are simply hard to shoot, they are all......all of them hold sensitive. Hold sensitive is OK at the bench, not OK for small game hunting where every shot has a different shooting position, hold etc. The small varmint organization promotes springers and loves hunters with springers as small varmints see great safety in springers as most hunters will miss. Grin. With a PCP you can relax, hold it any way you wish and small varmints tremble in fear. 

A PCP is the deal. So before you can find out answers and afford something like a Daystate Red Wolf, I tell you true that I have a Wolf and I also have half a dozen so called entry level PCP rifles. Of them all the Gamo Urban is the best of the bunch. I just this morning shot a .31 group at 50 yards with mine. I get 30 good full power shots for 50 or 100 yards and another 10 shots say for out to 30 yards. I cheat and use a compressor to fill all my guns, however I have pumped it up with my Hill Pump just to see and it takes five minutes or so. Not bad at all. The Gamo Urban you can buy under 300 dollars and is a fantastic little gun. This is not the ordinary substandard situation of the typical Gamo break barrel. This actually a very nice rifle. 

My next choice for entry level PCP is the Diana Outlaw. Another very nice and accurate shooter. However it is around 500 dollars. 

Cheers

Kit
 
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I'm reading a lot of good things about the Benjamin Marauder. From what I'm seeing it sounds like it would be a "buy once, cry once" kind of rifle that would give me the features and accuracy I want while being reliable and durable.

Anyone have one of these? What do you think of it?
Click to expand...

I have Benjamin Armada which is a marauder with rails,accurate and reliable but bigger and heavier than the urban..and more money too.Marauder at Walmart like 500 bucks.
 
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Springer fans will certainly say, my springer is as accurate as any PCP and I shot a crow in the eye at 115 yards. Grin!! 

I am 67, have shot air rifles for 40 plus years both target and small game hunting. I have owned just about every air rifle of any quality both springers and PCP over the years. Springers are simply hard to shoot, they are all......all of them hold sensitive. Hold sensitive is OK at the bench, not OK for small game hunting where every shot has a different shooting position, hold etc. The small varmint organization promotes springers and loves hunters with springers as small varmints see great safety in springers as most hunters will miss. Grin. With a PCP you can relax, hold it any way you wish and small varmints tremble in fear. 

A PCP is the deal. So before you can find out answers and afford something like a Daystate Red Wolf, I tell you true that I have a Wolf and I also have half a dozen so called entry level PCP rifles. Of them all the Gamo Urban is the best of the bunch. I just this morning shot a .31 group at 50 yards with mine. I get 30 good full power shots for 50 or 100 yards and another 10 shots say for out to 30 yards. I cheat and use a compressor to fill all my guns, however I have pumped it up with my Hill Pump just to see and it takes five minutes or so. Not bad at all. The Gamo Urban you can buy under 300 dollars and is a fantastic little gun. This is not the ordinary substandard situation of the typical Gamo break barrel. This actually a very nice rifle. 

My next choice for entry level PCP is the Diana Outlaw. Another very nice and accurate shooter. However it is around 500 dollars. 

Cheers

Kit
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Thanks for the detailed response. I think I'll be avoiding the springers for the reasons you noted. I value accuracy above all, so anything that makes an air rifle easier to shoot is a plus.

I doubt I'll ever have the money to get a nicer high end PCP. I could see myself saving up a bit and getting something in the 500 dollar range. But then I'll have to use a hand pump for it...compressors are freaking expensive!!!
 
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I'm reading a lot of good things about the Benjamin Marauder. From what I'm seeing it sounds like it would be a "buy once, cry once" kind of rifle that would give me the features and accuracy I want while being reliable and durable.

Anyone have one of these? What do you think of it?
Click to expand...

I have Benjamin Armada which is a marauder with rails,accurate and reliable but bigger and heavier than the urban..and more money too.Marauder at Walmart like 500 bucks.
Click to expand...

Wow, the Armada is like a Marauder on steroids! Pricey too.

I might try to stretch the budget a bit and get the Marauder. Every time I research a bit more I come across more info on it that impresses me. I'm probably going to spring for the version with the Lothar Walther barrel too.
 
