Has anyone glass bedded their action to the stock on a PCP?

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Montana_Airgun

Montana_Airgun

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Oct 4, 2020
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Montana, United States
Hi guys (and gals)!

Has anyone glass bedded their PCP? What kind of experiences have you had?

I finally glass bedded my Hatsan Flash Wood and I have been really happy with it. Don't know if the accuracy has increased that significantly from the glass bedding or if I have just found the right speed for the pellets to be shot at. Have a look at my journey on the glass bedding on the following vide and give your feedback!


Hope you all enjoy the video.
 
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I've used various bedding techniques in cartridge rifles for action and barrel. I've never seen an air rifle design in I which I see any need for it. In most cases, the action inletting provides generous margins, and there is no binding. There is no heavy recoil to cause torque movement of the action. And the barrel is usually well removed from any barrel contact. I'd spend my time elsewhere.
 
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I am a big advocate of a dead fit, no movement or flexing of anything once screws start tightening up. If the stock screw is tightening into wood i usually put a pillar in; why not? It is pretty easy to do and can't hurt if you know what your doing. The products I like are Brownell's Steelbed (it is kind of expensive though), and the original J.B. Weld. I haven't used it myself but a lot of people like Devcon Marinetex because it really looks good. I read all the white papers and Steelbed and J.B. Weld look 'technically' like the best products to me. I am sure that a lot of top tier airguns might not benefit but a whole lot of everything else very well could. It's a hobby, do what makes you happy. It is just one more link in the chain of accuracy and repeatability and something you can cross off of a potential list of problems. Good on you, for bothering, and making a video of it.
 
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ChRiSiS said:
Why? Are you trying to tame the action shifting due to recoil?
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Mainbly because the back of the action was not resting on anything. I wanted the action to be resting comfortably from the length of the whole action. I was also a bit worried to have everything resting on 1 action screw there, so I decided to do this. If there is added benefit to the accuracy all the better :)
 
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I can tell you, I have glass bedded more than my share of PB's and it has never hurt ...and helped 90% of the time. I have wondered the same thing "would it be worth it" on an air rifle. Since I enjoy the process I would give it a go if any of my air rifles had a stock. Like some one else said do what makes you happy. I think if I had a rifle that was questionable I would bed it just for the peace of mind. I polish the barrel on EVERY gun I own...Before I shoot it! In my head they shoot better afterwords so I go ahead and do it..it makes me feel better😆
 
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It is NOT about the recoil guys. It is about if shoddy manufacture has the guns pulling and stressing actions and tubes, creating an unstable and forever changing harmonic. Expensive PCPs usually don't have this, or any other problem, cheaper ones can. The cheaper springers can be terrible too, especially the synthetic stocked ones.
 
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Here's the thing, there are many other variables likes pellets that are going to give more variation than most other things. Look at a cheap plastic stocked Avenger, and they shoot very tight groups. I'm not saying don't do it, but one has to weight the juice vs the squeeze. and have a way to actually measure a before and after to see if it really gave any benefit.

If the guys who shoot bench rest are not doing it, I'm going to say it's not something they think gets a big return on that Invesment. And Recoil IS what causes the pulling and stress. The reverse recoil on a stout springer is a good example.

At the end of the day, there is no right or wrong.
 
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PumaCarl said:
It is NOT about the recoil guys. It is about if shoddy manufacture has the guns pulling and stressing actions and tubes, creating an unstable and forever changing harmonic. Expensive PCPs usually don't have this, or any other problem, cheaper ones can. The cheaper springers can be terrible too, especially the synthetic stocked ones.
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Yeah definately the cheaper end stuff has issues with tolerances. If you get your action all good and have a reputable barrel and regulator on it: I saw the next step to be the glass bedding. It helped with my results at least. How much percentage wise, it is still to be determined on the 100 yard range.

In my opinion harmonics do count. I was more worried on the possible (micro) movement on the action because the back of the action was not supported.
 
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PumaCarl said:
I hear what you are saying Harv24, but the guys that are shooting benchrest have superior equipment to start with. Everything, absolutely everything, adds up when it comes to accuracy. If you want to fix a problem, and not pass it on, you will eventually have to deal with all of them.
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Oh, trust me, I've spent years, time and money chasing accuracy. But at some point, you reach a point of diminishing returns.
- triggers (single vs 2 stage, weight of pull curved vs. straight blade)
- barrels (both break-in and polishing & twist/length, etc.)
- pellets (sizing, weighing, different BC's and grain, etc.
- Wood vs. Plastic stocks. (Length of pull, grip angle heel and toe sizing)
- Optics
- Moderator effects
- Regulators
- transfer port size
- Hammer spring (power and Length adjustment)

And then there's the Enviromental aspects. temp/RH/Altitude/Baro Pressure/ Wind
And the human element of breathing and sight alignment and trigger control and natural point of aim.

I think bedding a low-end air rifle would be low on my list.
 
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Harv24 said:
Oh, trust me, I've spent years, time and money chasing accuracy. But at some point, you reach a point of diminishing returns.
- triggers (single vs 2 stage, weight of pull curved vs. straight blade)
- barrels (both break-in and polishing & twist/length, etc.)
- pellets (sizing, weighing, different BC's and grain, etc.
- Wood vs. Plastic stocks. (Length of pull, grip angle heel and toe sizing)
- Optics
- Moderator effects
- Regulators
- transfer port size
- Hammer spring (power and Length adjustment)

And then there's the Enviromental aspects. temp/RH/Altitude/Baro Pressure/ Wind
And the human element of breathing and sight alignment and trigger control and natural point of aim.

