Ha! Ed -- YES!! My head is spinning. Loads-o-info. I feel like the old Lost in Space robot ... "processing .... processing"
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GAMO Coyote Whisper vs. Benjamin Marauder: help with selecting my first PCP
- Thread starter ArmyBiker
- Start date
After digesting all this info (and staying up wayyyy tooo late) here are my thoughts:
WIN -- I've *almost* decided to buy the Marauder
-- Regulator?? The back of my brain is thinking about boosting my budget
to get a PCP that has an integrated regulator
** Any reactions? I think the idea of preserving air per shot & less variability/"rainbow"
is creeping in my head.
** The Air Arms S510 is sexy as hell -- but is it regulated?
** I've had someone PM me with the offer to buy their S410. Came with some
extra stuff, but the package not far from the price of a new (no-scope) S510.
CALIBER -- I'm still thinking about the .22 -- but would be interested in pros/cons of .22 vs. .25.
-- My newbie mind figures .25 is more punch than I probably need, will use air faster,
and likely will be louder.
SCOPE -- With newfound knowledge that I can use regular rifle scopes on these PCP air rifles...
-- I don't need to buy a scope
-- I'm a "good-glass" freak & have a bunch-o-scopes lying around that I could simply
pop onto my new air rifle.
-- So... suddenly combo packages (new or used), have less appeal for me.
TANK --
-- If I get the Marauder... cheaper SCUBA tanks would be back in play (3000PSI)
- Refills only $8 near home
-- Carbon fiber 4500PSI would give me future flexibility and be more portable in the field
- Refill price TBD, but Saltlake quoted at $45 (I'll check out paintball joints tomorrow)
DETAILS -- beginning to ponder things like connectors from the tank to the gun fill-port
-- What do else do I NEED to buy at time of purchase for the Marauder?
-- How do I know which adapter to get for SCUBA vs. Brand X carbon fiber?
-- Beyond the adapter - is there high-pressure tubing as well?
Ha -- so much I figure I don't yet know.
THANKS AGAIN for the amazing support of this group! Wonderful stuff here at AGN.
WIN -- I've *almost* decided to buy the Marauder
-- Regulator?? The back of my brain is thinking about boosting my budget
to get a PCP that has an integrated regulator
** Any reactions? I think the idea of preserving air per shot & less variability/"rainbow"
is creeping in my head.
** The Air Arms S510 is sexy as hell -- but is it regulated?
** I've had someone PM me with the offer to buy their S410. Came with some
extra stuff, but the package not far from the price of a new (no-scope) S510.
CALIBER -- I'm still thinking about the .22 -- but would be interested in pros/cons of .22 vs. .25.
-- My newbie mind figures .25 is more punch than I probably need, will use air faster,
and likely will be louder.
SCOPE -- With newfound knowledge that I can use regular rifle scopes on these PCP air rifles...
-- I don't need to buy a scope
-- I'm a "good-glass" freak & have a bunch-o-scopes lying around that I could simply
pop onto my new air rifle.
-- So... suddenly combo packages (new or used), have less appeal for me.
TANK --
-- If I get the Marauder... cheaper SCUBA tanks would be back in play (3000PSI)
- Refills only $8 near home
-- Carbon fiber 4500PSI would give me future flexibility and be more portable in the field
- Refill price TBD, but Saltlake quoted at $45 (I'll check out paintball joints tomorrow)
DETAILS -- beginning to ponder things like connectors from the tank to the gun fill-port
-- What do else do I NEED to buy at time of purchase for the Marauder?
-- How do I know which adapter to get for SCUBA vs. Brand X carbon fiber?
-- Beyond the adapter - is there high-pressure tubing as well?
Ha -- so much I figure I don't yet know.
THANKS AGAIN for the amazing support of this group! Wonderful stuff here at AGN.
