Gauntlett 2 stage trigger experience

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25addict

25addict

Member
Dec 16, 2019
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Oregon
So.......
I bought a gauntlet coz I wanted a .177 for the occasional starling or pest around the house and black friday made it easy. I figured the gaunlet would be a good fit since it gets pretty good reviews for a budget pcp and I would not feel the need to baby it. Turns out after that after a barrel band, some shroud cones and a trigger adjustment it ain't bad. What I am wondering from y'all is...... has anyone tried the 2 stage adjustable trigger I see for sale? I mean the stock one does the job but I'll just say it. I'm a trigger snob 😁
Anyway please let me know if you have experienced it.
Best,
Ron
 
Sorry for the double post. If a mod could please remove one I'd sure appreciate it 
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I always thought the concept of a two stage trigger is to allow large sear overlap for safety, while still having a crisp short break. This is done by lowering the trigger spring force with high overlap, and including an amplification of trigger resistance at the end, just before the sear break. I’ve seen this done with secondary springs or pivot points that reduce the mechanical advantage of the trigger right before break. Adding a spring plunger that is activated right at the break and decreasing the trigger spring follows that logic.


To test how safe your trigger is you should jolt the gun while cocked (and not loaded) to see If the trigger can let go on its own. This simulates what might happen if you drop the gun or bang it into something. Take a heavy rubber mallet and hit the gun in all four directions. Bang the buttstock forward. Bang the bottle back. Hit the top of the receiver and the underside of the gun fore and aft of the trigger housing. Finally pull back the bolt back all the way and let it slip from you fingers and bang into the hammer block. If the gun goes off in any of those instances you need more sear overlap, a heavier trigger spring or a heavier 2nd stage spring...or some combination of those.
 
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I don't own a Gauntlet and maybe I'm missing something here but this mechanism appears to still function as a one stage trigger while providing the sensation of two stages.
Click to expand...

I agree with you.

With a true two stage trigger, each stage moves the sear using two different leverages.

With a "fake" two stage trigger, the first "stage" is merely taking up slack in the mechanism, while compressing a spring/plunger.

I had a Gaunt!et, and did the spring plunger modification. Even though it felt like a two stage, it was not.
 
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For Hajimoto, looking at the pictures in Bob O and 25addict posts-

If you took your design and extended the silver part upward to a point just in front of the stock pivot point, made an actual pivot there, and then included the bar that extends to the right and actually engages the sear into the body of the silver part, could that arrangement then be made to function more like an actual two stage trigger? The stock top screw would have to function as a first stage depth adjustment and your lower adjustment screw as a second stage adjustment. Not sure it could work but possible?
 
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I don't own a Gauntlet and maybe I'm missing something here but this mechanism appears to still function as a one stage trigger while providing the sensation of two stages.
Click to expand...

I agree with you.

With a true two stage trigger, each stage moves the sear using two different leverages.

With a "fake" two stage trigger, the first "stage" is merely taking up slack in the mechanism, while compressing a spring/plunger.

I had a Gaunt!et, and did the spring plunger modification. Even though it felt like a two stage, it was not.
Click to expand...

The first two stage triggers I saw all had a 2nd pivot point that significantly decreased the triggers mechanical advantage (leverage) just before break. But I’ve seen a lot of newer designs that just add a 2nd spring resistance just before the break. I wouldn’t consider these “fake” as they achieve a similar result of having a “safe” trigger with a low first stage effort with lots of sear overlap, while having a much higher break effort.



The QB78/Gauntlet mod, adding a detent spring to the end of the spring travel, like Haji demonstrates in his video, is the latter method.
 
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The advantage of a true 2 stage trigger is that you can have lots of sear engagement for safety with the first stage taking that to near break and the second stage then providing a predictable short crisp break point. You can't as easily have both safe engagement depth and a short clean break without a true mechanical 2 stage trigger. Even the OP acknowledges that his trigger is "two-stage-ish". If one likes the feel, that is fine and it might feel better than stock to certain shooters. It isn't a true 2 stage trigger.
 
