Hatsan 95 accuracy: .22 vs .25

[azscot]

I have a new Hatsan 95 Vortex QE in .25 cal. I read much about Hatsan break barrel accuracy and expected good accuracy from the .25, in other words, 1/2" groups at 25 yds. I consistently get 3/8" to 1/2" groups with my .177 Beeman R7.

So far, the best I've seen is one 5 shot group of 0.8" Most are in the 1" to 1.5" range. I use the same technique as with the Beeman.

Things I've done so far: Lap the barrel, make sure the rear trigger guard screw is tight (How tight should it be?), put over 200 pellets through it, checked the barrel cocking tension, i.e. how easily barrel moves without spring pressure, front stock screw tension.

I've used JSB King 25 gr Exact, AirArms 25gr Field Diabolo (best accuracy), RWS Super H point 25 gr, H&N Barracuda 27 gr, and some 30+ gr pellets.

I've tried the rifle with and without the QE pieces and found no significant differrence.

The rifle has a new Hawke Vantage 4-12X40 scope on it and I also used a Hawke Airmax 4-12X50 with the same results.

So is this as good as I can expect? Do you think that there is any possibility of getting more accuracy from this one or is it just a lemon?

I bought the rifle to use for up to 50 yd plinking and want a 1.5" center to center group at that distance.

Thanks in advance for any information or help.



Scot

 

[SpiralGroove]

Hey Scot,

It's frustrating, madness to compare the accuracy of a .25 cal. Hatsan 95 to an .177 cal. HW30S < 30 yards.

- The Hatsan is over stressing it's capabilities while the Weihrauch in perfect balance.

- The Hatsan has the worst version of the Quattro trigger vs. a Rekord unit.



I've tuned atleast (15) Hatsan 95's (some of them had absolutely beautiful stocks), but they're badly in need of a detune and trigger makeover.

While I believe Hatsan 95's can be beautiful hunting guns out to say 45 yards, de-tuned + trigger enhancements & very affordable ... .22 caliber.

However, save yourself the madness and get a Weihrauch HW50S, HW95, HW35E, D34.

 

[Raden1942]

That seems like it's shooting how they generally shoot. However I think you can probably enhance the accuracy by doing two things. Run a single patch down the barrel with 1 drp of balistol on it. Then run a single dry patch down it. This will remove excess lead in the barrel and leave the lead in the rifling. I do this around every 200 pellets so your right in that zone. Second is try different holds. The magnum springers are famously difficult to find a good hold. What works for one gun may not work for another. My dads hatsan 130 has to be shot resting softly on my shoulder and barely holding the grip with my thumb and middle finger and then slowly squeeze the trigger. My left hand basically just rests flat on the bottom of the rifle in a particular spot. It's 1 inch in front of the rifles balance point. It took me so long to find that hold but it's much more accurate now. I don't know if you have a spring or gas ram in thier but if you have a spring you might get better accuracy by flattening the spring ends and polishing it with sand paper and then covering it with moly grease to dampen the vibrations. If you have the gas ram you can possibly short stroke it a bit but I can't really explain how to do that because I haven't done it before. I have heard of guys doing that to save wasted air and lower the recoil slightly. Again only heard of it no expert here. I just keep my gas rams stock and deal with it. I do know that my dads 130 has a gas ram that you can release pressure and fill back up with a hand pump. Haven't done that either but it's something that you can look into if your gun has that feature. Good luck. I really think finding the right pellet and finding the right hold can help with some of that accuracy problem. I love magnum springers but they just are not as accurate as a low power springer. 

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

Spiral groove is absolutely correct. Do not compare this or any other barrel breaker to that R-7. That little 7 is about as good as they come. Even when moving up in velocity with a Weihrauch accuracy will diminish. That said I own a 95 in .25. Very accurate. Shoot the same pellet. Remove the 2 trigger screws (3mm) an get new ones that you can cut, round and buff the ends to about 1/16” longer than the stock screws. Now you have an adjustable trigger comparable to a Rekord. I have heard of Hatsan having poor crowns. I have chopped many 95’s down into carbines and recrowned. Accuracy improved. Hatsan’s crowns are rough and crude. Maybe you have a poorer than average one.

 

[azscot]

Thanks for the reply. I had a 95 .25 springer before and the trigger was horrible. Did the longer screw trick and made it usable, but no more accurate. This one has a decent trigger, it could use a longer sear engagement screw but isn't affecting accuracy.

The crown is a possibility.. I'm getting some weird group shapes, half circles and rings. Problem is the shrouded barrel of the QE, I don't know how to get it off to recrown the barrel.

Scot

 

[azscot]

Spiral Groove -

Thanks for the reply. I've lapped the barrel after cleaning all the black gunk out of the barrel, starting with 600 grit lapping compound and ending with J-B compound. I can still see machining marks on the lands and grooves but at least they've been smoothed down.

This trigger is OK compared to a 95 springer that I tried. But detuning is something I hadn't thought of. Since the 95 has the hole for the air fill probe, would this just be a matter of reducing the piston pressure? That would be fine as I'm not hunting and losing some FPS/FPE would be fine.

How do you detune the 95s?

Scot

 

[SteveP-52]

Thanks for the reply. I had a 95 .25 springer before and the trigger was horrible. Did the longer screw trick and made it usable, but no more accurate. This one has a decent trigger, it could use a longer sear engagement screw but isn't affecting accuracy.

