GAMO Coyote Whisper vs. Benjamin Marauder: help with selecting my first PCP

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ArmyBiker

ArmyBiker

Member
May 22, 2017
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Oklahoma
I am brand-spanking new to the forum. I DID search for this specific topic, prior to starting the string and was somewhat surprised not to find a discussion thread... but WTH do I know?? I'm a PCP newbie. A pistol/rifle and spring pellet gun veteran. I've killed over 60 squirrels with my old GAMO 1000fps. But... it's not as accurate as it used to be. AND - it's LOUD as hell! I've moved into a tighter neighborhood -- and now I'm on the hunt for essentially 4 things:
  • QUIET shooting in my backyard
  • ACCURACY: A gun (like my other firearms) that will "outshoot me". I need something that will print bullet holes over bullet holes -- if I'm steady enough to make the shot. (I like head-shooting squirrels in particular.)
  • KILLING POWER: that GAMO 1000 fps with .17 certainly had enough zip to dispatch dozens of squirrels & "bad birds"... particularly once I started using the nylon tipped pellets. I figured with my new PCP -- I'd step it up to .22 (unless you airgun veterans want to talk me out of it)
  • PRICE: Because I'm an accuracy fanatic -- I've got some pals wanting me to spend $2-3000 on an Olympic Match Grade rifle. That's more piggy bank moola than I want to spend. I'd like to keep myself at or under $1000 for the package. Not counting the tank 
I'm not completely set on the Coyote or the Marauder -- but both seem in my price range and would seem to meet my basic requirements. I've had difficulty locating any kind of chart that compares loudness among the PCP rifles. I've seen a number of such reviews for the spring systems.

Last -- any advice you'd have on favorite optics for the new toy... would be appreciated. I like seeing the hairs on on their furry heads before I squeeze off that trigger.
 
With a 1000 dollar budget for just the gun, I would recommend a daystate regal. AOA has them for 999 and what I read, it use to be a 1700 gun years ago. 
I never shoot or held a daystate but everyone who has one loves the gun.

If you have time, you could look in the classifieds for a used gun. People are always upgrading to other guns and sell their guns for a great price. I was able to score a bsa r10 at a great deal.

But if you are set on a .22 mrod, you would have to do some work to get it shooting great. You might have to get a match grade barrel but you might get lucky with an accurate factory barrel. Then there is a reg and tuning the gun. The tuning part you could do yourself by purchasing a chronograph or send it to someone to tune it.
No clue about the gamo coyote but I heard they are good guns too.
 
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I own a Gen 2 Marauder. I like it a lot. It has plusses and minuses as all guns do. I can't compare to a Coyote as I don't have one, but can give my opinion on a Marauder.

1. Would I buy one again, yes, absolutely. It's an incredible entry level PCP. I also bought the Crosman 1701P Pistol (Yes, I like Crosman products).
2. Plusses - QUIET. Internally designed sound suppression is excellent. Under 90 decibels. Accurate. I've been happy with the accuracy. At an indoor range, so no wind, I was hitting 10 shot, 3/4 inch groups off a bipod. I'm a lousy shot, so most of the variation is probably me. Shooting Benjamin Premier 14.3 domes (.22 caliber). It runs at around 900 fps, keeping it subsonic which helps accuracy. Also, shoots cheap pellets, the Premier Domes. Other pellets shoot, but the best I've seen so far are the domes at around $10 per 500 or less with specials. This setup provides around 20 foot pounds energy at the muzzle.

I bought the pump originally, and have to say, ditch the pump if you have a paintball or scuba shop close by and use a bottle. They run $300 ish for a new bottle but rather than spend $200 for a pump and getting disgusted with the pump and replacing with the tank, just get the tank to start with.

Other plusses include magazines under $20, synthetic is an excellent stock, tried and true design, and Benjamin added a "Depinger" to this model so I don't need to add one. I get about 40 shots per fill, so not as many shots as one might want, but enough to keep me happy.

