Gun Choice Advice, Please! Subtitle: Why can't I shoot straight anymore?!?

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https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/hitting-a-high-or-low-angle-shot/83768

https://www.sierrabullets.com/exterior-ballistics/3-3-effects-of-shooting-uphill-or-downhill/

Here are a couple of articles that might help the OP better understand the issue, as well as clearing up your issues. As I said, it's a physical fact that as you MOVE from horizontal to either inclined or declined shooting, gravity has less effect and you will shoot high (HIGHER THAN YOUR ZERO POINT MIGHT SUGGEST TO YOU). Feel free to note the first line in the Sierra Bullets article. And one might want to read the last sentence in the 4th paragraph closely as well.

I bet most shooters simply taking a shot at a squirrel high in a tree aren't usually using a rangefinder, or calculator, or protractor. And I bet they aren't "shooting straight up or down". Is there a difference in straight up or down? Absolutely. Is there a difference at extreme ranges? Absolutely. BUT ONLY AT THE EXTREMES OF ANGLE OR DISTANCE. I've discussed this exact issue in the past with some who state that there is ABSOLUTELY no difference in shooting uphill or downhill-that there is no difference in any circumstance. But there surely is a difference, at the extreme limits of both distance and angle. But taking a shot at a squirrel at a bit of a higher angle (or almost all other "common" shooting situations) than zeroed for doesn't fit those "at the limit" differences. And a shooter who doesn't anticipate the effect will shoot high. Some things are common sense
 
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I do not have an issue with shots on squirrels in my large backyard trees. I ignore the angle and shoot just as if they were on the ground at the base of the tree - that distance. They are actually further away, of course, but the pellet drop will be the same as if they were at the base of the tree.

But it sounds like the OP has plenty of experience and probably knows that. I only have two PCPs, a Prod and an Avenger. I find the Prod harder to shoot as accurately as I can with the Avenger. I think it is the fact that it is short and light. From the bench, I have to hold the fore stock, even though recoil is almost nonexistant. From shooting sticks, I have to hold the sticks and maybe just lightly touch the fore stock. A firm hold on the fore end throws my shots off. Most of my squirrels have come standing on the back porch with the hand on the fore stock up against a post. I can't shoot targets that way but the squirrels have been dropping just fine.

I would shoot some targets with the gun supported the same as when you are hunting and see what that tells you. I think the Impact wants to be held differently. 


 
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 "They are actually further away, of course, but the pellet drop will be the same as if they were at the base of the tree."

Incorrect. Read the linked articles. If those aren't enough, just search "shooting uphill and downhill" and plenty of accurate information will be found. There might be the ocassional case where one might get lucky and hit a target on an uncorrected incline/decline shot but the physics is as described in the articles.
 
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https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/hitting-a-high-or-low-angle-shot/83768

https://www.sierrabullets.com/exterior-ballistics/3-3-effects-of-shooting-uphill-or-downhill/

Here are a couple of articles that might help the OP better understand the issue, as well as clearing up your issues. As I said, it's a physical fact that as you MOVE from horizontal to either inclined or declined shooting, gravity has less effect and you will shoot high (HIGHER THAN YOUR ZERO POINT MIGHT SUGGEST TO YOU). Feel free to note the first line in the Sierra Bullets article. And one might want to read the last sentence in the 4th paragraph closely as well.

I bet most shooters simply taking a shot at a squirrel high in a tree aren't usually using a rangefinder, or calculator, or protractor. And I bet they aren't "shooting straight up or down". Is there a difference in straight up or down? Absolutely. Is there a difference at extreme ranges? Absolutely. BUT ONLY AT THE EXTREMES OF ANGLE OR DISTANCE. I've discussed this exact issue in the past with some who state that there is ABSOLUTELY no difference in shooting uphill or downhill-that there is no difference in any circumstance. But there surely is a difference, at the extreme limits of both distance and angle. But taking a shot at a squirrel at a bit of a higher angle (or almost all other "common" shooting situations) than zeroed for doesn't fit those "at the limit" differences. And a shooter who doesn't anticipate the effect will shoot high. Some things are common sense
Click to expand...

bandg,

Ahhh...I figger'd out where we went amiss. As suggested, I read the first sentence of the Sierra article wherein it states that when shooting uphill or downhill, the GUN will shoot high. I agree. You stated that it was a physical fact that YOU, interpreted to mean the human firing said gun, will shoot high. Not true, if you correct for it. I doubt highly, given my presented right triangle shooting scenario, that you would miss high as you are aware of the dynamics involved in uphill/downhill shooting and would correct for it. If you didn't correct, you absolutely would shoot high.