The crown is a possibility.. I'm getting some weird group shapes, half circles and rings. Problem is the shrouded barrel of the QE, I don't know how to get it off to recrown the barrel.

Scot

The cap on the end of the barrel unscrews to get inside it. You may need a pair of padded channel locks. Underneath you'll find an o-ring, 2 small plastic "hair curlers" wrapped in felt and 2 metal or plastic spacers. Once those are out, you'll need a 14mm Deep socket, an extension and a 3/8's drive ratchet to take off the nut that holds the shroud on.

Might also check those spacers and the Hair curler gizmos since you might be getting pellets clipping on them.

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

There is more snap on that Vortex than a spring. If you are using the scope stop Hatsan supplied then make sure the screws are degreased and use a dot of blue Loctite. Also make sure the stop is rearward on the screws. Put a tiny piece of blue painters tape just in front of a ring on the scope and on the receiver to watch for rearward scope/ring creep. Degrease all scope mount screws and a dot of blue Loctite.. Same for rear trigger screw and it needs to be very tight. Not the front one.

I have not had the barrel sleeve off any of my QE’s either. I would imagine it’s really pressed on. The muzzle brake/sight is difficult enough to get off. I’m sure the crown could be gotten to without removing the sleeve. I would not attempt it until everything else is tried.

 

[SteveP-52]

How do you detune the 95s?

Scot

Take the stock off and on the left rear side of the receiver, you should see a hole and inside that is a flat head screw. That screw is the bleed valve for the ram. To detune, just let a bit out at a time, shoot 5 or 10 shots to check the fps and keep doing that until you get to the fps/fpe numbers you're wanting. Might well take you a few tries but if you go lower than you want you can always, provided you have the pump and fittings, put a pump at a time back in.

For that shroud nut I mentioned above, it may well be loctited on there. A heat gun on low loosened mine up to take it off. The shroud is a snug fit but mine with a little twisting/turning came right off.

Before I forget...that Quattro trigger. It has an odd pull since it's actually back and up at about a 30 degree angle, but once you get used to it, while it will never, ever compare to something like a Rekord or Diana T06 (yes, I have both) is still not a bad trigger. A friend I've never met on another forum suggested I try it the way he does and it actually, at least for me, works very well. Put your finger on the trigger, then slide it down until the bottom edge of your trigger finger is laying against the inside edge of the trigger guard. When you go to squeeze, use the trigger guard as a guide for your finger and pull. 

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

Thanks Mr. Steve for that great information about the QE sleeve removal. I may now re- crown all 3 of mine. Is there a nylon filler between the barrel and sleeve? Is the barrel “gear cut” so the sleeve or shroud will not turn? Is a press needed for removal? Thanks

 

[SteveP-52]

There's nothing in there, the shroud just slides on. No gear cuts on the barrel like there were on the older moderated versions and those were there to help hold that moderator on. The barrel was actually milled with steps in it and about 7 3/4's inside the shroud when you look in there is the lip that shroud nut presses on when it's in place. The shroud will turn and even more so once you loosen that nut inside which is the only thing holding it. There is no glue or filler in there. Just be very aware Hatsan used their usual cheap pot metal making them those shroud nuts so be careful when removing it. The barrel itself from breech to muzzle only measured 10 5/8's inches, even took a pic of that.

The crown in mine while not bad wasn't that great either and no, the barrel wasn't cleaned yet. No sense in it considering what I was about to do...lol. 

Had to dig a bit to find the file but here's the pics of my .22 QE I took during it all:

 

[azscot]

SteveP-52,



Thanks for the info. Easier than I thought it'd be.

Scot

 

[SteveP-52]

It is fairly easy. Barrel was already off the rifle, heat gun on low and straight into the shroud. Used a screwdriver through the barrel pivot hole for leverage on the far end, ratchet/socket on the nut and while still a bit tight, it came off. There was some kind of thread lock mess on mine, may or may not be on yours. Used Vibra-Tite VC-3 when I put it back together. As mentioned while you have it open, check all those baffle pieces to see if there was any kind of clipping since it's been known to happen. 

Also need to check the side of the shroud on re-install and make sure the QE part faces to the side like it's supposed to. Don't ask how I know...lol.

 

[azscot]

Bear-of-Grayling

Thanks for the advice. I blue Loctited the rear trigger guard spring because, as everyone says, it loosens. I need to check the mount stop.

When you say installed backward do you mean the folded/curled end toward the muzzle or the butt?

Scot

 

[azscot]

Raden 1942

Thanks for the info on the Hatsan air pump probe. That will be useful.

Scot

 

[SteveP-52]

I'm not Bear, but the curled end faces forward. Once on and tight, butt the rear of your scope mount against it, then tighten it down.

 

[azscot]

Stevep-52,

Thanks for the clarification on the scope mount stop.

Scot

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

There is slop on the scope stop to the screws. Put rearward pressure on the stop into the screws when tightening the screws down. Else the scope rings will push it back anyway and until everything settles in your point of impact will change.

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

Thank you Steve for the pics and information. Looking at your crown makes me want to check mine. I know accuracy will improve. Has on all my 95’s. It wouldn’t take much of a burr to impede accuracy.

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

Just look how slick the rifling is in the pic above. Then compare the crown to it. When I get done with a crown it looks like that rifling does. The pellet leaves the barrel rifling completely and unobstructed. Hatsan really does the crown an injustice.