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The advantage of a true 2 stage trigger is that you can have lots of sear engagement for safety with the first stage taking that to near break and the second stage then providing a predictable short crisp break point. You can't as easily have both safe engagement depth and a short clean break without a true mechanical 2 stage trigger. Even the OP acknowledges that his trigger is "two-stage-ish". If one likes the feel, that is fine and it might feel better than stock to certain shooters. It isn't a true 2 stage trigger.
Click to expand...

You can if you don't do it backwards and create a fake first stage like the kit does. Instead you lighten the first stage by decreasing the trigger spring and add a second stage by adding a second spring that adds additional trigger force at break. That way you This can keep lots of sear overlap for safety while still having the crisp break later. It is effectively very similar to a trigger that changes it's leverage points. 
 
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The advantage of a true 2 stage trigger is that you can have lots of sear engagement for safety with the first stage taking that to near break and the second stage then providing a predictable short crisp break point. You can't as easily have both safe engagement depth and a short clean break without a true mechanical 2 stage trigger. Even the OP acknowledges that his trigger is "two-stage-ish". If one likes the feel, that is fine and it might feel better than stock to certain shooters. It isn't a true 2 stage trigger.
Click to expand...

You can if you don't do it backwards and create a fake first stage like the kit does. Instead you lighten the first stage by decreasing the trigger spring and add a second stage by adding a second spring that adds additional trigger force at break. That way you This can keep lots of sear overlap for safety while still having the crisp break later. It is effectively very similar to a trigger that changes it's leverage points.
Click to expand...

That is true...the simulated two stage is better in some ways than the fake two stage trigger. It gives you the longer/safer sear engagement with a detectable break point. But adding extra spring resistance means that it won't break as cleanly as it could otherwise.


OK: "fake two stage". During the "1st stage", a spring allows resistance/movement of trigger blade without moving the sear.

Good: "simulated two stage". Spring/detent/plunger acts as a "2nd stage" break point.

Best: "real two stage". Two separate fulcrums - one for each stage.

Edit: That said - my current favorite FT rifle (Diana Skyhawk) has a fake two stage trigger. It works well. I'd prefer a real two stage, but can live with the compromises just fine. There are valid reasons a manufacturer might choose one type over another. Each (OK, Good, Best) has their place. And each can perform well. And then there are some people who don't like two stage triggers for their purposes - so there are even more options.
 
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The advantage of a true 2 stage trigger is that you can have lots of sear engagement for safety with the first stage taking that to near break and the second stage then providing a predictable short crisp break point. You can't as easily have both safe engagement depth and a short clean break without a true mechanical 2 stage trigger. Even the OP acknowledges that his trigger is "two-stage-ish". If one likes the feel, that is fine and it might feel better than stock to certain shooters. It isn't a true 2 stage trigger.
Click to expand...

You can if you don't do it backwards and create a fake first stage like the kit does. Instead you lighten the first stage by decreasing the trigger spring and add a second stage by adding a second spring that adds additional trigger force at break. That way you This can keep lots of sear overlap for safety while still having the crisp break later. It is effectively very similar to a trigger that changes it's leverage points.
Click to expand...

That is true...the simulated two stage is better in some ways than the fake two stage trigger. It gives you the longer/safer sear engagement with a detectable break point. But adding extra spring resistance means that it won't break as cleanly as it could otherwise.


OK: "fake two stage". During the "1st stage", a spring allows resistance/movement of trigger blade without moving the sear.

Good: "simulated two stage". Spring/detent/plunger acts as a "2nd stage" break point.

Best: "real two stage". Two separate fulcrums - one for each stage.

Edit: That said - my current favorite FT rifle (Diana Skyhawk) has a fake two stage trigger. It works well. I'd prefer a real two stage, but can live with the compromises just fine. There are valid reasons a manufacturer might choose one type over another. Each (OK, Good, Best) has their place. And each can perform well. And then there are some people who don't like two stage triggers for their purposes - so there are even more options.
Click to expand...

I prefer a well designed single stage that is designed to not be effected by impact...a balanced non-inertial design. The two stage is a bit of a band aid.
 
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