3. Marauder minuses. Yes, there are a few because it's a $400 gun. Heavy. At 7ish pounds without a scope, it starts off fairly heavy. Add a scope and you can be around 10 pounds fairly quickly. Long at 42 inches. I'm not all that tall at under 6 foot, so a long gun can be difficult for me to swing around. Also, no open sights included, it's designed for a scope only.

4. Glass - Don't scrimp, that's all I'll say. Glass can move to other guns when you move up. Scope depends on your use. I have a 4-14 FFP scope that works extremely well and it was under $250. It's a side focus down to 10 yards. If you get a parallax adjustable scope, make sure it goes down to 10 or 15 yards. Lots only go down to 50, and most fixed parallax scopes are 50 or 100 yard focus. There's a whole discussion on Parallax in another thread. Lots of good info on Youtube as well.

You do NOT need an airgun rated scope for a PCP. Only springers need the airgun rated scopes to ensure they hold zero with the crazy recoil springers have.

So, 
Marauder $539 on Crosman.com. Use the AGNATION code on checkout for a 25% discount makes the gun $405. Order on Friday's and it's free shipping.
Tank around $300 on Pyramyd or Airgundepot
That leaves $300ish for glass, pellets, bipod, and anything else you need.

You can bring it in for under a Grand or so.

I will state that this is, in my opinion, a great 25 to 50 yard gun. I have not stretched it to 100 yards yet. Can't say anything about 100 yard ranges, but at 25, really accurate. couldn't recommend as a 100 yard gun just because I don't know.

It's also no FX Impact. It's accurate, but comparing a $400 gun to a $1900 gun is a bit unfair, but it ain't no impact. Don't expect nailing fleas at 100 yards out of the box. Be reasonable in your expectations.

Now, if a coyote owner could speak up, I'd like to see how much they love their gun. I suspect you really can't go wrong with either gun. 


 
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Oh and I forgot one more thing about the Marauder. It's highly adjustable. There are entire forums dedicated to tuning a marauder. You will need a chrony to do that, but it is, with quite a bit of effort, very adjustable.

I tried to adjust without a chrony and ended up back at factory settings. The factory settings worked, but if you are a tinkerer, it can be tinkered with.
 
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The Marauder would be my choice. As to 177 vs 22 vs 25 I would go with a 25 tuned down but there is nothing wrong with a .22 with what you are looking to use it for.
the larger pellet will let you shoot slower while keeping the same impact power this means a quieter gun. The Maruader has a lot of online DIY Tuning and Mods information and guides and they can be made very quite. You cannot go wrong with the trigger assembly just so much goes with it
 
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Welcome to the forum!
I'd go with the .22 Marauder-if you get a bad barrel (my factory barrel is fantastic) you can get an aftermarket one from Marmot Militia. You can tune for lower fill pressure to conserve on air-mine is set up at 21ish ft. lbs. (740 fps with an 18 gr. pellet) and easily takes squirrels at 65-75 yards under reasonable wind conditions. The .25s are all accurate BUT use a lot of air and get very few shots per fill (16).
The Coyote is made by BSA and will likely have an excellent barrel. The higher fill pressure it requires kind of puts me off recommending it as a first PCP unless you can afford to spring for the carbon fiber tank set up. The Marauder is a little piggish weight wise, so if you climb hills and walk long distances on your hunts you may want look for something lighter. The Air Arms/CZ s200 Hunter is a sweet little accurate gun that has a lower operating pressure making it Pump or Scuba tank friendly. You will need a moderator to quiet it down if you want it mousefart quiet.
As to fill set ups, if there are dive shops in your area you might look for a used scuba tank. I got mine from a guy who does hydro testing for $125 each.Don't buy a carbon fiber tank until you're sure you can get it filled.
Something you'll want sooner or later is a chronograph-I like the Prochrono which is around $100. If you reload you probably already have a chrono. Even if you don't adjust the gun it's helpful to know what fill pressure gives you the best results. Most unregulated PCPs if set up correctly will start at a certain velocity and climb to a peak, than drop down as the pressure in the reservoir drops. Over or under filling the gun will waste air and mess with your accuracy.
I like Hawke scopes and also Aeons which have very fine reticles and lots of aim points for holdover. Whatever scope you get make sure it has adjustable focus/parralax and a mil-dot or other multiple aim point reticle as the airguns have a loopier trajectory than a firearm.
Good luck and shoot safe.
John
 
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"wyshadow"With a 1000 dollar budget for just the gun, I would recommend a daystate regal. AOA has them for 999 and what I read, it use to be a 1700 gun years ago. 
I never shoot or held a daystate but everyone who has one loves the gun.

