Gecado 65 / Diana 65

[AirSupply]

There was a Gecado 65 advertised here (Australia) on line. It was there for a few weeks and I considered enquiring about as it was quite local. By the time I convinced myself I really did need another 10m gun the add was taken down. 
I presumed it had been sold but thought it wouldn’t hurt to ring the dealer who had it to make sure it was gone. Turns out he pulled the add because although the gun seemed to be working normally when he tried a pellet it didn’t move down the barrel at all! 
He had bought the gun at auction and said he had regretted buying it the minute he got it. 
I ended up doing a deal with him and got the gun for half it’s advertised price. 
I’ve read about these guns and it seems common that they aren’t working and need new seals and springs. 
My feeling is the guy did take it apart to a point and then decided it was to time consuming to repair. 
You can see in this photo some of the old seal caught up in the tread of the rear cap. 
Also the little locking screw looks like it had a workout! 

Overall the gun is in pretty good condition. The blueing is very good. 
I have ordered new springs and seals from ARH and while I’m waiting for them though I’d refinish the stock. 
This will be a first for me and would appreciate any tips. My first question is should I use a paint stripper on the stock or just start sanding? Apparently this stock has an oil finish? 

 

[Pneumatic-Addict]

I like the D65, and the stock looks fine to me. Are you sure you want to refinish it?

 

[AirSupply]

It’s not to bad. Has a few light scratches that would sand out. It’s the colour and dark patches where it’s been handled over the years I’d like to fix. It looks better in the photo than in person. Up close it just looks a bit dark and old. 

 

[Ripper]

I’ve bought used guns that had boogered up screws,And I usually lightly tap the top of the screw with a ball peen hammer to push them little dents Back down then lightly sand the head and then use cold bluing. They won’t look brand new again but will look much better when you’re done.

 

[AirSupply]

Thanks Ripper. I’ll give that a go. It’s interesting that a lot of the newer screw drivers I have don’t fit well in the screw heads. They are to wide and don’t go down into the screws properly . Luckily I have some quite old screw drivers of my fathers that fit really well. 
A point of interest. 
I removed the sleeve from the barrel. It came off easily. I did notice that the alignment of the front sight was slightly out. The sleeve has a cut out for the sight. Then I found the reason it’s not perfectly aligned. There is an oring the other end around the barrel. Over time it has been squeezed flat and needs replacing. It has allowed the sleeve to move back to far. 

 

[MDriskill]

The double-piston Diana barrel-cockers (models 60, 65, and 66) are some true classics - a combination of old-time quality and modern (well, modern for the 1960's) recoilless technology. That look like a very good example of a gun that's becoming rare. 

As mentioned, the stock has an actual oil finish. IMHO Diana's wood work was quite superior to its competitors back in the day, and it would be a mistake to refinish it. Start with a good cleaning, maybe blend in some new oil if needed at the scratches and finish with some good wax.

As you noted the attachment of the barrel sleeve on these is quite ingenious. The sleeve is spaced off the barrel by to O-ring at the back and beveled washer at the front, acting to tension the barrel. 

These guns are quite complex internally. Here's a recent post with links to manuals and service details:

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread.php?532005-Manual-repair-of-Diana-double-piston-systems

 

[AirSupply]

Thanks for the advice Mike. I’ll try cleaning/waxing the stock. I spoke last night to a guy here in Australia who has rebuilt a lot of these rifles and have decided to send it to him to do the work. 
He has all the parts on hand and the experience. I’m a little disappointed as I’d like to have done it myself. I enjoy projects like that but he convinced me it’s to easy to mess it up. 
I’ll update the thread when I have it back shooting again. 

 

[Pea-shooter O.G.]

Airsupply, you made a smart decision to send that unit out to have new seals installed. I have some strong mechanical background. I acquired a Diana model 6 pistol for cheap that needed seals and took that on myself. It was a real pain to do and would not do again myself. Although, it sure is a nice shooting gun. If only my eyes could do to justice! Enjoy that beauty!

 

[AirSupply]

Thanks pea-Shooter. I do have complete confidence in the guy that will do the work. Appreciate your opinion.

 

[MDriskill]

AirSupply, thanks for the kind words! I have to say I'm a bit envious - I have two nice examples of the preceding model 60, but have never chanced into a nice 65.

I have to tell ya this story on the stock. I have a friend and fellow airgun collector here in the US who has pro-level skills at both metal and wood work. When he buys vintage HW's, Walthers, or FWB's...he routinely strips the varnish or lacquer finish and re-does them to a higher level! (I would NEVER do or recommend this - but he can pull it off!)

The Dianas were never strongly marketed here IMHO, and don't enjoy the collector cachet of some other brands. My friend had looked down his nose a bit at them, but when I finally talked him into buying a model 60, he was completely blown away by the gorgeous metal finish, utterly recoilless action, super trigger - and the stock finish. He took one look at it and said "I can't do any better." He has since bought several more 60-series guns and never touches the wood finish.

 

[AirSupply]

I’ve seen some of you beautiful collection Mike and don’t think you have anything to be envious about I’d swap it for a certain 55T if you like... 

Well I spent a couple of hours cleaning and then used some very good furniture polish on the stock and you and Dave were right. It came up really well and I’m happy with it. Areas that were dark I can now see wood grain. 
I haven’t really spent any time cleaning up the metal work and will wait till it gets back from being rebuilt. 

Thanks again. 

