Tuning Good groups with POI shift

Hi everyone,
I'm hoping someone can help me out. I'm in the process of tuning my FX Crown and I've already achieved an extreme spread of 5–8 fps with a velocity around 875–880 fps.
When testing accuracy at 75 meters, I get good 3–4 shot groups that can be covered with a thumb. But on the 5th or 6th shot, the POI shifts, and I get another group just as tight, but in a different spot on the target.

I'm shooting .22 caliber with the 700 mm Superlight barrel. Regulator is set at 78 bar.
Outside temperature is high, around 38°C.

I don't know if it could be me, parallax not properly set, the temperature, the moderator... or barrel harmonics.

Thanks and cheers to all!
 
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Hi everyone,
I'm hoping someone can help me out. I'm in the process of tuning my FX Crown and I've already achieved an extreme spread of 5–8 fps with a velocity around 875–880 fps.
When testing accuracy at 75 meters, I get good 3–4 shot groups that can be covered with a thumb. But on the 5th or 6th shot, the POI shifts, and I get another group just as tight, but in a different spot on the target.

I'm shooting .22 caliber with the 700 mm Superlight barrel. Regulator is set at 78 bar.
Outside temperature is high, around 38°C.

I don't know if it could be me, parallax not properly set, the temperature, the moderator... or barrel harmonics.

Thanks and cheers to all!
The only way to stop that is tension the barrel system. The superlite in 700mm will do it. The 500mm will not.
 
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I have no experience on FX but to set the parallax you get the gun set in a rest on the target and then without touching it move you head around and look to see if the crosshairs move. If they do, move the diopter (screw the eyepiece in and out) until they do not. If you head position is changing inadvertantly it will do that.

Temperature will change your velocity a little so when I go from lower inside temperatures to higher outside temperatures this time of year I like to leave the gun on the bench for a few minutes to let it stabilize. But usually velocity change will show up in a vertical shift. If it is rising maybe. The moderator could clip but that is usually a pretty gross change in point of impact, not a small shift. Harmonics should not be the issue.

Your gun also might not love the pellet you are shooting. But multiple shots into point A then multiple into point B does suggest the barrel is shifting to me.
 
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Hi everyone,
I'm hoping someone can help me out. I'm in the process of tuning my FX Crown and I've already achieved an extreme spread of 5–8 fps with a velocity around 875–880 fps.
When testing accuracy at 75 meters, I get good 3–4 shot groups that can be covered with a thumb. But on the 5th or 6th shot, the POI shifts, and I get another group just as tight, but in a different spot on the target.

I'm shooting .22 caliber with the 700 mm Superlight barrel. Regulator is set at 78 bar.
Outside temperature is high, around 38°C.

I don't know if it could be me, parallax not properly set, the temperature, the moderator... or barrel harmonics.

Thanks and cheers to all!
Thank you for posting this! I've experienced the same thing but I never thought to consult the forum about it. I'll learn along with you.
 
Hi everyone,
I'm hoping someone can help me out. I'm in the process of tuning my FX Crown and I've already achieved an extreme spread of 5–8 fps with a velocity around 875–880 fps.
When testing accuracy at 75 meters, I get good 3–4 shot groups that can be covered with a thumb. But on the 5th or 6th shot, the POI shifts, and I get another group just as tight, but in a different spot on the target.

I'm shooting .22 caliber with the 700 mm Superlight barrel. Regulator is set at 78 bar.
Outside temperature is high, around 38°C.

I don't know if it could be me, parallax not properly set, the temperature, the moderator... or barrel harmonics.

Thanks and cheers to all!
Just a thought here from a non-expert -- that's me.
If your rifle is in the shade the whole time and it's been there long enough that the scope and rifle have totally equalized to the ambient temperature, then I'd say the problem is probably not temperature-related. But if you haven't given the rifle enough time to equalize to the ambient temperature, or if the rifle is in and out of direct sunlight, then it could be temperature-related. Black anodized aluminum loves to soak up direct sunlight fast and get hot(er) fast and thermally expand fast and it will do it faster on the sunny side than the shaded side. So a scope (for example) could be temporarily unevenly heated up.
The plenum pressure on my Maverick rises FAST when direct sunlight first hits it broadside and I can see that happening on the gauge. I don't know what it's doing to my scope's point-of-aim when that happens. I'm just thinking out loud -- not an expert.

stovepipe
 
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Hi everyone,
I'm hoping someone can help me out. I'm in the process of tuning my FX Crown and I've already achieved an extreme spread of 5–8 fps with a velocity around 875–880 fps.
When testing accuracy at 75 meters, I get good 3–4 shot groups that can be covered with a thumb. But on the 5th or 6th shot, the POI shifts, and I get another group just as tight, but in a different spot on the target.

I'm shooting .22 caliber with the 700 mm Superlight barrel. Regulator is set at 78 bar.
Outside temperature is high, around 38°C.

I don't know if it could be me, parallax not properly set, the temperature, the moderator... or barrel harmonics.

Thanks and cheers to all!
To sound like a broken record once again....Its an "FX" thing..... The whole Barrel/Liner" system is flawed ...

The liner can and does produce some excellent accuracy. BUT !!! its extremely prone to "movement" which cause,s POI changes.
The barrel "Tensioning" is a complete and utter waste of time ...you are just trying to "band aid" an issue and design flaw...simple as that.

I enjoy shooting my modded FX,s ( M3,s) but in "Factory " ...."out of the box" configuration they are a frustrating nightmare..
 
Hi Doc,
I had a FX Crown Gen 1 for 5-6 years and had the same experience.
It was bought with a 500 mm barrel and I later bought both .177 and .22 600 mm barrels.
I even made a 700 mm DIY barrel too with a near solid 25 mm carbon pipe.