If you have time, you could look in the classifieds for a used gun. People are always upgrading to other guns and sell their guns for a great price. I was able to score a bsa r10 at a great deal.

But if you are set on a .22 mrod, you would have to do some work to get it shooting great. You might have to get a match grade barrel but you might get lucky with an accurate factory barrel. Then there is a reg and tuning the gun. The tuning part you could do yourself by purchasing a chronograph or send it to someone to tune it.
No clue about the gamo coyote but I heard they are good guns too.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the comments! I'll eyeball the Daystate. Good thoughts regarding checking out used guns. Hadn't thought about that. I get a little itchy, though, buying any used gun without handling it first. I'll ponder it. Also - interesting intel on needing to tune the .22. I presume the .17s don't require that? That could push me back to .17... plus I'm seeing some comments that the .22 are louder than .17. I suppose related to the larger volume of air bolus associated with the expulsion of the projectile?
 
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"Saltlake58"I own a Gen 2 Marauder. I like it a lot. It has plusses and minuses as all guns do. I can't compare to a Coyote as I don't have one, but can give my opinion on a Marauder.

1. Would I buy one again, yes, absolutely. It's an incredible entry level PCP. I also bought the Crosman 1701P Pistol (Yes, I like Crosman products).
2. Plusses - QUIET. Internally designed sound suppression is excellent. Under 90 decibels. Accurate. I've been happy with the accuracy. At an indoor range, so no wind, I was hitting 10 shot, 3/4 inch groups off a bipod. I'm a lousy shot, so most of the variation is probably me. Shooting Benjamin Premier 14.3 domes (.22 caliber). It runs at around 900 fps, keeping it subsonic which helps accuracy. Also, shoots cheap pellets, the Premier Domes. Other pellets shoot, but the best I've seen so far are the domes at around $10 per 500 or less with specials. This setup provides around 20 foot pounds energy at the muzzle.

I bought the pump originally, and have to say, ditch the pump if you have a paintball or scuba shop close by and use a bottle. They run $300 ish for a new bottle but rather than spend $200 for a pump and getting disgusted with the pump and replacing with the tank, just get the tank to start with.

Other plusses include magazines under $20, synthetic is an excellent stock, tried and true design, and Benjamin added a "Depinger" to this model so I don't need to add one. I get about 40 shots per fill, so not as many shots as one might want, but enough to keep me happy.

3. Marauder minuses. Yes, there are a few because it's a $400 gun. Heavy. At 7ish pounds without a scope, it starts off fairly heavy. Add a scope and you can be around 10 pounds fairly quickly. Long at 42 inches. I'm not all that tall at under 6 foot, so a long gun can be difficult for me to swing around. Also, no open sights included, it's designed for a scope only.

4. Glass - Don't scrimp, that's all I'll say. Glass can move to other guns when you move up. Scope depends on your use. I have a 4-14 FFP scope that works extremely well and it was under $250. It's a side focus down to 10 yards. If you get a parallax adjustable scope, make sure it goes down to 10 or 15 yards. Lots only go down to 50, and most fixed parallax scopes are 50 or 100 yard focus. There's a whole discussion on Parallax in another thread. Lots of good info on Youtube as well.

You do NOT need an airgun rated scope for a PCP. Only springers need the airgun rated scopes to ensure they hold zero with the crazy recoil springers have.