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Just food for thought and a test in patience. I bought a Hatsan AT44 (non QE version so pretty loud). I waited nearly 3 months for the price to drop to $254 dollars. I also grabbed a DAVV compressor of Ebay for $249.99 (I have never seen them at that price again so that was one of those once in a lifetime deals). BUT if you can stretch you budget a bit the AT44 should tick all the boxes (SUPER accurate, great usable power, add a $100 TKO LDC and this thing is mouse fart quiet). I guess my point is if you can muster up the patience and keep an eye out for the deals, you can do this PCP thing on a tight budget. Meanwhile while your waiting for the deal of a lifetime, try to set aside a little extra cash (it is easy if you really try- like give up the Starbucks- Bing there's like $6 bucks a day in your pocket, take your lunch to work instead of going out- Bing another $5 or $6 bucks, pick up a couple hours overtime- bam. Get a frozen pizza on Friday night instead of take out Bingo there's $15 bucks!) I also use an Amazon credit card (I NEVER carry a balance) and save up the points. Amazing how quickly it all adds up. These are all little things I do to save up for major purchases. No I'm not rich, just a working grunt who is underpaid. BUT when my company offers the OT I take it (we get every other Friday off but I worked today as they offered up some OT and I'm itching for a mower for up at my property so I don't have to try to haul my home one back and forth).
 
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Just food for thought and a test in patience. I bought a Hatsan AT44 (non QE version so pretty loud). I waited nearly 3 months for the price to drop to $254 dollars. I also grabbed a DAVV compressor of Ebay for $249.99 (I have never seen them at that price again so that was one of those once in a lifetime deals). BUT if you can stretch you budget a bit the AT44 should tick all the boxes (SUPER accurate, great usable power, add a $100 TKO LDC and this thing is mouse fart quiet). I guess my point is if you can muster up the patience and keep an eye out for the deals, you can do this PCP thing on a tight budget. Meanwhile while your waiting for the deal of a lifetime, try to set aside a little extra cash (it is easy if you really try- like give up the Starbucks- Bing there's like $6 bucks a day in your pocket, take your lunch to work instead of going out- Bing another $5 or $6 bucks, pick up a couple hours overtime- bam. Get a frozen pizza on Friday night instead of take out Bingo there's $15 bucks!) I also use an Amazon credit card (I NEVER carry a balance) and save up the points. Amazing how quickly it all adds up. These are all little things I do to save up for major purchases. No I'm not rich, just a working grunt who is underpaid. BUT when my company offers the OT I take it (we get every other Friday off but I worked today as they offered up some OT and I'm itching for a mower for up at my property so I don't have to try to haul my home one back and forth).
Click to expand...


All good points. I don't do Starbucks and rarely eat out, but I get what you're saying. I use a credit card for everything and pay it off each month and use the 1.5% cash back points for "fun money". There's always ways to save a little money here and there.

I don't really have a cash flow problem per se, I could easily go buy a Marauder and a compressor right now, I'm just having a hard time justifying the compressor expense mentally. Then I need a scope and rings, a gun case, plus a sling and a slew of different pellets to try out. It's probably gonna hit 1,000 bucks pretty easily even with a cheaper compressor. If I set aside a little cash every month earmarked for it then it'll be easier to swallow, but I'm not a patient person in a lot of ways. I know what its going to cost and I accept that and still want to do it...so why wait? LOL. I'm just trying to educate myself so I don't have any regrets.

I think I'm going to get the Marauder and roll the dice on a Yong Heng compressor ($250.00 bucks). That compressor MIGHT end up being a regret, but I'm not spending 1200 or 1600 bucks on a compressor...
 
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A solution to pumps and compressors. Also better for your air rifle long term. I am currently using a Nomad 2, just because I was curious about it. So far so good and it has been going for around 7 months. I fill just the guns with it and do not try to push it and fill a bottle. It cost 700 dollars, and I expect to see them around 400 in a year or two as competition wakes up.

In my garage sits a 6000 psi nitrogen bottle. Any and all welding supply shops have them and you can rent the bottle for X dollars per year and if and when the pressure falls below what you need you call them and they deliver a new one and pick up the old one. You have to buy a special regulator and gauge that installs on the bottle with the proper threads etc, etc. I shoot a lot and one full nitrogen bottle lasts me six months or so. You get lots and lots of fills out of 6000 psi. You can search the internet and find out all the details and sources for the gauge, regulator and fill system. I forget where I bought that, there are several sources. 

