Gamo Swarm Fusion 10X Gen2

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Stick to the Diana. Gamo QC is questionable at best and those stocks are godawful and the triggers are somehow even worse.
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Looks like a quote from someone who hasn't used a gamo in a while.
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Lol incorrect. I love how Gamo fan boys love to think people just talk smack on Gamo for no reason. They get hate for a reason.

I have 3 Gamos including a Gen 2 Swarm, a gen 1 swarm, and a gen 1 Magnum. The CAT trigger on the gen 2 is only slightly better than the old one and the stock is so blah its not even funny. The 460 Magnum is better in literally every single aspect.
 
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Thank you, I realize that The 460 would be better than any off-the-rack Gamo, but I am looking for my first rifle back into the hobby in almost 30 years. The Swarm had pretty good reviews across a couple of dealer sites and the only faults I saw on the Diana was its heavy and hard to cock (I.e. powerful?) 

I'm no expert shooter by any means just want a rifle I won't be totally disappointed in. My problem is I can't find any Diana model in stock anywhere. I saw a couple of used 48/52's one e bay but I've never bought anything on there so not sure it's a good idea.
 
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Thank you, I realize that The 460 would be better than any off-the-rack Gamo, but I am looking for my first rifle back into the hobby in almost 30 years. The Swarm had pretty good reviews across a couple of dealer sites and the only faults I saw on the Diana was its heavy and hard to cock (I.e. powerful?) 

I'm no expert shooter by any means just want a rifle I won't be totally disappointed in. My problem is I can't find any Diana model in stock anywhere. I saw a couple of used 48/52's one e bay but I've never bought anything on there so not sure it's a good idea.
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Gamo makes an ok beginner gun but are pretty hit or miss on the quality control. Skip the Swarm series as you're just asking for problems (trust me) and grab a single shot. They're more accurate anyway.

If you want something really good, grab a Weihrauch from Krale. My 22 97K is putting out 17fpe (Vortek PG4 kit with new piston seal) and will shoot sub moa at 50 yards when the weather allows.

An HW80 with a Vortex kit will put out upwards of 23ftlbs. Its over kill by all means but if you're looking for "oomph" thats the way to go. Personally I find 16-18fpe in a heavy springer to be the ideal mix of accuracy and power.
 
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Going to be a long post.......I have shot springers for over 30 years and they are for me preferred to a PCP. There is a sense of accomplishment and pride when you learn to shoot a Quality springer well. I do stress Quality springer. A quality springer will provide you with fun, a sense of accomplishment, and encouragement to fully enjoy the sport of air guns. A sub-standard box store springer will provide you with only disappointment, frustration and may well encourage you to totally forget the entire sport. Gamo is not a quality springer and will certainly provide you with aggravation and frustration. 

As for your accuracy expectations, even with years of practice and experience the average Gamo will provide you with a one inch group at 25 yards and as you increase the distance to 50 yards on average you can expect a 2.5 inch group. Even a high dollar best PCP will struggle on an average day to group just under 1.5 inches at 100 yards and it must be a calm day with no wind.

I have one Gamo that is an exception, however the key word is exception and that rifle takes 110 percent concentration and self discipline to shoot well. As I have said Gamo is not quality, they are overall a formula for frustration and disappointment. The average shooter will not do well with them. If you are mind set on a Gamo, I would step out on a limb and say the Gamo Bone Collector is FAIR. With lots of practice and finding the right pellet for the particular rifle, one inch groups at 25 to 30 yards can be expected. Still at 50 you can expect 1.5 or larger groups.....they are what they are.

Now the Diana 460. If you can find one it is now a quite the expensive rifle. On average 600 dollars. I have one and it is around six years old now and has had well over 5000 pellets through it. I have had my share of problems with it. The cocking lever pin has broken twice. So if you get one order two or three lever pins and have a spare on hand. Also the little metal attachment with the hole in it for the cocking lever pin called the Latch Pin also broke one time. The 460 was dead for three or four months as I searched and searched for a new part. The rifle also has to be totally torn down to replace that Latch Pin. The rear safety is made of pot metal and it also broke and part of it went flying never to be seen again. So once again an order overseas to I think it was Chambers to get a replacement. The stock screws will vibrate loose even with Blue thread lock on every screw you can find. Is it accurate, yes it sure is, you can expect one inch and smaller groups at 50 yards, consistently, each time every time. It is also quite heavy and is more or less a bench gun, if you are going to carry it much for very long, a sling will be required.

