Hammer Bounce Solutions

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1_OF_1

Member
Apr 23, 2020
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Wyoming
Hello

I have a stock Benjamin Marauder .25 cal. I have read about trigger bounce solutions, however there seems to be many solutions of which confuse me. There is the o-ring modification, an ssg, a tss, an hdd, free floating trigger, etc. Some seem more modern solutions than others, but I am unsure if that means better? Others seem to be unavailable now, such as WAR and Hill products.

My goal is to make the gun quieter and more efficient with air usage.

What are the current recommendations to resolve hammer bounce and what product is recommended for this in 2020? I also wonder about who to buy from? I was considering JSAR’s tss, but unsure of their customer feedback.

Thank you for the guidance.


 
SSG far and away the best solution !!! I use these devices on ALL my PCP's from low power target guns to high power slug shooters.



These are home made SSG devices
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A long screw sits on a shoulder inside the HST screw, it has a retention hat on opposing end .. spring in the middle under tension. you adjust rension / preload on spring for the power wanted and when screwing in the SSG it stops just shy of contacting hammer while uncocked. When cocking the spring is put into compression and when shot throws the hammer at valve with the springs expansion stopped just before poppet is struck essentially free flight striking the poppet.
 
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1 of 1:

Yes, there are very ways to achieve the anti-bouncing, some more complicated than others...

It is not an anti-bouncing solution per-se but a kind of "Minimizing Bouncing Procedure" with what you have (without mods): Adjust your hammer strike tension to the MINIMUM possible for the velocity that you want, this is the easiest simplest way to achieve efficiency and to some extent quiet the gun, while not necessarily preventing bouncing, you will be optimizing dwell for efficiency; it may not be the best for accuracy so check accuracy before and after so you can reverse if not happy...You can achieve the same results modifying hammer weight/hammer spring/valve spring tensions and other ways but it is more tedious, costly (need to buy/make parts) and time consuming...I believe you will be happy doing what I suggest.

Give it a little time in this thread, these is much ingenuity around this forum and maybe some good old guru comes out with a simple very effective procedure.

Best regards,

AZ


 
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I took a different approach. I use a short stiff spring on my rainstorm.30. Then embedded a magnet in the stock to slow/stop the rebound. I’m running a 3/16 gap free flight. At this point I’m getting 1.58 efficiency at 94 ft lbs. I have yet to radius the valve port nor turn down the probe. I used a short heavy dual wound spring on my armada with an mds hammer and a stif spring in the valve. Achieved 1.7 and 1.9 efficiency hit and cold fill respectively.

im putting a magnet in an mds hammer and one in the face of the valve, this should give me 0 bounce.
 
Upvote 0
SSG far and away the best solution !!! I use these devices on ALL my PCP's from low power target guns to high power slug shooters.



These are home made SSG devices 

A long screw sits on a shoulder inside the HST screw, it has a retention hat on opposing end .. spring in the middle under tension. you adjust rension / preload on spring for the power wanted and when screwing in the SSG it stops just shy of contacting hammer while uncocked. When cocking the spring is put into compression and when shot throws the hammer at valve with the springs expansion stopped just before poppet is struck essentially free flight striking the poppet.
Click to expand...

Motorhead:

I've tested some that have a much weaker spring (vs. hammer spring) in front of the weight that goes inside a hammer...In this system the weaker spring is compressed at then time the hammer strikes the valve, upon expansion it pushes the hammer backwards (after striking the valve); this system works very well...But I've never seen these SSG before...

I'm curious, how consistent is the velocity (spread) after this SSG mod? Did you notice any decrease in velocity consistency? 

Best regards,

AZ 
 
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If your local hardware store has a ton of springs, the short stiff spring is the easiest way to go. No fabrication but the gun will be harder to cock. Springs are cheap. Try a #10 like Yo said. At least someone told you one that works. I usually come home with a bag full of them. I personally build SSG's for my guns but when a buddy drops a gun off to be tuned, it gets a Short Stiff Spring.
 