Cost? 

Yearly rent fee for bottle is 160 dollars. Your cost will vary area to area, I live in South Carolina so much cheaper than say New York. 

A bottle trade and or fill is 90 bucks. 

A couple heavy J hooks to screw into garage wall studs and chain to safely secure bottle 15 bucks. 

If you are or become an avid air gunner this is the solution. This is an forgotten solution I very rarely see even mentioned on any air gun forum or information site. When it is will be the typical statements of NITROGEN......will tear up your air rifle......yep.....well duh....the air we breath is almost all nitrogen. It is actually better for an air gun as there is ZERO moisture and seals and o rings last much longer. 

I am 67 and I am not pumping any rifle unless it is an emergency.

I am not going to pay 3000 dollars for a compressor that may or may not last a year without some kind of repair and all of them break, it is what compressors do. I have had several of them and they always break and it is expensive for repairs. 

I like the little Nomad, however it is expensive, but I can take it with me in the vehicle and charge an air rifle in the field if I want as you can use your vehicle battery to power it. However you will have to spend an additional 30 bucks for wire appropriate for the amp draw and some connectors and shrink wrap tubing as the wire harness is so short you will have to have your rifle in the engine compartment unless you do extend the wires. I drive an SUV and simply set the Nomad and rifle in the rear and that works well with the extended wire harness. 

Check out the nitrogen solution. If you do get serious about air guns, this is the best solution of them all. 



Cheers

Kit
 
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I am an admitted newbie to the air game. Well,guns in general though I own them. The previous post about nitrogen is eye opening. Why isn’t this considered a viable option to compressors? Been doing a lot of reading and even bought a compressor myself. May not have if this post had been available. Is it true that nitrogen may be a better option? And can you refill say a cf bottle from said nitro tank? 
 
Upvote 0
A solution to pumps and compressors. Also better for your air rifle long term. I am currently using a Nomad 2, just because I was curious about it. So far so good and it has been going for around 7 months. I fill just the guns with it and do not try to push it and fill a bottle. It cost 700 dollars, and I expect to see them around 400 in a year or two as competition wakes up.

In my garage sits a 6000 psi nitrogen bottle. Any and all welding supply shops have them and you can rent the bottle for X dollars per year and if and when the pressure falls below what you need you call them and they deliver a new one and pick up the old one. You have to buy a special regulator and gauge that installs on the bottle with the proper threads etc, etc. I shoot a lot and one full nitrogen bottle lasts me six months or so. You get lots and lots of fills out of 6000 psi. You can search the internet and find out all the details and sources for the gauge, regulator and fill system. I forget where I bought that, there are several sources. 

Cost? 

Yearly rent fee for bottle is 160 dollars. Your cost will vary area to area, I live in South Carolina so much cheaper than say New York. 

A bottle trade and or fill is 90 bucks. 

A couple heavy J hooks to screw into garage wall studs and chain to safely secure bottle 15 bucks. 

If you are or become an avid air gunner this is the solution. This is an forgotten solution I very rarely see even mentioned on any air gun forum or information site. When it is will be the typical statements of NITROGEN......will tear up your air rifle......yep.....well duh....the air we breath is almost all nitrogen. It is actually better for an air gun as there is ZERO moisture and seals and o rings last much longer. 

I am 67 and I am not pumping any rifle unless it is an emergency.

I am not going to pay 3000 dollars for a compressor that may or may not last a year without some kind of repair and all of them break, it is what compressors do. I have had several of them and they always break and it is expensive for repairs. 

I like the little Nomad, however it is expensive, but I can take it with me in the vehicle and charge an air rifle in the field if I want as you can use your vehicle battery to power it. However you will have to spend an additional 30 bucks for wire appropriate for the amp draw and some connectors and shrink wrap tubing as the wire harness is so short you will have to have your rifle in the engine compartment unless you do extend the wires. I drive an SUV and simply set the Nomad and rifle in the rear and that works well with the extended wire harness. 

Check out the nitrogen solution. If you do get serious about air guns, this is the best solution of them all. 



Cheers

Kit
Click to expand...


