Guns with free floating barrels.

[elh0102]

Most rifles with shrouded barrels are quiet enough for woods hunting without a suppressor. Since I shoot some in my backyard, on a small lot with close neighbors, the suppressor is needed and works great. Without it, it is still quieter than my rimfire rifles, and that removes the leverage of that extra 6 or 7 inches hanging off the shroud. Certainly the shroud could be hit hard enough to change POI, but I think it would take more than the kind of mild ding usually incurred while moving about the woods. While it's nice to have the absolute stealth the suppressor offers, if it is not needed in a specific hunting situation, it might be prudent to go without it. 

 

[Springrrrr]

I made some mods to my Gauntlet. The shroud has a plastic "moderator" and an air stripper resides at the end of the barrel and a screw on cap on the shroud to hold these items in place. The air stripper has an "O" ring on it that appears to be there to press against the inner portion of the shroud as an assist to keep the barrel stable. The ring is too small to do much good so I replaced it with a larger one.

There is a spring between the air stripper at the end of the barrel and the moderator. It is a weak spring and I assume it is there as another aid to keep the barrel tensioned. The shroud screws into the receiver, but there is a lot of distance between that securing point and the end of the shroud and that leverage acts against accuracy.

To add further tension on the barrel, I put a stiffer spring in series with the factory installed spring. The added spring and larger "O" ring locks the barrel to the shroud. I am not concerned that the pencil thin barrel is no longer floating and the tight fit cancels out barrel harmonics.

I also added two metal supports secured at each side of the receiver and screwed into the shroud, to help keep the shroud secure at its base.

Now the shroud is solid to the receiver and the barrel is fit tight in the shroud. The results no longer allow a POI shift with a reasonable bump.

.

 

[bandg]

I made some mods to my Gauntlet. The shroud has a plastic "moderator" and an air stripper resides at the end of the barrel and a screw on cap on the shroud to hold these items in place. The air stripper has an "O" ring on it that appears to be there to press against the inner portion of the shroud as an assist to keep the barrel stable. The ring is too small to do much good so I replaced it with a larger one.

There is a spring between the air stripper at the end of the barrel and the moderator. It is a weak spring and I assume it is there as another aid to keep the barrel tensioned. The shroud screws into the receiver, but there is a lot of distance between that securing point and the end of the shroud and that leverage acts against accuracy.

To add further tension on the barrel, I put a stiffer spring in series with the factory installed spring. The added spring and larger "O" ring locks the barrel to the shroud. I am not concerned that the pencil thin barrel is no longer floating and the tight fit cancels out barrel harmonics.

I also added two metal supports secured at each side of the receiver and screwed into the shroud, to help keep the shroud secure at its base.

Now the shroud is solid to the receiver and the barrel is fit tight in the shroud. The results no longer allow a POI shift with a reasonable bump.

.

Did you notice any change in group size from this process?

 

[Springrrrr]

Did you notice any change in group size from this process?

Absolutely got smaller because even the slight vibration the gun exhibited before the mods seemed to have an effect, slight but still.

On any given day, after the trigger work and the internal polishing of the barrel with JB Bore compound (not mentioned in the previous post) the Gauntlet gives my Daystate Wolverine a run for the money. The Wolverine is generally more consistent, but the Gauntlet does make a good showing as in a ragged hole at 40 yards.

 

[bandg]

Not the first time I've seen such noted. Useful information. Thanks. 

 

[fishinwrench]

Good stuff posted. I didn't figure that it caused a problem very often because I never hear anyone bitch about it. But I kind of got the impression that MOST airgun guys aren't "hunting" the same way that I do (climbing fences, crawling around in log jams, ect.). I'm not necessarily rough on my guns, but they are far from pampered.

I guess it's just the appearance of some extra support along the barrel, makes me feel more confident in it's ruggedness.

 

[Lewis]

With all the interest in ultimate accuracy I am surprised no manufacturer is making an overbuilt BR gun like 6mm competition powder guns. Obviously not to the same extent but something with a bull barrel similar to a 10-22 target barrel. This would have a great muting effect on harmonics. The closest I have seen is the USFT which could be ordered with a pretty heavy barrel at one time.