Upvote 0
SSG far and away the best solution !!! I use these devices on ALL my PCP's from low power target guns to high power slug shooters.



These are home made SSG devices 

A long screw sits on a shoulder inside the HST screw, it has a retention hat on opposing end .. spring in the middle under tension. you adjust rension / preload on spring for the power wanted and when screwing in the SSG it stops just shy of contacting hammer while uncocked. When cocking the spring is put into compression and when shot throws the hammer at valve with the springs expansion stopped just before poppet is struck essentially free flight striking the poppet.
Click to expand...

Motorhead:

I've tested some that have a much weaker spring (vs. hammer spring) in front of the weight that goes inside a hammer...In this system the weaker spring is compressed at then time the hammer strikes the valve, upon expansion it pushes the hammer backwards (after striking the valve); this system works very well...But I've never seen these SSG before...

I'm curious, how consistent is the velocity (spread) after this SSG mod? Did you notice any decrease in velocity consistency? 

Best regards,

AZ
Click to expand...


AZ,

The SSG device when spring rate used matches hammer weight requirements for the poppets opening resistance etc is in the ballpark ... simply outstanding ES values !!!

It somewhat is shocking that the SSG devise has not found its way into mainstream manufacturing .. it works that well !!
 
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AZ,

Another point for you as a long time AG tuner about SSG devises.



Because we are compressing the spring within the cartridge we have made the initial motion of compressing said spring much stiffer than a slack relaxed spring.

The energy of the spring driving the hammer towards poppet remains at a higher more consistent spring rate when the expansion is stopped. So the acceleration force exerted upon the hammer has been higher threw out the hammers stroke distance. The resulting FREE FLIGHT is far more consistent in energy relitive to a spring that is coming to full expansion & softening up.

Upon the poppet opening and in return sending the hammer back against the spring, the PRELOADED SSG in most instances simply cannot be compressed to create any bounce.

I even came up with an internal design to work within Theoben / Raw oem hammers that works far better than free flight or the OEM kinetic damper.



Great read where deep in the thread the think tank and sharing of applicable designs only leaves ones imagination and fabrication skills to go nuts and experiment.



Scott S

Motorheads AG Tuning Services
 
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Airguns of Arizona still sells the Hammer Debounce Device for $35 and it is a very easy install on Gen2 Marauders. Click on the selection to get the right one for old or new Gen Marauders or call to make sure you get the right one. It allows the hammer to glide forward easily but tips to create drag as the hammer travels backwards, robbing the energy of the bounce.

.

https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/parts/benjamin-marauder-rifle-custom-hdd/

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1587813936_10886857515ea41e301426b2.35342289.jpg

 
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Scott (Motorhead):

Thank you so much for the insights, it sounds that you are after something simple, innovative, and effective...

I would like to test this system as it is produced vs. copying the design and making one, where could a buy one of these cartridges? Maybe for a RAW given its simplicity and consistency or an Impact MKII Power plenum or ???

Best regards,

AZ


 
Upvote 0
Scott (Motorhead):

Thank you so much for the insights, it sounds that you are after something simple, innovative, and effective...

I would like to test this system as it is produced vs. copying the design and making one, where could a buy one of these cartridges? Maybe for a RAW given its simplicity and consistency or an Impact MKII Power plenum or ???

Best regards,

AZ

Click to expand...


AZ,

Too date all the variants of adapting SSG's to existing platforms have been home brew solutions. the Theoben / RAW i did share a few years ago on RAPID7 site where pictures were posted. there is nothing private about the design and will take a look threw my hordes of photos and see if i can find the specific pictures of that one. No luck being a few computers ago.





here the configuration http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo221/rsterne/Parts%20for%20Sale/SSG%20Loose%20Guide%20Stationary_zpszp4xodm4.jpg

Post #666 is the best i can provide you ... but it is very informative however https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=102095.msg981332#msg981332




 
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