Other Gas/spring piston guns and slugs, long term?

[Just Zack 2]

Has anyone shot slugs through their gas/spring piston guns and have any long term information they could share?

Looking for actual things like shots until spring failure, piston seal life and similar, that is if it varies from just shooting pellets. I always suspected the extra strain from shooting slugs would shorten the life of consumable parts (springs/seals) but have no concrete evidence either way.

 

[c_m_shooter]

I would think the loss in accuracy would be reason enough not to shoot them.

 

[Just Zack 2]

I would think the loss in accuracy would be reason enough not to shoot them.

I agree 100%. If there's no accuracy, then slug use would be useless.

Now with a wide variety of conical type airgun projectiles being made by various manufacturers and many magnum class airguns (possibly collecting dust), it just might be worth looking into. Recently watched a video of an HW80 .177cal shooting 10gr slugs with good success, not saying all will have the same. There are similar videos on YT, but none touch on long term effects. At the same time, I believe if a given platform is not capable of accurately pushing a slug up to or beyond 900fps there is little point in doing so, and there would be no benefit to using slugs over pellets in most cases.

 

[Septicdeath]

Why shoot slugs in a springer? Accuracy sucks!

 

[Just Zack 2]

Why shoot slugs in a springer? Accuracy sucks!

 

[Berserkeley Mike]

In general, sure, slugs would not be predicted to shoot as well as diabolos from a springer, but in practice, can anyone predict which pellet or slug will be accurate and shoot well? Maybe the best thing is to try some slugs and see. I don't think 100 slugs will break a gun any faster than 100 diabolos that are too heavy/light/small or whatever, and one will know within 10 shots that the projectile isn't a good match for the gun.

Case in point: I picked up a NOE mold for .22 boattail slugs (they look like little beer kegs), so I could cast and shoot an unleaded tin projectile with better BC than tin diabolos like the "Baracuda Green"s. I tried the little beer kegs in all my .22 springers, and in some the slug wouldn't even leave the barrel (Hatsan Mod25 pistol), from others it made a nice shotgun pattern downrange, but from a Hatsan Mod87 (the plastic version of the 95), it actually shot as accurately as the diabolo, and the gas spring/piston felt pretty good shooting them, one solid thunk. So you never know.

 

[beerthief]

ok ,so what would be the point here ? exactly what would be a difference in a 10 gr. slug VS a 10 gr. pellet ? would a Squirrel know which killed it ?
@ 50 yards would a slug fly better or hit harder ? 10 grains is 10 grains , lead /tin /aluminum / glass / plastic

 

[Berserkeley Mike]

beerthief, the point may just be the top of my head, but I think the idea is that with a better ballistic coeficient, a slug of the same weight will carry a little more energy out to 50 yards. But then again it may take 50 yards to see a difference. For example, a 10.3gr .177 JSB diabolo shot out at 12 ft# is calculated to have only 7.8 ft# at 50 yards, while a JSB knockout 10.03gr slug shot at the same 12 ft# will have 9 ft# at 50 yards.
So you make a great counterpoint, is 1.2 ft# enough to make any difference? Not for me, as I'm not accurate with even a laser pointer at 50 yards. But for some people it might.
And if one doesn't keep the weight of the pellet the same but just the energy of the gun, then the downrange difference between slug and diabolo can be greater. For example, shot at 12 ft# a 10 grain diabolo in tin (.22 caliber) will have only 6.2 ft# at 50 yards. A slug can be made much heavier, say almost twice the weight at 19.7gr, and would have 8.2 ft# at 50 yards. 8.2 vs. 6.2 starts to be a difference from the squirrel's point of view, and that is just thinking of it in energy foot pounds and not the momentum of the pellet, which would be around 2/3 greater for the heavy slug. There are some arguments for downrange momentum too. I can't vouch for squirrels but the heavy slug pellets sure hit the trap a lot harder.
If one has a "magnum" .177 springer then one might only want to shoot heavy pellets, and those might include some flavor of slugs if they happen to be accurate in the gun. I just didn't want the OP to discount them as inherently inaccurate without actually testing and enjoying, yes, probable failure yet possible success.