I think bedding a low-end air rifle would be low on my list.
Click to expand...

I do think that bedding the JTS Airacuda MAX would be worthwhile though.

With the four segments making up the lower portion of the gun, bedding the whole action give it much greater stability and with the ring around the rosey POI shift it has, I think stabilizing the whole stock bed would really help.
 
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Firewalker said:
I do think that bedding the JTS Airacuda MAX would be worthwhile though.

With the four segments making up the lower portion of the gun, bedding the whole action give it much greater stability and with the ring around the rosey POI shift it has, I think stabilizing the whole stock bed would really help.
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You should do it, then post up groups before and after.
 
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Harv24 said:
Oh, trust me, I've spent years, time and money chasing accuracy. But at some point, you reach a point of diminishing returns.
- triggers (single vs 2 stage, weight of pull curved vs. straight blade)
- barrels (both break-in and polishing & twist/length, etc.)
- pellets (sizing, weighing, different BC's and grain, etc.
- Wood vs. Plastic stocks. (Length of pull, grip angle heel and toe sizing)
- Optics
- Moderator effects
- Regulators
- transfer port size
- Hammer spring (power and Length adjustment)

And then there's the Enviromental aspects. temp/RH/Altitude/Baro Pressure/ Wind
And the human element of breathing and sight alignment and trigger control and natural point of aim.

I think bedding a low-end air rifle would be low on my list.
Click to expand...
Oh, I understand all of that and have been there, but on a 'project' gun (like this was for the OP) I will typically go through the whole list; nothing is to low, it's a hobby afterall, and I enjoy doing it. I think we all do or we wouldn't bother being a member of this website. I wouldn't discourage anyone from ruthlessly trying everything. It's very rewarding. Once experience guides you to develop a list of things to do, or try, to make a gun shoot better, It doesn't matter where any 'one' process sits on that list, if you don't do it all, you cheated yourself from possible success. The point of diminishing returns only begins after you tried everything once.
 
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Here's some things I've learned about bedding but mostly from research I've done over the years.

Wood stocks can warp slightly as time goes by and in different directions depending on the grain and type of wood.
The type of finish can help preserve and seal the wood. Some types are better than others for this purpose.
The newer the wood the more it will tend to change shape as it dries, cures, settles.
The more figure in the stock the worse the warping can become and different types of wood behave in this regard according to how tight and uniform the grain is and the hardness of the wood.
This warping, crooking, cupping, twisting, bowing and kinking, can be very slight or manifest to a larger degree.
This is why we don't see many whole wood stocks on the best modern centerfire "target oriented" rifles.
Bedding the action to the stock with epoxy based bedding compound seals the inside of the wood stock against moisture better than the stocks standard a typical laquer and linseed oil based finish does. Automotive urethane based paints seal nearly as well as epoxy.

We see more laminate wood stocks in the target world. These are a more stable platform to put an action in because these are similar to plywood in that the wood is glued together.
The most stable platforms for actions are aluminum chassis systems, and composite stocks. The latter which are often pillar and glass bedded to the action.
Some BR shooters even actually glue in their actions to their composite stocks semi permanently.

A recent experience. Before reading the below please understand that previously I had glass bedded my rifle shortly after I got my stock and it has aluminum action screw inserts within the stock but it was just a skim bed I did;
I discovered that this expensive walnut stock I have warped a tiny bit later on after owning it for about a year. I found this out because the action screws acted like they wouldn't tighten down normally by coming to a hard stop. The best way to describe what I mean is hard to explain but they wouldn't come to a stop without applying an excessive amount of torque and it felt as if I was tightening down against a spring.
By accident, because I forgot to fully tighten my actions screws(long story), and with my gun on a one piece rest that was perfectly steady, my scopes crosshair being on a small aiming point at 50Y on a BR card, and the action screws being tightened tightened snugly with a little torque.
Right then I was reminded by a friend that the screws weren't fully tightened so I tightened them down with normal torque and there to my dismay - the crosshair was more than a foot low while still in the rest with everything else besides tightening the action screws being unchanged from a minute before, EEEK!!!
Obviously things weren't right. I could see being a few inches off but over a foot, that's crazy!

The previous year there were also other indicators something was wrong with my rifle system, like odd POI shifts, which weren't happening when I first got my rifle 1.5 years before.

The bedding has since been redone and the actions screws tighten down as they should again.
There was some binding against the aluminum insert by one of the action screws also which was corrected.
And I made a mistake by bedding the rear part of the action which should have been free floated like the barrel is and that has been corrected as well.
Testing will take a while because of cold weather and a windy springtime at my locale.

Do I wish I had gone with an aluminum chassis system instead??, yes I do.

Anyway, I will avoid using wood stocks for target rifles from now on.
 
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Harv24 said:
I too have glass bedded PB's. But I would tender a guess it is not needed on the low recoiling .177 thru 25 cal. 30 and Up I don't know as I've never shot them.
As the worst case, it's not going to hurt them.
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The same could be said about 22LR applications and the position there is that it’s even more important.

Reason being that bedding improves the consistency of the harmonics, and the longer the projectile takes to leave the barrel, the more that matters.
 
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