Good Scope Information

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Odoyle you have to know that damned few of us can buy 20 scopes at a time even if we anticipate returning all but two if them. I’m not without and in fact fortunate but my wife does on occasion check the bank and or credit card accounts. A guy has to sleep some time and if I bought 20 scopes I’d have to sleep with one eye open or a guard dog at my side. The dog likes her better so I’m screwed . LOL but my point that buying in the quantities that you do is not reality. BUT we do appreciated your input from your experience.
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That is funny.. LMAO
 
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Good post man. You and I have discussed some of these same points on the side.

Eyes are different and what is important is different, as many have stated. What each of us likes is different.

Many people (including myself when I started) wanted others to tell them what to buy. I thought I would get that perfect scope on the first try. Now, I’ve owned many different ones, as I’ve learned what I like and dislike. People like to ask about the glass, but don’t know what they are asking. I don’t know if you like contrast or resolution. I think you have to try many to figure it out, and be willing to buy and sell several (used preferably to save money), so you can test out a bunch. And people really need to pay attention to reticles! So important!! 

I have several favorites and it all comes down to what I have tried and tested. I have disliked great scopes that others liked. I have liked cheaper scopes over more expensive scopes. Quite a few scopes have not agreed with my eyes, and that is cool. I assume it is my eyes. I try to find a great balance of quality and price when I can, and it can be hard. And I almost always buy used, so I can afford to resell it if I don’t like it. 
 
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MOST MOST MOST IMPORTANT always buy from dealer AFTER researching after sale customer service history about said vendor and if said vendor can do in house repairs in a timely manner no excuses or what and if it needs to be mailed outside the country for warranty. 

At least it's not a gun that you don't know how to cock it properly.
 
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What is interesting is watching everyone trying to compare things with no real specs or anything tangible to compare. It would be like comparing eyeglasses without knowing if the lenses were Zeiss, Essilor, Nikon etc. Then you have to know which grade/specs, thickness of that manufacturer and which coatings etc Then you can start to compare glass quality. Once you try some you know which ones suit you then you look for products with that glass. 



I am certain that Bushnell, Leupold, Sightron etc don't look through a bunch of lenses from some country of origin then decide on a couple. The glass manufacturer then pulls some price out of thin air from his marketing department. These are all bought on specs that are not passed on to us purposely. Same with just about all the rest of the components in the scope. 



With scopes we are kind of stuck in the Neanderthal stage with "looks to me as good as" or “it is good as a $2000 scope” when there is no spec for a $2000 scope beyond some people pay that much for it. Not taking away anything from Doyole and Stoti etc they are one of our few resources attempting to cut through all the marketing glitz by actually trying 50 different scopes and hundreds of individual ones. We really don't have much more to go on besides a bunch of "he says'"or everybody buy 20 different scopes and test them all because you can't trust the guys on Youtube. All this while shelling out thousands of dollars. 


 
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Great post Stoti!



The 2 youtubers I tend to like on optic is "dark lord of optics" and "richard utting", 2 very different styles of shooting and both are extremely knowledgably. 



https://www.youtube.com/user/SharpshootingUK

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8LveRHZgnq469aWVQVhM2w



Cyclops Joe's reviews are entertaining and has good basic information, I would say they are good intro videos to the scopes. But it doesn't really have in-depth and application specific information to really get to know the scope and how well it does for designed applications. To be fair that's really really hard to do and you have to be industry insiders like Dark lord of optics to be able to even have that kind of information. Or only review specific niche products that is in their expertise like richard utting who only reviews long range and ELR scopes. I'm an engineer by trade so I love nerding out on all the specs, design goals/philosophies, testing methods and approaches, specific applications.......basically every little details on the scope. Definitely isn't for everyone. 😅
 
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It is very true that there is not much true science involved. I wish there was but that’s another reality we have to deal with. If things would hold true to form my guess is it wouldn’t have much affect on the situation and purchasing decisions we all make. What it comes back too is again how good does it have to be balanced against price.
Certainly warranty means a lot but even there. I own three or four Nikon scopes. I thought at the time they were a good value. Now Nikon is out of the scope making business and repairs and warranties are in doubt. I have a couple that need attention. Last time I checked things were shut down due to (they say) the corona virus but my bet is Nikon scopes will not be repaired. I don’t think there is a person who has posted on this thread or read it that would disagree that buying scopes is a crapshoot at best. I guess if you buy twenty at a time your chances of winning improves. I just have to get the dog to see my side on this. 😀. I have returned several scopes to midway . And one to AOA. I have a friend that shoots bench rest and he buys used scopes from other shooters who just have to have the latest and greatest. He’s gotten some scopes which I’ve looked thru and boy they looked good to me. Nightforce mainly. If you are at the right place and at the right time.