 

[seangabrell]

I wouldn’t worry too much about it. Shoot what’s most accurate. If a spring breaks or a seal goes bad replace it. If you’re a good enough shot 6.2 or 8.2 fpe won’t matter

 

[Mycapt65]

Most piston guns lose efficiency as pellet weights increase. I'm not sure if it's the same with slugs I suspect that it would be. Matching muzzle energy on two projectiles of the weight can have different terminal energy. Weight isn't the only factor in energy retention. Even with equal sectional density they can have different Ballistic Coefficients. Ballistic Coefficient determines energy retention.

Example an 8 grain wadcutter pellet will have significantly less energy down than an 8 grain domed pellet when starting off with the same muzzle energy. The wadcutter is aerodynamicly a brick. Where as the dome is much more streamlined. A few minutes on chair gun would prove it true.

Skirted pellets in general are aerodynamic disasters. I suspect slugs would have much better BC and thus retain more energy at the target. The trick is whether or not they work in your gun. I don't mess with slugs in my springers. I already have enough things to deal with. Only testing with targets and a chronograph will tell you if you're gaining anything with slugs. For starters keep in mind that typically if your muzzle energy goes down you've lost efficiency.

I look for the pellet that produces a combination of the most accuracy and down range energy. In that order.

 

[beerthief]

beerthief, the point may just be the top of my head, but I think the idea is that with a better ballistic coeficient, a slug of the same weight will carry a little more energy out to 50 yards. But then again it may take 50 yards to see a difference. For example, a 10.3gr .177 JSB diabolo shot out at 12 ft# is calculated to have only 7.8 ft# at 50 yards, while a JSB knockout 10.03gr slug shot at the same 12 ft# will have 9 ft# at 50 yards.
So you make a great counterpoint, is 1.2 ft# enough to make any difference? Not for me, as I'm not accurate with even a laser pointer at 50 yards. But for some people it might.
And if one doesn't keep the weight of the pellet the same but just the energy of the gun, then the downrange difference between slug and diabolo can be greater. For example, shot at 12 ft# a 10 grain diabolo in tin (.22 caliber) will have only 6.2 ft# at 50 yards. A slug can be made much heavier, say almost twice the weight at 19.7gr, and would have 8.2 ft# at 50 yards. 8.2 vs. 6.2 starts to be a difference from the squirrel's point of view, and that is just thinking of it in energy foot pounds and not the momentum of the pellet, which would be around 2/3 greater for the heavy slug. There are some arguments for downrange momentum too. I can't vouch for squirrels but the heavy slug pellets sure hit the trap a lot harder.
If one has a "magnum" .177 springer then one might only want to shoot heavy pellets, and those might include some flavor of slugs if they happen to be accurate in the gun. I just didn't want the OP to discount them as inherently inaccurate without actually testing and enjoying, yes, probable failure yet possible success.

thanks for the explanation . but would the cost be worth the little bit of gain ? Yet again it is a hobby how can you put a price on pleasure .

 

[crosman2016]

I thought slugs were best suited for PCP rifles?

 

[Just Zack 2]

Thanks all.

I have some heavy hitting springers (including gas rams) in .177 that need heavy projectiles just to stay subsonic, talking truly over 1000fps with ~10.5gr pellets. With the popularity of conical type airgun projectiles growing, with weights between 10gr and 13gr I figure why not try them out. I already have a .177 slugger pcp set up around 36-37fpe and can be detuned for lighter slugs, so buying a sample for testing wouldn't be a waste. Just wasn't sure if slugs would wear out gas/spring piston guns out noticeably quicker due to the extra bore friction causing longer stress durations on components.

 

[Mycapt65]

Thanks all.

I have some heavy hitting springers (including gas rams) in .177 that need heavy projectiles just to stay subsonic, talking truly over 1000fps with ~10.5gr pellets. With the popularity of conical type airgun projectiles growing, with weights between 10gr and 13gr I figure why not try them out. I already have a .177 slugger pcp set up around 36-37fpe and can be detuned for lighter slugs, so buying a sample for testing wouldn't be a waste. Just wasn't sure if slugs would wear out gas/spring piston guns out noticeably quicker due to the extra bore friction causing longer stress durations on components.