On the subject of barrels I wish a manufacturer would place the barrel mounting mechanism on the side instead of the top in order to remove the barrel for cleaning without having to remove the scope. 

 

[LDP]

Good stuff posted. I didn't figure that it caused a problem very often because I never hear anyone bitch about it. But I kind of got the impression that MOST airgun guys aren't "hunting" the same way that I do (climbing fences, crawling around in log jams, ect.). I'm not necessarily rough on my guns, but they are far from pampered.

I guess it's just the appearance of some extra support along the barrel, makes me feel more confident in it's ruggedness.

I dont think theres allot of guys "hunting" with their air rifles the way you and I do. I bought my air rifles even my Daystate wolverine to use in the woods not from my house windows so they go out in the woods when I am camping or just out hunting for the day. I take care of my guns as well but eventually you will bump them into something when you are in elk country so to speak. I have never had an issue with my non banded rifles under this type of use. I understand how you feel about the extra support. Having a barrel band isnt going to make an otherwise well built airgun less accurate so if you like the barrel bands theres nothing wrong with it. Just make sure you are taking those airguns out and hunting with them cause they are built to be used at least thats how I feel about it.

 

[HeyU]

Really good topic.When I'm looking thru the wishlists of air-rifles I look to see if there is a barrel band support. I watched a review by a fella,retired gentleman. " Kenny's Airgun Reviews" ?I think. Anyways,he did a review of the Diana Stormrider.This rifle's barrel is just hanging out there.He had better results after installing a barrel support which is offered as an accessery FOR THE RIFLE,hmmm. I was watching 1 of Steve's vlogs, as he's giving details I notice he would sometimes rest his hand or arm on top of the rifle and I would see the shrouded ,unsupported barrel flex under his weight. May be just my angziety,"lol that don't look right,have to look that word up" but I'd prefer some support out there. LDP ,,thankyou,you have eased some of my "that word"lol, some.

 

[scubajeeper]

This is the reason I take one of my bullpups when it head to the woods. The way a pup is made, it's practically impossible to have a poi shift from bumping it.

 

[Eelco]

This is a big reason the SPA M30 appeals to me. I hate the look of a floating barrel from an engineering POV as well. But I appreciate that strapping it to a variable-pressure cylinder isnt ideal either.

But putting the barrel inside said cylinder just makes plain sense. The M30 barrel is free-floating inside the tube (rests on o-rings at the muzzle) so that pressure variation do not cause a change in barrel tension; and it being dead center inside the tube, there wont be any inclination to bend either.

I bet the M30 is the only air rifle you could use as a car-jack without it losing its zero. It isnt the most premium rifle, but I hope we will see more rifles like it. I dont see how it makes anything worse; you dont need more or more complex parts, just slightly different ones, and the advantages seem quite compelling.

 

[HeyU]

Eelco,,the M30 is another on my wish list,,very near the top cause I might be able to afford that 1.

 

[profsrgary]

As a an experienced powder burner I am familiar with both schools of thought. Many guys will put a pressure pad between the stock and barrel to reduce group sizes. While it usually will reduce group sized IMO it defeats the purpose of the free floated barrel. I looked at a lot of rifles in the entry level group and chose the Marauder as one of the things I liked was the free floated barrel which could not be moved more than a mm in any direction which isn't enough to cause a problem because it returns to original placement. I did not choose the storm rider because the guys were adding the barrel band to achieve accuracy. As a hunter, first shot accuracy is very important and I think the floated barrel helps accomplish this. BUT. this from a newbie to air guns.

 

[Dairyboy]

This is why the last 2 guns I've bought were my WARP and now my Edgun R5M. Both tensioned barrels and both basically impossible to cause poi shift. Believe me I tried On my WARP and was always dead on. My Edgun the barrel is completely encased and can't even touch it without tearing stuff down. Hell you can run the gun over and still no poi change lol. That's why I bought it.