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Reasons for a Gen 2 marauder. The big upgrade people were doing on the Gen 1 was the, "Anti bounce back" thing. Basically, the hammer is driven forward into the valve, hits the valve to release the air, then the hammer bounces back. Sometimes, the hammer would bounce into the back of the gun so hard, it'd bounce forward again, hit the valve and release a little more air. Gen 2 has an "Anti Bounceback" built in.
Then there's the "Ping" of the gun. From what I can tell, the Marauder has a fairly unique sound that is from the air valve. You really can't use moderator to solve that one. Again, I don't have a Coyote, so can't compare. If you get on YouTube and listen to Marauders vs other guns you'll probably hear what I mean about the ping. Give it a listen
Then there's the "Ping" of the gun. From what I can tell, the Marauder has a fairly unique sound that is from the air valve. You really can't use moderator to solve that one. Again, I don't have a Coyote, so can't compare. If you get on YouTube and listen to Marauders vs other guns you'll probably hear what I mean about the ping. Give it a listen
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WIN — S510 does not appear to be regulated.
CALIBER — .22 much less expensive to shoot than .25 and at 25 yards to 50 yards, I personally don't see the difference for targets and nuisance birds.
SCOPE — You will need new rings is my bet. Air rifles are 11mm dovetails (3/8 inch) rather than the Weaver or Picitinny rails you are used to. Check the gun specs to be sure. My Marauder is 11 mm..
TANK — 4500 PSI Refill at my local shop is $5. The $40 was for the 5 year hydro test.
DETAILS — beginning to ponder things like connectors from the tank to the gun fill-port
— What do else do I NEED to buy at time of purchase for the Marauder?
Pellets - Crosman Premier Domes (seem to shoot best from my gun)
JSB Jumbo's to give a try. I've never used them but most people swear by them.
— How do I know which adapter to get for SCUBA vs. Brand X carbon fiber?
The Air Venturi Carbon Fiber 90 Cubic Inch tank is $350 on Pyramyd and Airgun depot. Prices went up since I bought mine. Comes with all adapters needed. http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_Venturi_Carbon_Fiber_Air_Tank_Fill_Station_4500_PSI_90_Cu_In/4708
— Beyond the adapter – is there high-pressure tubing as well? - Everything is included with this tank.
So, you need:
Gun
Scope
11 mm Dovetail Rings
Fill Station (tank)
Pellets
Safety Gear including (standard Range stuff):
Eye Protection
Hearing Protection - Yes, even with a Marauder it's nice to have hearing protection even though technically you probably don't need it.
Targets (whatever you feel like). I like things like Nilla Wafers because they break and birds clean up the mess.
Some place to shoot.
I think that about covers it.
The S510 fit and finish will be light years ahead of the lower end guns. Reviews say they are deadly accurate. Check out YouTube for reviews and they'll usually do a 50 yard and maybe even a 100 yard accuracy test. That may play into your decision. I've never stretched my Marauder to 100 yards, so not sure about accuracy at that range. 50 yards is good, not sure at 100. The 510 might be a better long range shooter. Too many choices! But you can't go wrong whatever you buy.
Nice part is that once you have the tanks, the next gun is just the price of the gun! (You will be addicted)
CALIBER — .22 much less expensive to shoot than .25 and at 25 yards to 50 yards, I personally don't see the difference for targets and nuisance birds.
SCOPE — You will need new rings is my bet. Air rifles are 11mm dovetails (3/8 inch) rather than the Weaver or Picitinny rails you are used to. Check the gun specs to be sure. My Marauder is 11 mm..
TANK — 4500 PSI Refill at my local shop is $5. The $40 was for the 5 year hydro test.
DETAILS — beginning to ponder things like connectors from the tank to the gun fill-port
— What do else do I NEED to buy at time of purchase for the Marauder?
Pellets - Crosman Premier Domes (seem to shoot best from my gun)
JSB Jumbo's to give a try. I've never used them but most people swear by them.
— How do I know which adapter to get for SCUBA vs. Brand X carbon fiber?