I’m going back to sleep with the one eye open. 🤪
 
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The real issue is just how good does a scope have to be. And that one is hard to answer for certain. IF ??? a person could answer that and then shop he would have a chance.
For me since I almost exclusively varmint hunt and shoot targets in good light the glass quality is of less importance . I spend about $1000 on scopes for my varmint rifles because I’ve been disappointed in the $500 scopes with respect to their mechanics. For air rifles I spend about $500 if we are talking high quality PCP’s. I’m not going to discuss springers because that’s an entirely different subject. I don’t shoot high power springers . Frankly the real expensive stuff (meaning 3 or 4 k ) is nice but not necessary for my use. If I was hunting big game and spending large bundles of cash to do that and potentially needing perfect glass I could see the true need. That takes me back to trying to figure how much you need . I happen to like leupold but only because it’s what I grew up. I have no doubt other scopes just as good.
There are really inexpensive scopes which are probably good enough for many air gunners. The Alpha 6 comes to mind. I don’t think anyone would be disappointed in the quality of the glass. I don’t trust the mechanics but that is prejudicial on my part. If it’s too good to be true there is usually a reason. I’m skeptical on bargain anything’s.
Everyone’s situation is different. Buying the best you can afford. Buy once cry once applies to scopes . One thing for certain in my 45 years of shooting the quality of scopes has improved dramatically. Getting back to that original question how much is good enough. Hard to say isn’t it?
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Appreciate your input on this. I've found it helpful in navigating the morass of what to buy.
 
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Yes, thanks Stoti! Well put in so many ways.

The only thing I can really add is sometimes "for reasons of who knows why??!!" A particular scope/s in a brand just turns out better than some others of the same brand, or that that particular scope has pretty much left the other scopes it would compete with in it's dust. I'm not talking glass alone, or this alone, or that alone, but the scope as a whole is so good in almost all ways that its hard to warm up to anything else it was designed to go head to head with.

Or the opposite, man there are some crappy scopes out there with a host of faltering aspects all lowering its worth to a dizzying meltdown of disfunction, lol.

EVERYTHING about a scope is everything - within the limits of imperfection of course! 




 
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stoti, you hit the "Optic" nerve. Excellent post!!!

My observation is simply. Aren't scopes like glasses? well, yes, kind of. Glasses are not exactly the same for everyone. This would apply to those that don't wear glasses as well, right? Eyes are not the same, glasses or not. Lets look at the human eye first. On average ( not everyone is average I must add) we humans can distinguish around 1 million colors. How we distinguish these colors individually is the subjective part...Now lets manufacture a scope at a particular price point 😉. The glass starts with sand which is mostly silicon dioxide...You get the idea from there. Then there is the alloys that make up the body of the scope...You get this too I would say. Put this concoction together somewhere in the world and ,Voila! you have a scope. Is it a good or not so good scope? Depends. Manufacturing a scope is a very complicated process. Science, computers and advancements in machine technology have helped create the scopes we have today at incredible values. Here is where it gets complicated. Making glass is one thing and making scope bodies is another and putting them together by a human and/or machine over and over, PERFECTLY is...well, never going to happen. This is why Alpha Scopes cost what they cost. These Alpha tier manufactures pursues a level of perfection some will pay $$$$ for to see and feel what they understand to be important for their shooting preference. To achieve this "perfection", Alpha tier manufactures spend an incredible amount of money on science, machine technology and human assembly to overcome as many of the optical and mechanical aberrations as can be. Perfect as perfect can be. Something for nothing in the scope world is an anomaly but these technologies will trickle down to the rest of us at some point.

The scope is an important part of the sum, not the whole.

JMO 


 
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