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Heavier slugs or lighter slugs?

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WesleySniper

WesleySniper

Member
Jul 26, 2020
19
2
Lisboa
Hello,



I have been shooting 29 grain .25 slugs (NSA) out of my impact.

Now i got some 36 grain and they shoot good as well but they bring 50 slugs less per package and use much more air to get the same fps as the 29 grain. So less for the same money and way less shot count.

The bc is a little higher but not that much and i don't think the weight difference will be that much more effective in wind resistance. So outside of maybe for hunting which i don't do, i don't see more advantage to shooting 36 grains over 29 grains slugs.



What is your opinion and experience?
 
Indeed good for hunting if you're hunting, and i also have a compressor but 4 mags per fill is a sweet deal and you get that with 29 grain.

And also bucks the wind better but you will be shooting at lower speeds so for long range it does use more of the elevation and it limits your max distance because the trajectory is more loopy.

You adjust less on windage but more on elevation.
 
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First your weights are exactly what I have found to be the absolute best for most common .22 & .25 airgun twists. 
I don't know what your FX liner is but my 1:17.7 (alleged) twist can send 28-29's up to 1075. I use the 32's .22 and be it 900 or 1040, they stabilize and work. 
I'm not Hunting. I don't care about shot count other than obvious overkill tune.

I shoot tethered with a step down in-line reg from Alkin (& have a big Alkin W31 3.5-4.7cfm compressor. Air is not a concern now. 
Since I get the best results at 2500-2800psi I simply fill my SCBA to 3500psi instead of 4500psi. Easier on my regs high side, 16 year old SCBA, & the compressor gets run more often at lower load. All better. 


Now to answer your questions I will say I have sent 32 grain RBT slugs from a .25 EDgun Supermagnum @ 940fps 316 yards. I've sent 32-55 grain .25's from a no choke .25 Condor & a Sumatra .25 

The Sumatra sent 46 grain RBT slugs at 940. Just by chance. The Condor & EDgun Supermagnum could have been turned way up.

If you are just target shooting like me for groups at long range in winds or not. Why bother going heavier. Send the 28's as fast as possible for less flight time.
But FIRST, figure out what slug is optimal in your liner. 
Optimal being you will need to know exact twist rate. Exact length of slug in thousandths. Exact OD is .250". Speed & atmospheric conditions.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

And I don't own any new FX guns. Just 2 classic ones. 
I wouldn't want a FX platform to shoot heavy slugs, due for need of harmonic tuning.

For you a 28-32 grain .25 should get you a high stabilization factor. SF is often overlooked by BC. 


With slugs, high BC means NOTHING if they're not stabilizing at the close range a air gunner might desire to use them at. It's like Gamo saying our gun shoots 1650fps with 5.5 grain Alloy pellets. Whoopty Doo! It won't hit a barn at 100 yards. 
Please let me know what your twist rate is, & on what platform you have.

I can tell you that NSA slugs are very good. But I would need to know the length of your slugs. I prefer NSA for PRICE, and shortest heavyweights.

I prefer Griffin 2 stroke extra long slugs for some applications. 

Either way I will tell ya I have kept some of my .25's for closer range hard hitting and use my hot .22 slugs for longer range targets.

The Uber Custom special .257 is on its way but I'm done with it all after her. She's going to get tested but destined to be a Safe Queen of extreme rarity. 
She ain't no HP Raptor. SHE makes a HP Raptor look like a regular pellet shooter. But again, I don't care about air consumption or that I must be tethered unless I am desiring 3-4 shots.
 
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The heavier the better for longer range shooting.
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Yes, if his platform can send them. If it can't then he accepts a limit on distance, or goes lighter.

I'm just pointing out it's not as easy as YouTube videos seem to show. 
I agree on your comment but if his platform is maxed out at a certain weight, or he would need a faster twist liner, I'm trying to show him why. 
 
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Even hunting I have gone with a little lighter slug for a flatter trajectory. In 22 I have used the 17.3 gr nsa at 920 fps and still moa at a 100 then moved to the 20.1 gr nsa and have gotten a flat trajectory and good range. In 25 I have gone with 26.8 nsa and push them around the 940 fps and they are moa as well with a good flat trajectory. Unless I am hunting bigger game in the 40 lb range I like the lighter ammo due to a flatter trajectory. I haven't noticed a huge poi shift lighter versus heavier at a 100 yards. How far are you shooting?
 
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@ JamesD.



Thanks for all that input, i must say i know what is the best slug for my purpose but i decided to shoot some heavier slugs and want to hear others opinion and experience. I understand all the factors that go into it and i totally agree with you on the point that a 29.5 grain slug is just fine for long range target shooting.

The weight is not that much less so the wind is not going to affect it that much more and indeed it gets there faster and for long range you will have more distance to reach or elevation on your scope because of the flatter trajectory from the higher speeds.

You can also reach higher speeds without pushing the gun to the max and from my experience slugs shoot way better when you're up in the 950's and up. They become a laser, more consistent and accurate.



I do understand that the 36 grains buckles the wind better which helps more in adjusting windage of course, and that it carries more energy which for hunting is better but i am not hunting.



So for me 29,5 grain it is. Flatter trajectory with higher speeds easily achieved by the rifle (at least mine), much more shots per fill and more slugs for the money.

I got better performance with the 29,5 grains than with the 36 grains.



But this is my experience and my preference, every one is different with different tastes and purposes so any opinion and experience is valid as long as you're hitting the target, ah.

And i think the consensus here is that some people like flatter trajectory and higher speeds so they want lighter slugs, and others like the energy retention for hunting and the wind resistance so they want heavier.

Performance wise it's individual from each person's experience.