The Air Venturi Carbon Fiber 90 Cubic Inch tank is $350 on Pyramyd and Airgun depot. Prices went up since I bought mine. Comes with all adapters needed. http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_Venturi_Carbon_Fiber_Air_Tank_Fill_Station_4500_PSI_90_Cu_In/4708
— Beyond the adapter – is there high-pressure tubing as well? - Everything is included with this tank.
So, you need:
Gun
Scope
11 mm Dovetail Rings
Fill Station (tank)
Pellets
Safety Gear including (standard Range stuff):
Eye Protection
Hearing Protection - Yes, even with a Marauder it's nice to have hearing protection even though technically you probably don't need it.
Targets (whatever you feel like). I like things like Nilla Wafers because they break and birds clean up the mess.
Some place to shoot.
I think that about covers it.
The S510 fit and finish will be light years ahead of the lower end guns. Reviews say they are deadly accurate. Check out YouTube for reviews and they'll usually do a 50 yard and maybe even a 100 yard accuracy test. That may play into your decision. I've never stretched my Marauder to 100 yards, so not sure about accuracy at that range. 50 yards is good, not sure at 100. The 510 might be a better long range shooter. Too many choices! But you can't go wrong whatever you buy.
Nice part is that once you have the tanks, the next gun is just the price of the gun! (You will be addicted)
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Brilliant idea. Don't know why I didn't think of a YouTube comparison. I'll check that out too!
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Saltlake - you have been gracious with your time and detailed with your replies. You've just about got me square.
THANKS MAN!!
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You'll outgrow a 90 cu in tank the first time you have to decide to fine tune which ever gun you decide on. Go to Airtanksforsale, and check out what they have. Also if you just give Joe a call there, he will be able to set you up with tank and gun.
I love my Mrod, but mine is .25, so I will not push caliber, but what I like most about it is that you can leave them stock which many do, or you can add to it once you figure out what you Real Shooting needs are, and I say that because often times needs change after you put the gun in you hands and you shoot it for a while.
I have the 74 cu ft tigershark tank and normally fills last me forever, but when I put the Mrod on the bench, I can drain that tank in a day or two making adjustments. Those 3000psi tanks are cool if you're only planning on filling to 2800 or so. I just know that when my psi in the tank gets to 3000psi, I end up having to top off my fill with my hand pump to get it to 3000psi, and I want that 200psi, maybe you don't think it matters now, but if you can aways think about what next...Set yourself up with a nice tank, then you're just buying it once. I'd take a Hill pump over that 90cu in tank,
I don't see mention of a chronograph in the what else do I need, and the chronograph is a very important piece to add, make sure and pick one of these up as well.
I love my Mrod, but mine is .25, so I will not push caliber, but what I like most about it is that you can leave them stock which many do, or you can add to it once you figure out what you Real Shooting needs are, and I say that because often times needs change after you put the gun in you hands and you shoot it for a while.
I have the 74 cu ft tigershark tank and normally fills last me forever, but when I put the Mrod on the bench, I can drain that tank in a day or two making adjustments. Those 3000psi tanks are cool if you're only planning on filling to 2800 or so. I just know that when my psi in the tank gets to 3000psi, I end up having to top off my fill with my hand pump to get it to 3000psi, and I want that 200psi, maybe you don't think it matters now, but if you can aways think about what next...Set yourself up with a nice tank, then you're just buying it once. I'd take a Hill pump over that 90cu in tank,
I don't see mention of a chronograph in the what else do I need, and the chronograph is a very important piece to add, make sure and pick one of these up as well.
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ArmyBiker - you just happened to hit an area where I claim to have knowledge. Glad to pass on what little I have! Just understand, I am BIASED towards the Marauder as I own one and do enjoy it. Do go to YouTube and watch a couple hours of videos. Select a few models and look them up. The S510 will show up fairly frequently as it's been around for quite a while. On the Marauders, make sure it's a Gen2 being reviewed as the Gen1's did have problems.