 

[MDriskill]

WOW that looks fantastic! What a beautiful rifle. BTW it's unheard of to find one of those red buttplate looking that good, they tend to fall to pieces over time due to oxidation and internal chemical reactions.

I'm glad the wood shined up for ya. I've seen a lot of old target rifles that were really filthy - I guess their original owners regarded them as tools rather than putting them on pedestals as objets d'art like me, LOL!

 

[Sammi68]

• Thought I’d jump in as I’m guilty of being enamored with these older giss guns. I recently picked up a Winchester 333 that came to me needing a reseal. Unfortunately, just before being shipped, the owner broke the stock at the grip. To his credit we worked out a compromise and he sent it to me. Figuring the likelihood of finding a new stock was slim I undertook the task of going it back together. While not perfect, it’s pretty solid and holding up. After getting the stock glued up, off it went with a Winchester 363 and a Gecado model 6 to Mr Slade for him to do his work. All came back working as they should. Now it was time to work on cleaning up the stock on the 333. Basically cleaned it up, applied numerous amounts of walnut oil, then a light coat of wipe on Polly to seal it up. As with all these older guns, I’m prolly in deeper then I should be but there’s just something about bringing these old beauties back to life. This 65 is super accurate and really smooth. I’m not to concerned about the stock integrity as there’s really no movement when the gun is fired. For those who haven’t shot one, I highly recommend trying it.
• 
  
  
  A bonus pic of the 65 along side an “Original” 66.

 

[AirSupply]

Hi Sammie. I can’t see were it broke in the photo. They both look great. At this stage I still haven’t shot a GISS rifle but hoping to do that soon! 
The finish on the barrel sleeve is interesting isn’t it Nothing like the shiny blued barrel underneath.
It seems like a surface that would stand up to the constant handling it would get. Looks really tough. 
I like the photo of the 65 & 66 together. You can see it starting to resemble the FWB’s and the on its to evolving into the 75. 

 

[MDriskill]

Two more lovely Dianas! Thanks much for the pics of the 65 and 66.

Because inflicting airgun history trivia on innocent bystanders is what I DO, LOL...I will mention that the 65 and 66 are mechanically identical. The stock was the only change - that angular look was all the rage in the 70's when the 66 was made. Reportedly the development of the fixed-barrel model 75 was behind schedule, so the 66 was an interim effort to keep up with the competition.

To back this up, Winchester sold Dianas in the US from about 1969 to 1975. The model 65 was their "Winchester 333" here in the US, but the last few 333's sold may have actually been model 66's, and Winchester definitely sold the 66 stock as a replacement part.

The matte phosphated barrel sleeve finish is a similar process to parkerizing. It was an effort to reduce glare, and also a trendy styling touch of the day, I think. The 65 and 66 always had matte sleeves, but the lighter sleeve on the model 60 can be found with either blued or matte finish, depending on when the gun was made.

Final bit...the model 60 (introduced 1963) preceded the models 65 (1968) and 66 (1974), but also out-lived them! The introduction of the model 75 in 1977 killed the 65/66 action, but the 60 soldiered on as Diana's less expensive junior model until 1983.

 

[DualMagMike]

Love my 60 and yes it's a Tyrolean 

 

[Sammi68]

Hi Airsupply,

Here is a pic of the break in the stock. Like I said, it’s not perfect but I don’t think it looks to bad. 

I’m really enjoying this 65 as I can shoot it without issue. You see, I shoot lefty and most of these older Diana’s are set up for right handed shooters (right handed but left eye dominant). The 66 posted above is setup for righty’s with a hard cast pitch to the butt pad which makes it almost impossible to shoot lefty. I bought it because you don’t see them for sale often. (Had to be rebuilt) I can shoot righty but it’s very uncomfortable for me. To that end, finding true left handed match rifle is hard to do. I’m fortunate to have a few and snapped up this Hv 75 when it went up for sale. Similar story with needing to be rebuilt but this is near perfect. Again needs to be experienced. You’ll be hooked

 

[T-Higgs]

Sammi68,

I’m in the same boat as you, right handed and left eye dominate. Several of the fine ten meter rifles in R hand persuasion can be be comfortably shot lefty style but there is no substitute for owning a true lefty. The 65 is one of those ambi type rifles but the 75 is not. I’ve shot many ten meter airguns and my favorite are the giss system rifles. David Slade rebuilt this 65 for me and Hector Medina acquired this lefty 75 for me. An absolute joy to own and shoot . I also have a lefty FWB 300 but I’ll choose the Giss guns every time.

 

[MDriskill]

One of the cool things about German match sights, is the almost ridiculous number of cool accessories made for them. Which includes this gadget especially designed for the opposite-eye-dominant problem:

https://gehmann.com/english/products.php?id=194&kategorie=23

Note that you need a separate piece to attach it to an iris.

And as you noted, the Diana 75 is one of the very few match rifles made in a true, completely left-handed, version. Not only is the stock southpaw, but the cocking lever is on the left side. Hard to find, but they are out there.

 

[Guest]

I

WOW that looks fantastic! What a beautiful rifle. BTW it's unheard of to find one of those red buttplate looking that good, they tend to fall to pieces over time due to oxidation and internal chemical reactions.

I'm glad the wood shined up for ya. I've seen a lot of old target rifles that were really filthy - I guess their original owners regarded them as tools rather than putting them on pedestals as objets d'art like me, LOL!

I've had good success in restoring the red butt pad, as here with before and after on an early Walther LG55. Maybe the rubber compound was

 designed to be sanded down so that the LOP could be decreased?