The POI shift problem is probably not the Barrel if you have the O-rings on the liner as original.
I tried many solutions to reduce the shift challenge.

I found the shift was extremely bad when using af barrel clamp for the bipod.
It was better with a small picatinni rail fitted to the front of the walnut stock.

But even then its a problem.

I experimented a lot with loose screws, og semi loose screws for the stock.
The best result is where the both screws must be very tight.

I also tryid to make a super tight fit in the stock with epoxi (Aluminium parts were waxed with mold wax.
It did not help much.

The problem is worst when shooting on a bipod. The movement between target generate the slightest twist and you experience a change in POI. If you try putting something that slides easily under the bipod feeds it helps a lot.

Another problem is how much weight or you are push or pulling on the bipod.

Since the POI shift was worst on the bottle support, the problem is the bipod fitted on the stock is far back.
So shooting with the bipod feet pointing 45° forward is a stable base. But again very sensible to how you carry the weight on the stock in the back. Stock just touching the sholder and then supported by a bag, hand or other is difficult to repeat 100% equal when moving to next target.

I used several years a fixed Accutac BR4 G2 and this is stiff and the slightest twist vill generate POI shifts.
Then i bought FC4 g2 that can twist at the front. But this still have too much friction and you still get POI shifts.
Then i Bought a mini Tripod with a ball head that can turn free without was better but unfortunatly difficult to use since the mounting was close to the ballance point.
I tried to cover the stock at the rear with a layer of 1500 gramm lead moving the rifles centre gravity move backwards - that helped a lot.

With barrel I tried many different things. Now i use 5-6 tight fit 3d printed plastic bushes as spacers that keeps the liner absolutely centered.

Its just is very hold sensible. I thought about buing a Sabre Tactical Aluminium stock.
but I found it was better to sell the Crown and bought a FX Impact M4 to replace this.

So now I have a FX Impact M4 Sniper, A Daystate Delta Wolf HP and a Daystate Redwolf.
So to compare .... By far is the least hold sentitive rifles the two daystates. (The deltawolf is only surpreme stable with the optinal barrel clamp)

The Impact M4 is much better than the FX Crown - but still way more sensible that the Daystates.
Both Daystate rifles are also a lot heavier. (My Redwolfs bipod is fitted via a diy 3d printed bottle / picatinni clamp) and even with this the Redwolf is on another level with stability.

The worst hold sensible rifle I own is the Gen. 1 Air Venturi Avenger.
It shoots impressingly good in a one hole group. But when moving to the next target its like lottery where the group will appear. (I did design and 3d printed a new frontend for the Avenger to improve on this- I think my DIY stock made the rifle to be equal to the Crown in POI shifts. - A real improvement but when you like to shoot 10x then its not there)

I did update My Accutac FC4 g2 with a 3d printed clamp that slides easier, together with greasing the inside part of the turning part with very liquid grease with a lot of teflon powder in. Its a major improvement. The best is still to use a mini tripod with a Ball head joint.
I now that a real benchrest front support is probably a lot better - but I havent tried that.

But I spent many hours fighting POI shifts with the Crown. I never won entirely but i achived improvements.
Again - I bet the problem is not in the barrel - its the Body / stock that gives problem.
Weight to the rifle is also a decent help.

Best regards from denmark
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I am shooting 100M from a bench, sitting in a shaded and three sided enclosed space.
My gun is a FX Impact MK2 in .25x700 and .25x600.
Through the years I have investigated this phenomena and did some mods on the gun as well.
Many things to take care and I would like to keep it short as possible.

The first thing is, that I locked the liner in the barrel cannot move that 0.1mm what is a gap between the liner and the lock "nut".
Here is one old picture that can explain:

chamfer.JPG


The next....

Fabricated for tunning purposes but I started using regularly - I have a one piece mechanical rest. The front swivels and the rear is L-R and height adjustable
I am using high power 10-50x56 scope and like to zoom in into very center of the target.
And with this my setup I can see what most people missing.
How much is the bench table top flexing? I just rest my hand on table top and I can see through the high power scope the table top flexes 4-5-6 or more MOA if I push it only with my finger.

The next....

Front or tail wind especially if coming down from above? Needless to explain what that does to POI.
The worst is when it is colder and I am wearing long. Summertime is coming, wearing in shorts I can "feel" on body hair and beard more sensitive if the air is moving...

The next....
Spiraling sometimes you can see in the scope, especially if the sun is behind your back and lighting up the back of the pellet/slug.
This can also be tested with shooting multiple distances in short increments like 4-5 meters. With a sharpy make a vertical line on multiple target papers (place it on backstop with a plumbers line) and try to aim into these lines. You can see ones you hit from Left and next distance you hit from Right side.
This spiraling no need to be some aggressive amount, but definitely noticeable if you shooting from a solid rest position.

And there are more, but lets digest these things first :)
 
Alright, I think I’ve found the solution. Today I’ve been testing bags, bipods, barrel cleaning, pellets, slugs... until I thought of changing the shooting table — switching from a plastic Calweld to a regular, more solid one. The difference is huge. Even so, I still need to keep experimenting. I'm posting some photos of the before and after... open groups and the last group, 18-shot magazine all centered... the shot at the top was from a previous round.
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I epoxed the sleeve on the liner and bought the new barrel spacers to fit and its been eliminated. If i get a POI shift its from temperature change or its dirty i have polished my barrel and when the POI shifts its usually a dirty barrel i clean with ballistol about 8 patches and its good to go takes about 5 or 6 pellets to straighten back out and its good to go