Good luck, but I don't think you can really make a mistake here no matter what you choose.
Just be sure to have realistic expectations. I can pretty much guarantee that an FX Impact will out-shoot a Marauder any day, but that's comparing a $400 gun to a $1900 gun. Try different pellets as different pellets will shoot differently. Think about saving for a Chronograph, or where you can borrow one for tuning. After you shoot a couple thousand rounds, you might want to tinker.
One final bit of advice. Clean the barrel then shoot 50 or so shots before going into accuracy testing. My barrel wasn't the cleanest in the world from the factory. Cleaning did improve accuracy in my case. Cleaning an Air Rifle is different from powder burners as you don't want to get any solvent or oil in the transfer port. Under the air pressures a PCS works at, it could ignite and blow your seals if not cause injury.
To clean, I personally use a six foot length of weed trimmer line folded in half. Push it from the end of the barrel towards the breach. when it's visible in the breach, put a lightly oiled cleaning patch in the loop and pull back through. Not a good idea to use a brass brush as there's an internal "O" ring that a brush might damage.
Just keep it up till the patch comes out fairly clean. Then run 40 or 50 rounds through it before evaluating accuracy. General feeling is that "Leading Up" the barrel allows the gun to settle in and be more consistent. one nice thing about air guns is that cleaning is very infrequent, only when accuracy falls off. No powder to foul the barrel or anything else, so much less cleaning.
Have fun is the most important thing.
Let us know what you decide.
Good luck, but I don't think you can really make a mistake here no matter what you choose.
Just be sure to have realistic expectations. I can pretty much guarantee that an FX Impact will out-shoot a Marauder any day, but that's comparing a $400 gun to a $1900 gun. Try different pellets as different pellets will shoot differently. Think about saving for a Chronograph, or where you can borrow one for tuning. After you shoot a couple thousand rounds, you might want to tinker.
One final bit of advice. Clean the barrel then shoot 50 or so shots before going into accuracy testing. My barrel wasn't the cleanest in the world from the factory. Cleaning did improve accuracy in my case. Cleaning an Air Rifle is different from powder burners as you don't want to get any solvent or oil in the transfer port. Under the air pressures a PCS works at, it could ignite and blow your seals if not cause injury.
To clean, I personally use a six foot length of weed trimmer line folded in half. Push it from the end of the barrel towards the breach. when it's visible in the breach, put a lightly oiled cleaning patch in the loop and pull back through. Not a good idea to use a brass brush as there's an internal "O" ring that a brush might damage.
Just keep it up till the patch comes out fairly clean. Then run 40 or 50 rounds through it before evaluating accuracy. General feeling is that "Leading Up" the barrel allows the gun to settle in and be more consistent. one nice thing about air guns is that cleaning is very infrequent, only when accuracy falls off. No powder to foul the barrel or anything else, so much less cleaning.
Have fun is the most important thing.
Let us know what you decide.
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KKarmical - Thanks for the comments and advice. I'll check out Airtanksforsale. I've pretty much decided on a 4500PSI tank. But you're saying size DOES matter?! LOL. Chronos were mentioned earlier in the string. That's not on my immediate list -- but I anticipate grabbing one of those at some point. If I go "unregulated" -- perhaps I should grab the chrono sooner than later.
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ArmyBiker. A word of warning on tanks. This is from personal experience, and literary happened to me today. I bought a tank based on a paintball place that told me they would fill it, I walked in & the guy looked at me square in the eyes and said "we can't fill that size. Make absolutely sure you have a reliable place to fill your tank.
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And make sure you specify "4500 PSI". I called ahead to a local shop as well and then when I got there he was only able to fill to about 3300.
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Well dang!! I watched a bunch o YouTube videos last night... and I am put off by that ping for urban shooting!!