 

[Hubertus]

i bought a Anschutz 9015 Club (cheapest stock option because its always the same action)

some say that this is one of the best target rifle up to 12ftp and in 0.177

out of the box every shot was hole in hole at 10m. i expected that because its a high priced 10m target rifle.

went to my 25m range and it was.. bad. 1" groups ? holy cow!

i found some interesseting topics about this laminated stock version at shooting the breeze forum and i did:

- removed the plastic insert in the barrel band to protect the barrel surface. after that you could see that the barrel was not perfect lined up in the barrel band. i had to bend the barrel to insert the plastic inlet again!!

i removed the whole barrel band and this "cheap" rifle begun to shoot way better at 25m but finally i had to do a better bedding because how the action was held into the stock was also terrible. now its shooting hole in hole at 25m with jsb heavys with just 5,5ftp ! ! !

i think anschutz is aware of these issues because the field target version does not use a barrel band and i guess they use a better way to hold the action into the stock

after this experience i will always will remove the barrel band on a new rifle, if im not happy with the group sizes. at least to give it a try!!

 

[Xbowsniper]

Nation

I'm an avid Field Target competition competitor, and for repeated accuracy out of my Marauder, I removed the shroud, which is protected from large movements from the use of a barrel band. The barrel band does not touch the shroud, it is there to prevent any bumps or jolts that might put it off.

That being said, I had an issue with the gun shooting in different places due to temperature variations. I proved this at a match, when I rezeroed the gun from the last time I shot it. It was dead on after I zeroed it. I then took the shroud off, and my zero shifted 2 inches low, and 2 inches left at 30 yards. The shroud was placing torque on the barrel, not letting it where it wanted to be. After this, I NEVER used a shroud on the Marauder again. In a hunting situation, this would not be desirable, due to the lack of barrel support. I have since, for competition purposes, done this.....

I removed the shroud completely. Noise is not an issue where I shoot. I want superior accuracy.

I made my own PVC "shroud" so to speak. It's more like a protector shroud, to prevent the barrel from being bumped in any way.......its totally protected.

Works great, never had a problem with it afterwards. For more details, message me, or check out my channel, Field Target Tech for more details on that mod.

Tom Holland 

 

[donwalk]

Good discussion guys. I am a new Marauder shooter, kind of, and I am wondering if there is a source for a barrel band support that does not have an attachment rail. 

Thanks!

i seem to recall seeing an aftermarket barrel band that mounts to the air tube that requires relieving the stock but i cannot remember where...

 

[fishinwrench]

I'm one of these guys that doesn't believe things until I've personally satisfied myself that it's a REAL THING. Therefore I'm not yet convinced that altering the barrel "harmonics" (as long as it is consistent) is detrimental to my ability to punch a hole in a squirrels head.

 

[scottblair]

When free floating barrels started becoming popular around 15-20 years ago, the manufacturer's we're stating that it was to maintain accuacy as the airtube pressure diminished through out the pressure range. They said that the POI can change from full fill, down to low fill pressure, because the tube would expand and contract, and a barrel band would move the barrel accordingly.

I'm surprised no one here has mentioned that. It was a popular selling point for the free floating barrels, back in the early days of PCP's.

I take all my AG's in the woods constantly, and never have had an issue. I have owned dozens of PCP's over the years, and almost all of them don't have barrel bands.

Imo, if a rifle needs a barrel band, it probably does not have it's barrel seated deep enough into the breech block.

Just my 2©

 

[BigTinBoat]

Good stuff posted. I didn't figure that it caused a problem very often because I never hear anyone bitch about it. But I kind of got the impression that MOST airgun guys aren't "hunting" the same way that I do (climbing fences, crawling around in log jams, ect.). I'm not necessarily rough on my guns, but they are far from pampered.

I guess it's just the appearance of some extra support along the barrel, makes me feel more confident in it's ruggedness.

Seems to me that a lot of airgun "hunters" are actually "pesters". To me hunting is much different then "pesting". Hunting is going out into the woods, or fields and looking for animals that are trying to avoid you. You have to find them to shoot them. Some times you have to carry your gun (and equipment) over and thru lots of different stuff. Pesting is sitting in a location, waiting for animals to come to a food source to then shoot them.