GAMO Coyote Whisper vs. Benjamin Marauder: help with selecting my first PCP

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Scuba tank - I have an HPA Carbon fiber tank, so no idea where to get a good scuba tank except a dive shop.
Fill with compressed air.
Some guys do have large nitrogen tanks and shoot with nitrogen, so it would not hurt.

Now for the sad part. The Marauder Field and Target is labeled "Coming Soon". It's been labeled "Coming Soon" for months and some of our members were told that Crosman decided not to sell the product. We were all sad as a regulated version would make a good gun even better. :-(

Not sure how you even found the link to the gun as it was disconnected some time ago.

Regulator is good, but definitely not needed at this point.
 
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One more comment. There are MANY Marauder owners. It's been on the market and been the low end, entry level, magazine fed leader for more than a few years. In fairness to the coyote, it's a relatively new entrant into the space being, I believe out for one year or so. Fewer owners to speak up in support of the gun. When I bought 2 years ago, the Coyote wasn't even on the market. I would have looked at it had it been.
 
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"Saltlake58"Highly oversimplified explanation:

In an unregulated gun, the hammer hits the valve and lets air out to push the pellet down the barrel. Really simple, but the amount of air can vary with the fill pressure. 3000 PSI pressure = more air, and higher Feet per second. In reality, there's a sweet spot where air volume is relatively consistent.

In a regulated gun, it has an extra gizmo that only lets out a given amount of air, no matter what the fill pressure, (until the pressure drops below the regulator settings.). The sweet spot is usually longer, and less air is wasted = more shots per fill, more consistent performance, and usually, better accuracy, though not always.

Regulators give more consistent performance across the shot string.

And I also thought the Field and Target model was canned. That's news to me. I might have to take a look. . . . . .
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I was going to give Crosman a quick call just to check on that... but -- I just missed 'em. THANKS for the explanation regarding the regulator. Makes sense.

 
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"Saltlake58"Highly oversimplified explanation:

In an unregulated gun, the hammer hits the valve and lets air out to push the pellet down the barrel. Really simple, but the amount of air can vary with the fill pressure. 3000 PSI pressure = more air, and higher Feet per second. In reality, there's a sweet spot where air volume is relatively consistent.

In a regulated gun, it has an extra gizmo that only lets out a given amount of air, no matter what the fill pressure, (until the pressure drops below the regulator settings.). The sweet spot is usually longer, and less air is wasted = more shots per fill, more consistent performance, and usually, better accuracy, though not always.

Regulators give more consistent performance across the shot string.

And I also thought the Field and Target model was canned. That's news to me. I might have to take a look. . . . . .
Click to expand...
Ha! Just was back on the Crosman website and noticed that the Field & Target model... is "COMING SOON". I wonder how "soon" that is?! I'm anxious to GET GOING!
 
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I've got the Marauder in .25 caliber and have been VERY satisfied with it. Accuracy, trigger, adjustability for power and shot count are outstanding. I considered adding a Coyote to my arsenal but was put off when I found out the cost of spare magazines--$50 a pop! I have both Hatsan and Benjamin PCPs and have never paid more than $12.99 for a mag with any of them. If you decide on the Marauder I recommend you get the .25. There have been ongoing accuracy problems with the .22. The .25 has a barrel from Green Mountain which makes excellent barrels. The .22 is made in-house by Crosman and it's kind of the luck of draw if you get a good one.
I'll throw out a suggestion of another PCP that I own from Hatsan that's been outstanding for me in .22 and you can get right now for an amazing price. I thought I stole mine when I got it for $399. Here it is for $299. I've never seen a refurb for that price. http://www.fieldsupply.com/airguns/hatsan-at44s-10-quiet-energy-pcp-rifle-black.html
It's also VERY accurate, has a great trigger! Adjustment is easy as well. Right now it still shows that all 3 calibers are in stock which I'm really surprised at because they've been on sale for a couple of days.
Best of luck with your decision and welcome aboard!

Ed
 
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"Saltlake58"Scuba tank - I have an HPA Carbon fiber tank, so no idea where to get a good scuba tank except a dive shop.
Fill with compressed air.
Some guys do have large nitrogen tanks and shoot with nitrogen, so it would not hurt.

Now for the sad part. The Marauder Field and Target is labeled "Coming Soon". It's been labeled "Coming Soon" for months and some of our members were told that Crosman decided not to sell the product. We were all sad as a regulated version would make a good gun even better. :-(

Not sure how you even found the link to the gun as it was disconnected some time ago.

Regulator is good, but definitely not needed at this point.
Click to expand...
Roger that. I've already got a line on used (but certified) SCUBA tanks at a local dive shop. I presume one is all I will need... but two always seems better. Was thinking about buying a "shortie" to take in the field or on trips.
As for the Field & Target -- the link seems to work fine on my computer:
http://www.crosman.com/marauder-field-and-target-22-cal
But it does (I noted later) indeed say "coming soon". Thanks for the comments!
 
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"Saltlake58"One more comment. There are MANY Marauder owners. It's been on the market and been the low end, entry level, magazine fed leader for more than a few years. In fairness to the coyote, it's a relatively new entrant into the space being, I believe out for one year or so. Fewer owners to speak up in support of the gun. When I bought 2 years ago, the Coyote wasn't even on the market. I would have looked at it had it been.
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Right on. I'd love it if someone on this forum had experience with BOTH. I'd also be intrigued to learn a head-to-head comparison on noise level.
Thanks again for all the discussion.
 