So, 
Marauder $539 on Crosman.com. Use the AGNATION code on checkout for a 25% discount makes the gun $405. Order on Friday's and it's free shipping.
Tank around $300 on Pyramyd or Airgundepot
That leaves $300ish for glass, pellets, bipod, and anything else you need.

You can bring it in for under a Grand or so.

I will state that this is, in my opinion, a great 25 to 50 yard gun. I have not stretched it to 100 yards yet. Can't say anything about 100 yard ranges, but at 25, really accurate. couldn't recommend as a 100 yard gun just because I don't know.

It's also no FX Impact. It's accurate, but comparing a $400 gun to a $1900 gun is a bit unfair, but it ain't no impact. Don't expect nailing fleas at 100 yards out of the box. Be reasonable in your expectations.

Now, if a coyote owner could speak up, I'd like to see how much they love their gun. I suspect you really can't go wrong with either gun. 


Click to expand...
Right on SaltLake! I appreciate the robust commentary and experience. Loads-o-good stuff there for me to make use of. Thanks for your time.
 
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"Saltlake58"Oh and I forgot one more thing about the Marauder. It's highly adjustable. There are entire forums dedicated to tuning a marauder. You will need a chrony to do that, but it is, with quite a bit of effort, very adjustable.

I tried to adjust without a chrony and ended up back at factory settings. The factory settings worked, but if you are a tinkerer, it can be tinkered with.
Click to expand...
Roger that. I'm probably more of a shooter than a tinkerer... although I'm willing to invest a lot of time to be sure I get the more accurate set-up. With one of my 308's I went through probably 10 different kinds of ammo refining the best grouping.
 
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"Willie14228"The Marauder would be my choice. As to 177 vs 22 vs 25 I would go with a 25 tuned down but there is nothing wrong with a .22 with what you are looking to use it for.
the larger pellet will let you shoot slower while keeping the same impact power this means a quieter gun. The Maruader has a lot of online DIY Tuning and Mods information and guides and they can be made very quite. You cannot go wrong with the trigger assembly just so much goes with it
Click to expand...
Thanks for the comments!! So far - Marauder seems to be winning in this conversation!
 
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"Deja"Sup coyote in .22 here, great barrel, tons of noise unless silenced version, good magazine. Solid build. trigger is not bad but a bit heavy and tons of creep.
Click to expand...
Helpful comments. Thank you. Do they sell after-market match triggers for these things? Be handy if the industry would do what AR-15s have done and standardize for drop-in trigger changes.
 
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"JohnL57"Welcome to the forum!
I'd go with the .22 Marauder-if you get a bad barrel (my factory barrel is fantastic) you can get an aftermarket one from Marmot Militia. You can tune for lower fill pressure to conserve on air-mine is set up at 21ish ft. lbs. (740 fps with an 18 gr. pellet) and easily takes squirrels at 65-75 yards under reasonable wind conditions. The .25s are all accurate BUT use a lot of air and get very few shots per fill (16).
The Coyote is made by BSA and will likely have an excellent barrel. The higher fill pressure it requires kind of puts me off recommending it as a first PCP unless you can afford to spring for the carbon fiber tank set up. The Marauder is a little piggish weight wise, so if you climb hills and walk long distances on your hunts you may want look for something lighter. The Air Arms/CZ s200 Hunter is a sweet little accurate gun that has a lower operating pressure making it Pump or Scuba tank friendly. You will need a moderator to quiet it down if you want it mousefart quiet.
As to fill set ups, if there are dive shops in your area you might look for a used scuba tank. I got mine from a guy who does hydro testing for $125 each.Don't buy a carbon fiber tank until you're sure you can get it filled.
Something you'll want sooner or later is a chronograph-I like the Prochrono which is around $100. If you reload you probably already have a chrono. Even if you don't adjust the gun it's helpful to know what fill pressure gives you the best results. Most unregulated PCPs if set up correctly will start at a certain velocity and climb to a peak, than drop down as the pressure in the reservoir drops. Over or under filling the gun will waste air and mess with your accuracy.
I like Hawke scopes and also Aeons which have very fine reticles and lots of aim points for holdover. Whatever scope you get make sure it has adjustable focus/parralax and a mil-dot or other multiple aim point reticle as the airguns have a loopier trajectory than a firearm.
Good luck and shoot safe.
John
Click to expand...
Thank you for the thoughtful comments John. Loads of good information for me there. Marauder still appears on top. Thanks for the welcome to the forum. I never dreamed I'd get so many helpful comments so quickly. Great idea on the used SCUBA tank. I've got several dive shops around me. I'll start calling around - and maybe check eBay as well.
How quiet do you think this Marauder will be in .22 compared to my old springer .17 GAMO? (It seems extra-loud to me)
 