To answer your question about my platform, i shoot the Impact mk2 in .25 with power plenum, 700mm barrel, superior heavy liner, huma dual tansfer port and waiting for the slug power kit.

So all the power capacity is there. Gr.
 
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Well thank you, and I am glad you're getting great results.

To be clear. I wasn't disagreeing with anyone. In fact, Mountain Ghost has forgotten more than I will probably ever learn. 


I'm just pointing out that AG twist rates aren't optimized for some of the heavy RBT slugs some are trying. They blame the slug. Not the case.

Every high end swaged slug maker is using Corbin Dies unless they are skilled enough, & have the machining/equipment to make their own dies, or cast their own slugs.

The utmost respect to all here. THAT is the ONLY thing that matters in life. Love, & Respect. 
I definitely Respect my AG Brethren, & love some as true Brothers/Father figures. 
Thank you, & I wish you good times shooting, & in all you do. 

James Dingle
 
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I agree to a point. I shoot the heaviest slugs that are the most accurate. Aside from a slightly flatter trajectory with the lighter slugs because you can shoot them faster for a given tune (benefit), slightly better BC for heavier slugs (benefit), if you can’t hit your target you can’t kill your target. Accuracy trumps trajectory and BC every time. I’d much rather shoot an NSA 26.8 grain compared to an NSA 33.5 grain if the lighter slug shoots ten inside an inch at 100 yards and the heavier slug shoots ten inside 1.5 inches. Accuracy first, then the other factors.

My primary slug shooter is an old power tuned .22 Eddy R3 Long. It’ll shoot all the way from NSA 20.2 to the NSA 27.5. But my slug of choice is the lightest one because it’ll put ten shots inside an inch at 110 yards. Three weekends ago I took three shots at ground squirrels at 161, 176, and 176 yards, standing leaning the gun on a boulder. Three kills. I shoot them at 985 FPS. At 176 yards there is still 22 FPE. Triple what it takes to humanely take down small varmints... ;)
 
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The heavier the better for longer range shooting.
Click to expand...

Yes, if his platform can send them. If it can't then he accepts a limit on distance, or goes lighter.

I'm just pointing out it's not as easy as YouTube videos seem to show. 
I agree on your comment but if his platform is maxed out at a certain weight, or he would need a faster twist liner, I'm trying to show him why.
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That isn't accurate and I disagree with the premise, you do not need to send a bullet to the fringes if supersonic speeds to be accurate. If you were trying to plink steel at 250y with an average air rifle, a 60+ grain bullet will generally have significantly less wind drift than say a 30-40gr. The BCs fall apart after 140-150m with a lighter projectile than a heavier projectile of similar design (e.g. the same meplat of NSA slugs or Griffin BTs).

A rainbow elevation trajectory with a heavy projectile is FAR more desirable for long range shooting than an underweighted projectile that drifts much harder at closer distances. The rainbow can be calculated with any decent ballistics program, relatively simple math. The drag will also have less effect the further from *sonic they are.

Wind holds are a hell of a lot more dynamic and difficult than elevation holds. 


 
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@mtnGhost



Good point, it is possible to calculate accurately with a very small error margin for elevation using balistics calculators, but with wind being so unpredictable it is much harder. You choose the lesser of two evils kind of thing..



At the same time you also have to look for as flat trajectory as you can have inside that "heavy" category. A sort of balance.



That said I will try the 33.5 grains at around 950 fps. Heavyesh and still fast.
 
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@mtnGhost



Good point, it is possible to calculate accurately with a very small error margin for elevation using balistics calculators, but with wind being so unpredictable it is much harder. You choose the lesser of two evils kind of thing..



At the same time you also have to look for as flat trajectory as you can have inside that "heavy" category. A sort of balance.



That said I will try the 33.5 grains at around 950 fps. Heavyesh and still fast.
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If you're not hunting and just dialing for elevation, a flat trajectory shouldn't matter much. How far are you trying to shoot?

We rarely get calm winds in the mountains where I practice. I learned quickly that if I wanted to shoot accurately really far out with an airgun, then I would need to use much heavier lead. I also studied my Lab Radar data, and determined that shooting accurately at 200m and beyond with wind 10mph or more requires:

  • .30 - 60+ grain with a 0-10m BC >=0.14
  • .22. - 40+ grain with a 0-10m BC >=0.15

The problems of harmonics and/or recoil also scales with power and ammo weight in all the airguns that I have owned. 

That's just my $0.02.
 
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@ mtnGhost



Precious $0.02 and thanks.

I shoot out to 100 meters in open space with wind. I don't live in the mountains like you so I don't have that space availability that you have, unfortunately.

I am from Portugal but I live in the Netherlands and here is very hard to find open space like 200 or 300 meters to shoot.

I am trying to find a farmer or someone with space that lets me shoot in his property, but it's not easy.



I am not shooting at 200 meters and beyond so i am still fine with something around the 29.5 grains and that is why I went higher in weight and test.

Now i want to try the 33.5 grains and when I have the distances where is not so efficient anymore I will go up in weight again.



Will let you know what's happening. Gr.
 
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@ mtnGhost



Precious $0.02 and thanks.

I shoot out to 100 meters in open space with wind. I don't live in the mountains like you so I don't have that space availability that you have, unfortunately.

I am from Portugal but I live in the Netherlands and here is very hard to find open space like 200 or 300 meters to shoot.

I am trying to find a farmer or someone with space that lets me shoot in his property, but it's not easy.



I am not shooting at 200 meters and beyond so i am still fine with something around the 29.5 grains and that is why I went higher in weight and test.

Now i want to try the 33.5 grains and when I have the distances where is not so efficient anymore I will go up in weight again.



Will let you know what's happening. Gr.
Click to expand...

Ping @julez sometime! He has some permissions to shoot on farms in .nl 😎 
 
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