Wow, this nitrogen tank idea is very interesting. I might look into this too. Thank you for posting this.
 
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I am an admitted newbie to the air game. Well,guns in general though I own them. The previous post about nitrogen is eye opening. Why isn’t this considered a viable option to compressors? Been doing a lot of reading and even bought a compressor myself. May not have if this post had been available. Is it true that nitrogen may be a better option? And can you refill say a cf bottle from said nitro tank?
Click to expand...

Of course but you have.to get one of those valves for a 6k bottle for $500 (must be regulated because of the pressure), rent the tank for $20-40 per month, have a fill for $110-210, have it delivered for $40-60, and refills around $90. Great option.


 
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Trying to get into PCP for cheap is mentally exhausting. LOL.

I gave up on my research last night and just ordered a slew of different high quality pellets for my current multipump rifle. If that doesn't help the accuracy, I'll revisit the costs of getting into PCP. 

Funny how I can be ok with the cost of admission but still have a hard time justifying the expense (for instance, if my wife asks).
 
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I guess it's my turn, and I'm a little reluctant in writing this because I know I'm going to get a lot of grief for what I say. Here goes nothing....

2 months ago I wanted to get into air rifles. I've been a powder burner (is that what they call it?) for 40 years. I'm 66. I researched the hell out of air rifles on Youtubes and was convinced that the break barrel Gamo Gen 2 Swarm with silencer was the ticket. Hell, these guys on Youtube were hitting a dime at 100 yards, right? Cost me over $300 and the only good news is, I bought it on Amazon with a great return policy (you can guess where this is going). It even came with a scope - I got the 22 caliber model. My son and I own and shoot everything there is; AR-15 platform, hunting rifles, shotguns, hand guns, etc. He's ex military, I'm just an avid shooter. So you can understand my confusion when we unboxed this thing and couldn't get the accuracy dialed in. So, I did what I always do. Watched more Youtubes! :)

All of a sudden, I noticed a similar thing on almost all the videos. As they shot, there'd be what they call "A Flier'. That's a pellet that's so far off target it's embarrassing. Oops, that's a flier, they'd say. Then, I learned of something called the "Artillery hold". Yep, it seems that because of the Nitro - spring - impact - jerking - and whatever else you want to call it, you can't hold any break barrel firmly. As I understand it, it has to kind of 'float' in your hands, free to move around as you pull the trigger. I thought to myself, "what kind of crap is this?" I have to 'learn' how to shoot a rifle again after all these years? That's BS. (Sorry).

By the way, KitCarson16 is absolutely spot on when he described this issue.

Oh, one more thing. The other instruction you'll get after you buy a break barrel and can't figure out how to get the accuracy is that you have to shoot hundreds of rounds through it before it 'settles down'. And don't forget, the break barrel has to 'Like' the kind of pellet your shooting. 

Bottom line. If you get a break barrel and the accuracy is crap, do the following:

  • Start buying all kinds of different pellets
  • Don't hold the rifle tight, let it 'float' in your hands, and for god's sake, don't let the butt of the gun even touch your shoulder.
  • Continue to shoot it more, keep shooting, keep shooting, no not yet, it's got to break in.
  • At some point, you'll question your own skill and ability and think there's something wrong with you.
  • Almost forgot - watch more Youtubes.
  • Read posts from other members that will tell you they can hit the eye of a crow at a thousand yards (sorry)
  • Read posts that will tell you that you just didn't pay enough and you need to buy the break barrel that 'they' own. :)
  • Return it for a full refund.

I hope that was a humorous as I intended it to be. The best thing you can do is what you're already doing. Ask this forum for opinions because this forum has got me 100% to where I am today. These guys know a whole lot more about air guns than I'll ever know.

So, I'm not going to tell you what you should do, but I'll tell you what I ended up with and I absolutely love it. I think it fits all your criteria too.

I bought the Benjamin Maximus on MidwayUSA for $145 a month ago. This forum told me about the deal. Although that deal is gone now, I see today that Pyramyd Air has it for $229 in stock. I got the 22cal. It is much louder than I expected for backyard shooting so I bought a silencer (moderator?) from TMK's website. Only $50 including shipping. It is made for the Maximus, it slips right over the barrel tip and is secured with a set screw. No need to have threads on the barrel. Honestly, it is so quiet I can't believe it. I also bought the most popular / least expensive hand pump on Amazon I could find for about $60. The Maximus pumps up to 2,000psi and takes no more than 40 pumps to go from low to high which gives you about 25 to 30 shots. It's really easy to pump, I swear it doesn't even take 2 minutes. So for the rifle, pump and silencer, you're just over $300.