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After-market triggers? My experience, not really. The triggers are integral in the mechanism for the most part. Some folks remove the "Lawyer Spring" on the marauder to make it a single stage trigger, but to be honest, I've been happy with my trigger. It's crisp enough for my use. It's a hunting gun, so the trigger is a bit heavier than a bench gun, but if I remember correctly, the trigger is also adjustable, to a point.

Also, as for .22 vs .177 adjustments, virtually all PCP's are adjustable, regardless of caliber, though it might not be required depending on how your gun comes from the factory. I did try to adjust mine, but just returned to factory settings as they were close enough for that time in my shooting career.

The expensive guns, like the impact, will have hammer spring, regulator and another adjustment. The Marauder isn't a regulated gun, so no regulator adjustment.

Adjustments are all up to you whether you do them or not.

 
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"Saltlake58"After-market triggers? My experience, not really. The triggers are integral in the mechanism for the most part. Some folks remove the "Lawyer Spring" on the marauder to make it a single stage trigger, but to be honest, I've been happy with my trigger. It's crisp enough for my use. It's a hunting gun, so the trigger is a bit heavier than a bench gun, but if I remember correctly, the trigger is also adjustable, to a point.

Also, as for .22 vs .177 adjustments, virtually all PCP's are adjustable, regardless of caliber, though it might not be required depending on how your gun comes from the factory. I did try to adjust mine, but just returned to factory settings as they were close enough for that time in my shooting career.

The expensive guns, like the impact, will have hammer spring, regulator and another adjustment. The Marauder isn't a regulated gun, so no regulator adjustment.

Adjustments are all up to you whether you do them or not.

Click to expand...
Sounds like the factory trigger on the Marauder is a two-stage adjustable match trigger. So that should fix me right up.
​As for the "regulator" -- I think I'm just too PCP-naive to really understand just what that means. You being the Crosman fan... I've been eyeballing their website since you turned me on to it. In addition to the Marauder... after the groovy 25% discount, I see they also have a Marauder Field and Target (.22)(Model: BP2264RW)For a mere extra $70 or so, that comes with a "regulator" (Whatever the H that is) which is:
  • Field & Target regulator, featuring on/off capability
Sounds like that would give me some additional future flexibility if I turn into a card-carrying air-gun nut. (Said with the deepest respect for fellow gun-nuts!!)
My last question for your (and other reader's) sage advice relates to the differences between Marauder & the Marauder F&T. From what I understand the current Marauder I would be on Crosman is considered a Gen-2 Marauder. If the Marauder F&T was a Gen-1 iteration... that might give me more pause. And frankly -- the F&T might be more "fancy" than I need.
 
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Highly oversimplified explanation:

In an unregulated gun, the hammer hits the valve and lets air out to push the pellet down the barrel. Really simple, but the amount of air can vary with the fill pressure. 3000 PSI pressure = more air, and higher Feet per second. In reality, there's a sweet spot where air volume is relatively consistent.

In a regulated gun, it has an extra gizmo that only lets out a given amount of air, no matter what the fill pressure, (until the pressure drops below the regulator settings.). The sweet spot is usually longer, and less air is wasted = more shots per fill, more consistent performance, and usually, better accuracy, though not always.

Regulators give more consistent performance across the shot string.

And I also thought the Field and Target model was canned. That's news to me. I might have to take a look. . . . . .
 
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