Assuming you have a chronograph. Keep an eye on your energy levels during your testing. As I mentioned earlier a lower energy output is usually from lower efficiency. That loss of efficiency is usually due to excessive piston bounce which is definitely harder on springs. I'm not sure about gas rams.

You're a better man than I am for shooting monster piston guns. Especially in 177. They're usually so violent they're hard to shoot. I do understand your predicament though. Shooting skirted pellets at transonic speeds makes them very unstable.

Good luck with the slug experiments and please update this thread with your results. I'd be interested in your results.

 

[drpietrzak]

Slugs at 100-yards. Springer.

 

[maxtrouble]

I tried some JSB 10 grain slugs in a few .177 springers at 50 yards. Accuracy was no where near diabolo pellets. YMMV

 

[Toxylon]

It has been shown pretty conclusively that heavy pellets shorten coilspring lives compared to midweight pellets. The reason being mostly that heavy pellets have too much inertia, increasing the release pressure of the pellet too much. This leads to extra vibration and stress in the mainspring. Excessive bounce, in part due to poor pellet / spring matching can literally mean the mainspring experiences three compressions per every pellet shot.

Stll, many people shoot heavy pellets, because they have the best accuracy and downrange performance in a particular gun. I have several such guns.

Now, the lighter weight slugs aren't any heavier than the heavy diabolo pellets. But I think they have much higher release pressure. The whole idea behind the diabolo pellet design is that they provide a good seal with much less friction / release pressure than bullets, and can be effectively shot with the meagre pressure / energy of coilspring guns. I would assume shooting slugs severely shortens spring life.

With gasrams, pellet weight or resistance should be a non-issue, durability-wise. I think that is the only advantage of gasrams over coilsprings. The same of course applies to PCPs.

 

[gendoc]

i shot some NSA 12gr .178 slugs @ 700fps from a Hatsan striker edge at 35 yards, they did better than many type pellets i had at 35yrds.

 

[Just Zack 2]

Assuming you have a chronograph. Keep an eye on your energy levels during your testing. As I mentioned earlier a lower energy output is usually from lower efficiency. That loss of efficiency is usually due to excessive piston bounce which is definitely harder on springs. I'm not sure about gas rams.

You're a better man than I am for shooting monster piston guns. Especially in 177. They're usually so violent they're hard to shoot. I do understand your predicament though. Shooting skirted pellets at transonic speeds makes them very unstable.

Good luck with the slug experiments and please update this thread with your results. I'd be interested in your results.

I did some testing using a. 177 Hatsan 135 with a gas ram, think HW90 but on a shoestring budget, with a slightly longer stroke. The 12.5gr dished based projectiles seemed to be down on power compared to skirted pellets, 20-ish ftlbs w/slugs vs 24+ depending on pellet. Ended up having ok shorter range accuracy, but honestly I didn't shoot a bunch. I don't believe projectile weight or fitment were as much as an issue compared to the type of base, at least for the H135. I'll have to see if any slugs have a thinner, more skirt like base before I continue, the much thicker dish base slugs didn't seem to seal as well as they should.

 

[Mycapt65]

I did some testing using a. 177 Hatsan 135 with a gas ram, think HW90 but on a shoestring budget, with a slightly longer stroke. The 12.5gr dished based projectiles seemed to be down on power compared to skirted pellets, 20-ish ftlbs w/slugs vs 24+ depending on pellet. Ended up having ok shorter range accuracy, but honestly I didn't shoot a bunch. I don't believe projectile weight or fitment were as much as an issue compared to the type of base, at least for the H135. I'll have to see if any slugs have a thinner, more skirt like base before I continue, the much thicker dish base slugs didn't seem to seal as well as they should.

I know Zero about Hatsans but Weihrauch has a choked breech area that sizes a pellet down to sizes that are some times too small for even skirted pellets. If Hatsan are similar barrels and loosen up past the breech slugs would seal badly. You can check the barrel by pushing a slug or pellet through it with a rod. That's called slugging a barrel in the PB world. I use a long brazing rod to slug barrels. It will tell you where the barrels tight or loose. Someone here posted a great video on the process.