My personal recommendation for any beginning air gunner depending on what you wish to use one for comes down to two rifles. The HW97 and the HW95. The 97 is heavy, however it is laser accurate and very well balanced. Dime sized groups at that 50 yard range can be expected. The 97 is also much less hold sensitive than most and more forgiving as you learn. It is compared to the 460 also expensive and heavy. However it is three times the rifle over the 460. (My opinion)

The HW95 and or the Beeman R9 would be my choice for an all around, suited for everything air rifle. It is just as accurate as the 97.....however it is a bit hold sensitive and does take more practice and better concentration to shoot equally well with it. Having said that right out of the box and with a shooter who has never shot an air rifle springer, one inch groups at 25 yards can be expected, with practice and so on once again well under one inch groups at 50 can be expected. This is the rifle that will cement a love for the air gun sport from the start. It is a quality rifle, has great accuracy, is light enough to lug around if you like to hunt and if you use the GTO 11.75 pellet you will get on average 18 FPE and average 812 FPS or better. Put a PG4 Vortex in it and you are at 22 FPE.

Finally magnum springers are hard to shoot. The slightest lack of concentration, the slightest change in hold, closing one eye tighter than the other will affect your accuracy. Standard power quality springers are a joy to shoot. They also have adequate power for hunting if you wish to do that.

Overall 50 yards is a good range for your expectations. Provided you do not try it with a Gamo. Grin!



Cheers

Kit








 
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Mr. Kit is bang on. I guess I would want to know what caliber you are thinking of. The larger the caliber the less “hold sensitive “ the rifle is. The HW97 or HW95 are the best choice “imho” on the market. I have both. Both .22 caliber. I enjoy the 95 the most. If you are thinking of .177 and weight is no issue then absolutely the HW97 is the best option. I have a friend that has the Diana 460 and he has had nothing but headaches from it. That rifle doesn’t even compare to the 97.
 
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Thank you for all of this great information. This is what I joined up for 😀. I really want to stay around the 300$ point. 

I'm not quite a first-time shooter but it has been a while. Partly luck but because I called it beforehand it counts, I poop the ass off a housefly at 25yrds with a Daisy 1100 pump rifle lol. I was looking at Germans also, so that may be an option. 

Again thanks for the feedback and look forward to letting y'all know what I end up with.
 
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Best entry level airgun IMHO. I have tuned so many. They are accurate and solid hard hitting airguns. Hatsan 95 and 135. The 95 in .22 cal gets around 800 FPS with Crosman Premier HP’s and the 135 over 1000 FPS. German steel and Turkish Walnut. Not made in CHINA! Made in Turkey. The 95 is under $200 and the 135 under $300.
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Best entry level airgun IMHO. I have tuned so many. They are accurate and solid hard hitting airguns. Hatsan 95 and 135. The 95 in .22 cal gets around 800 FPS with Crosman Premier HP’s and the 135 over 1000 FPS. German steel and Turkish Walnut. Not made in CHINA! Made in Turkey. The 95 is under $200 and the 135 under $300.
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Thank you for that. Do you know where they might be available, and are they ready for scope mounts?
 
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Best entry level airgun IMHO. I have tuned so many. They are accurate and solid hard hitting airguns. Hatsan 95 and 135. The 95 in .22 cal gets around 800 FPS with Crosman Premier HP’s and the 135 over 1000 FPS. German steel and Turkish Walnut. Not made in CHINA! Made in Turkey. The 95 is under $200 and the 135 under $300.
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Thank you for that. Do you know where they might be available, and are they ready for scope mounts?
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Hatsans are low end budget guns. They have just as many problems as the Gamos do. If you can afford better, buy better. Yes they can be tuned and fiddled with all day but unless you are familiar with them they are a pain to work on. Those "Turkish walnut" stocks are also pretty underwhelming in person.
 