The gun will shoot high, but that doesn't mean the person shooting it has to shoot it high.

What we have here is a failure to communicate. "Gun" versus "You". I promise I won't take things so literal next time if you promise to be more specific. Deal?

The vagaries, trials, and tribulations of internet forum conversations...



Justin


 
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https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/hitting-a-high-or-low-angle-shot/83768

https://www.sierrabullets.com/exterior-ballistics/3-3-effects-of-shooting-uphill-or-downhill/

Here are a couple of articles that might help the OP better understand the issue, as well as clearing up your issues. As I said, it's a physical fact that as you MOVE from horizontal to either inclined or declined shooting, gravity has less effect and you will shoot high (HIGHER THAN YOUR ZERO POINT MIGHT SUGGEST TO YOU). Feel free to note the first line in the Sierra Bullets article. And one might want to read the last sentence in the 4th paragraph closely as well.

I bet most shooters simply taking a shot at a squirrel high in a tree aren't usually using a rangefinder, or calculator, or protractor. And I bet they aren't "shooting straight up or down". Is there a difference in straight up or down? Absolutely. Is there a difference at extreme ranges? Absolutely. BUT ONLY AT THE EXTREMES OF ANGLE OR DISTANCE. I've discussed this exact issue in the past with some who state that there is ABSOLUTELY no difference in shooting uphill or downhill-that there is no difference in any circumstance. But there surely is a difference, at the extreme limits of both distance and angle. But taking a shot at a squirrel at a bit of a higher angle (or almost all other "common" shooting situations) than zeroed for doesn't fit those "at the limit" differences. And a shooter who doesn't anticipate the effect will shoot high. Some things are common sense
Click to expand...

bandg,

Ahhh...I figger'd out where we went amiss. As suggested, I read the first sentence of the Sierra article wherein it states that when shooting uphill or downhill, the GUN will shoot high. I agree. You stated that it was a physical fact that YOU, interpreted to mean the human firing said gun, will shoot high. Not true, if you correct for it. I doubt highly, given my presented right triangle shooting scenario, that you would miss high as you are aware of the dynamics involved in uphill/downhill shooting and would correct for it. If you didn't correct, you absolutely would shoot high.

The gun will shoot high, but that doesn't mean the person shooting it has to shoot it high.

What we have here is a failure to communicate. "Gun" versus "You". I promise I won't take things so literal next time if you promise to be more specific. Deal?

The vagaries, trials, and tribulations of internet forum conversations...



Justin

Click to expand...

Agree on the miscommunication. Semantics. I ASSUMED that there might have been no correction for the angled shot, thus the mention of the physics. The shooter (you) is shooting the gun. If the shooter aims at something at an extreme angle, the gun will do the correct thing IN LIGHT OF THE PHYSICS. The shooter may not, if he has little to no experience with the difference in POI due to angle and doesn't correct. We can have no idea about another shooters experience level with different things unless they are described. Maybe I missed something there. I didn't think OP described how much he had shot at targets off horizontal so I ASSUMED it wasn't a common thing for him. I could well have been wrong in making that assumption. I grew up shooting down off high river banks into the rivers and up from the river into tall trees, often tall trees on top of the high bank. So I learned at a very early age that unless the SHOOTER corrects for the angle, he will often miss because the gun is smarter than he is and is doing what it "should". He (the shooter) might not be doing the correct thing (the adjustment). Thus, the statement YOU will shoot high.

Seems OP has sold the gun and will try something different. Hopefully he didn't rid himself of a good shooter because of a POTENTIAL error in technique. As to the OP mentioning being "scientific" about this, one can make all types of calculations for the difference or one can shoot enough to develop an instinct for it. It isn't commonly a massive difference at air gun ranges so learning to compensate for it isn't something that requires a lot of "science" to eliminate MOST of the error, just some practice IF an individual has a place where such shooting can be practiced. Not everyone has had lots of direct experience with such. I was lucky geographically in that regard. I guess the shooter could climb up onto the roof and shoot down into the yard to practice, but such might not be worth it. Gravity is a *****, both for the pellet and the shooter.
 
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