Let's talk accuracy. All of a sudden, I guess I know how to shoot after all. The accuracy is fantastic. I'm not going to tell you some crazy example of how far I hit something. I'm just saying, if you've shot 22lr rimfire rifles, or any other rifle with a scope, you'll be very amazed at how similar the accuracy is with this rifle. Not really far shots, but I'd say 30 or 40 yards you'll be hitting what you aim at. And guess what? After the first tin of 500 pellets? For some reason, I haven't had a single 'Flier'. :)

So there you go.

I'll get ready for the arguments for what I said about the break barrel. I know, I know. I don't know what I'm talking about. I don't know how to shoot. I didn't give it enough time. I don't buy the right pellet. I didn't clean the barrel before I shot it. I didn't hold it right.

All I know is I'll never buy another break barrel, PCP is absolutely the way to go - and by the way, cold weather doesn't affect PCP rifles - and funny thing. For everything I didn't know how to do right with the break barrel? I took the Maximus out of the box, put a cheap scope on it, pumped it up, and 5 shots later it was zero'd in and shooting accurate.

One more thing. I like your pick for the Marauder. The only reason I didn't pick that rifle was that it's a 3,000psi rifle, it's pretty expensive compared to what I bought, and I didn't want to get into an air compressor if I didn't have to.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

And don't stop asking questions and sharing your experiences with this forum. They're great guys (and gals?), and have been nothing but helpful for me.
 
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Great post, WN0912! Thank you for describing your experience.

I am still deciding what is "reasonable" to spend on this little hobby. I've almost completely ruled out break barrels / spring piston / gas piston rifles. The only one that I've found that seemed like a decent compromise to me was the Sig ASP20 in .22 cal. It's a bit pricey for what it is, but it gets good reviews and seems quiet enough to shoot in my backyard.

Still, I find myself gravitating heavily towards PCP. So, I will either plunk down the cash to get something PCP (and I'll have to decide if I want to buy a compressor or deal with a hand pump) or I'll stick with my cheap 50 dollar Winchester 1977 multipump for awhile. I'm hoping the better pellets I have coming will tighten up the groups a bit.

I'll check out your recommendation of the Benjamin Maximus with that suppressor. I'm also considering the Diana Stormrider. It has a small air tank (100 cc) and runs at 2900 psi, so it should be easy to pump up with a hand pump. But I know nothing about the quality of the rifle or the company. I also don't know how loud it is. I'm going to research that next.

Until I see something better for the price, I'm still leaning towards the Marauder, but I'm considering anything that gets suggested in this thread. I am trying to be patient and make wise choices so I don't have a bad experience right out the gate.

There's a pretty nice Marauder in the classifieds right now for 350.00 and that has been very tempting, but I'm hesitant to buy used until I'm more familiar with this hobby.
 
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New to the site, pretty new to airguns.

I have a Winchester 1977XS multi pump air rifle I got awhile back to plink with the kids. At 50ft (yes FEET, lol), it's putting 5 shot groups of about 1.5 inches. I realize this is a 50 dollar rifle and the Crosman Premier pellets I'm using aren't match grade, but I want better accuracy than this.

Click to expand...

Your Winnie is capable of much better accuracy than that.. I've been getting 1 inch groups at 25 yards w/ mine using Daisy 7.87 wadcutters / flatheads. I also get good results w/ Beeman 8.3 superdomes and Crosman 10.5's. I did the credit card trigger mod w/ mine and I took the flat spring out of it. Those mods will give the Daisy 880 a 2# trigger pull. The 1977 has a much heavier hammer spring than the 880 though and the mods lightened the trigger pull from its original 7#'s to around 5#'s.

It's still pretty stiff. Has a 2 stage now though. It's accurate none-the-less.

I've been nailing hosps out of my bird feeder w/ it.

Which reminds me ... I need to oil the trigger again.
 
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