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Everybody wants a German quality rifle for a China price. I have bought nearly a dozen Hatsan 95’s and 135’s over the past 6-8 years. One had a slow leak in the Vortex. Hatsan sent me one right out. I’ve given them away to friends and it got them into the hobby. I worked on the China, Turkey, German, English and more over the past 40 years. Lots of videos out there to learn how to tune these. Not difficult at all. If a budget will not get one into a German rifle (and they have issues also) then this is my recommendation.

I did not hand pick any of my Hatsan’s. All ordered online. I do not consider these “underwhelming’ stocks.

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Everybody wants a German quality rifle for a China price. I have bought nearly a dozen Hatsan 95’s and 135’s over the past 6-8 years. One had a slow leak in the Vortex. Hatsan sent me one right out. I’ve given them away to friends and it got them into the hobby. I worked on the China, Turkey, German, English and more over the past 40 years. Lots of videos out there to learn how to tune these. Not difficult at all. If a budget will not get one into a German rifle (and they have issues also) then this is my recommendation.

I did not hand pick any of my Hatsan’s. All ordered online. I do not consider these “underwhelming’ stocks.

The bottom one does look nice to me. Is that the 135? I obviously would live a 1000 dollar rifle but am not in that league right now for a part time hobby. I work 6 nights a week so am just looking for something fairly accurate and not too troublesome. I know most entry-level guns are gonna have their issues so as long as they aren't expensive issues I can work with it.But on the other hand if someone would like to sell me a tunes German for 300$ I'm more than ready to PayPal 😅//www.w3.org/2000/svg%22%20viewBox=%220%200%20210%20140%22%3E%3C/svg%3E



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Everybody wants a German quality rifle for a China price. I have bought nearly a dozen Hatsan 95’s and 135’s over the past 6-8 years. One had a slow leak in the Vortex. Hatsan sent me one right out. I’ve given them away to friends and it got them into the hobby. I worked on the China, Turkey, German, English and more over the past 40 years. Lots of videos out there to learn how to tune these. Not difficult at all. If a budget will not get one into a German rifle (and they have issues also) then this is my recommendation.

I did not hand pick any of my Hatsan’s. All ordered online. I do not consider these “underwhelming’ stocks.

3B1328F8-C142-4380-AD86-527D9A0CD5F8.1640210338.jpeg
//www.w3.org/2000/svg%22%20viewBox=%220%200%20210%20140%22%3E%3C/svg%3E
27066EE6-9B4D-4CCE-97AC-88E981E34EA0.1640210405.jpeg
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He was willing to pay for a 460... They Hatsan 95s are a $100 rifle and it shoots like a $100 rifle. The 135 is a near $300 rifle that shoots like a $100 rifle. Putting out 30fpe doesnt make it something special. Recommending that he stick to the Weihrauchs and stay away from Hatsan and Gamo are 100% in his best interest. It's his money though so thats the last I will say on the matter. A 97K, which is arguably the best of the best is $500 shipped to his door.
 
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It is true that the original post led us to think the budget was more in line with a HW97. That was my original suggestion as well. When the budget became under 300 with a scope my suggestion went to Hatsan. The $500 HW97 with a modest $150 scope and rings and a $100 tune kit just became a $750 pellet gun. I well remember when i could only afford a $69 Sheridan. I respect him for what he would like to spend. I’m not pushing anyone into anything. Just my opinion.

I’ve gutted and tuned almost every spring piston model Weihrauch has made for the last 50 years. I’ve done the same on Hatsan’s striker, stingray, 95 spring, 95 vortex and 135 vortex. I honestly can say that no particular one is significantly easier to dismantle, tune and reassemble.

There certainly is more risk of getting dud when we go to an entry level anything. I think we all know that. I’m sorry some have had bad experiences with their Hatsan’s.

The HW97 is a fine choice. It’s not however the “be all end all” of airguns.
 
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