Any opinions on AA S410 (used) vs. 510?? And I'm surprised I didn't see more moderators attached to the AA. I'd think that would make it EXTRA quiet. The 510 also seemed to eat anything you feed it, whereas Mrod looks like it likes what it likes (very specific brands/weights).
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I had a aa 400 and felt it was very loud ....a ldc is going to cost you another $125 at least. The mrod is very quiet and I wouldn't worry much about the ping sound ....always remember this in that the marauder 22 is rhe benchmark of quiet.
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You can make the ping go away by adding a depinger or by using a baby bottle brush, you can do a YouTube search for baby brush depinger and come up with a few videos that show you how simple it is to make the ping go away. One of the videos is a Tedholdover one where he adds the brush to one of his high end guns.
Also note that if you later decided to regulate the Mrod the regulator takes away all of the ping.
Don't be put off by the ping, it's the easiest thing to fix...
Also note that if you later decided to regulate the Mrod the regulator takes away all of the ping.
Don't be put off by the ping, it's the easiest thing to fix...
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Army Biker - I think we are going down the proverbial rabbit hole here.
Talking about tuning, depingers, anti-bouncebacks, chronographs, and the rest are, at least in my book, advanced topics. My advice is to take what you've got and buy the gun, get shooting. You can worry about all this other stuff later. It's kind of like, as a wood worker, I sharpen my chisels till you can shave with them, but sometimes I spend so much time sharpening I forget I'm actually supposed to be working the wood and making stuff.
Now, I'll give you one more rabbit hole bit of advice on tanks. The large 80 Cubic Foot tanks can be hard to get filled at the local paint ball shop. Some will, some won't fill because it depletes their tanks that they need for business. I get 7 to 10 refills on the 90 cu inch bottle, I get 40 shots per fill, so 300-ish shots per filling the tank.
The 80 cubic tank, using AOA's fill calculator will give you 50 plus fills, but the tank also costs more than the gun.
The other bit to consider is the size of the tank. The small tank fits into my pistol range bag. Larger tanks, are well, larger and not as easy to lug around.
Now that I've said all that, don't go into information overload, or my favorite activity, Analysis Paralysis (I spend way too much time in Analysis Paralysis) . Get shooting, you can't make a mistake on either gun.
Talking about tuning, depingers, anti-bouncebacks, chronographs, and the rest are, at least in my book, advanced topics. My advice is to take what you've got and buy the gun, get shooting. You can worry about all this other stuff later. It's kind of like, as a wood worker, I sharpen my chisels till you can shave with them, but sometimes I spend so much time sharpening I forget I'm actually supposed to be working the wood and making stuff.
Now, I'll give you one more rabbit hole bit of advice on tanks. The large 80 Cubic Foot tanks can be hard to get filled at the local paint ball shop. Some will, some won't fill because it depletes their tanks that they need for business. I get 7 to 10 refills on the 90 cu inch bottle, I get 40 shots per fill, so 300-ish shots per filling the tank.
The 80 cubic tank, using AOA's fill calculator will give you 50 plus fills, but the tank also costs more than the gun.
The other bit to consider is the size of the tank. The small tank fits into my pistol range bag. Larger tanks, are well, larger and not as easy to lug around.
Now that I've said all that, don't go into information overload, or my favorite activity, Analysis Paralysis (I spend way too much time in Analysis Paralysis) . Get shooting, you can't make a mistake on either gun.
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i just got my first PCP from Hatsan. my AT44 long QE is a great shooter. 18 shots-3 mags at 30 yards can be covered by a quarter. I put a leapers on it because i like the scopes. The trigger is great and very adjustable.
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Hahhaa. Fair enough. Well - thanks again for all the comments / thoughts / advice. You've been a great source of information for a newbie. It's actually been a fun process for me. I tend to enjoy (too much -- my wife would say)... reveling in the details when I'm learning about something new. BUT - I will, indeed, "pull the trigger" on a purchase soon.
Thanks again!!
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