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"OldCorps"I've got the Marauder in .25 caliber and have been VERY satisfied with it. Accuracy, trigger, adjustability for power and shot count are outstanding. I considered adding a Coyote to my arsenal but was put off when I found out the cost of spare magazines--$50 a pop! I have both Hatsan and Benjamin PCPs and have never paid more than $12.99 for a mag with any of them. If you decide on the Marauder I recommend you get the .25. There have been ongoing accuracy problems with the .22. The .25 has a barrel from Green Mountain which makes excellent barrels. The .22 is made in-house by Crosman and it's kind of the luck of draw if you get a good one.
I'll throw out a suggestion of another PCP that I own from Hatsan that's been outstanding for me in .22 and you can get right now for an amazing price. I thought I stole mine when I got it for $399. Here it is for $299. I've never seen a refurb for that price. http://www.fieldsupply.com/airguns/hatsan-at44s-10-quiet-energy-pcp-rifle-black.html
It's also VERY accurate, has a great trigger! Adjustment is easy as well. Right now it still shows that all 3 calibers are in stock which I'm really surprised at because they've been on sale for a couple of days.
Best of luck with your decision and welcome aboard!

Ed
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Giddy up. So.... 25 eh? I'd love to hear other comments in that regard, but I will say with all the online reading I've been doing -- I've seen a couple of folks who had to return their Marauder .22 for issues, but were satisfied with the ability to get a replacement gun. But I was wondering... why the need and what are the issue for replacements? The drawbacks I've heard of the .25 is that they simply suck more air -- and they are louder. Any comments specific to noise between .22 & .25? Noise is such an important concern, I'd go back down to .17 just for reliability and lower noise if reliability is going to be an issue with the .22
 
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Let me "Defend" the Gen 2 .22 Marauders. The Gen1's definitely had barrel problems. No doubt about that. A couple years ago, Crosman redesigned the gun, added features, and improved the barrel. I agree with Ed that the Gen1's had problems; however, my own experience with .22 Gen 2 Marauders, and what I've read from others says the Gen2 is much improved, consistent, and again accurate. It isn't a $2000 gun in quality and fit, but it outshoots me. Using the right pellets, and being careful, it performs admirably.

​Now, notice the Gen1 and Gen2 stuff. There was a complete redesign a few years ago. If you were to buy a new gun, it'll probably be a Gen2 off the shelf. I haven't seen any Gen 1's for a long time. However, if you buy a used gun, make sure it's a Gen2. Easiest way I know of to tell the difference is that the Gen1's have "Benjamin" engraved in big letters in the bottom of the stock under the barrel. Gen2's do not. It's not a foolproof method, but if it's engraved it's a Gen 1 as far a I know.

​Noise is not an issue with the Gen2.

Can't go wrong with whatever you pick. Good luck.
 
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Although the Marauder and Coyote are good accurate guns I would suggest a preowned Air Arms S410 or S510 . These guns are consistently accurate without having to do any tunes and craftsmanship is impeccable inside and out. Barrels are threaded for LDC for enhanced sound reduction. Side cocking is smooth and easy and power levels are adjustable from a dial.
 
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Scuba Tank heads up. Scuba tanks are normally pressurized to 3000 PSI. Carbon fiber tanks go up to 4500PSI. Here's the rub (before you buy extra tanks)

​If you have a Marauder, and the max fill pressure is 3000PSI, and your scuba tank pressure is 3000 PSI, you get one full pressure fill. After that, each time you fill the Marauder (Or any other gun), the scuba tank pressure drops below whatever it was before, and that's the max you can pressurize your gun to. In other words, the pressure falls fairly quickly.

On the 4500PSI buddy bottles (I believe 80 or 90cubic inches), you get multiple fills to 3000 PSI before the tank pressure drops to 300PSi and you are forced to fill a little under the max pressure.

​The main reason I went with carbon fiber is the number of fills before the carbon fiber bottle falls below 3000PSI. Yeah, this is one of the geekier parts of PCP shooting, but not to be underestimated as filling to full pressure several times before needing to refill the bottle does impact your enjoyment.

​Also make sure you add a "Fill Yoke" to the cost of your scuba tank if that's the direction you are headed. They aren't cheap. Another reason I went with the Carbon Fiber tank is that for the $300, it included the fill yoke and all the components needed to fill my gun.

​Also, if you look at an S510, you'll see the term, "FAC". That stands for Fire Arms Certificate". It's British law that any air rifle over 12 FPE requires a fire arms certificate, or license. If it's under 12 FPE, no FAC is required. Make sure you buy an FAC version. My Marauder puts out about 21 FPE in .22 the way it's currently setup. I could make it more powerful, but for now, shot count is important.

​Lots of information to digest here. Take your time, and DO enter the contest currently running for an Air Arms rifle. You might get lucky!
 
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"Saltlake58"Let me "Defend" the Gen 2 .22 Marauders. The Gen1's definitely had barrel problems. No doubt about that. A couple years ago, Crosman redesigned the gun, added features, and improved the barrel. I agree with Ed that the Gen1's had problems; however, my own experience with .22 Gen 2 Marauders, and what I've read from others says the Gen2 is much improved, consistent, and again accurate. It isn't a $2000 gun in quality and fit, but it outshoots me. Using the right pellets, and being careful, it performs admirably.

​Now, notice the Gen1 and Gen2 stuff. There was a complete redesign a few years ago. If you were to buy a new gun, it'll probably be a Gen2 off the shelf. I haven't seen any Gen 1's for a long time. However, if you buy a used gun, make sure it's a Gen2. Easiest way I know of to tell the difference is that the Gen1's have "Benjamin" engraved in big letters in the bottom of the stock under the barrel. Gen2's do not. It's not a foolproof method, but if it's engraved it's a Gen 1 as far a I know.

​Noise is not an issue with the Gen2.

Can't go wrong with whatever you pick. Good luck.
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Thanks for that! All the Marauders I'm looking at (all new) have "Marauder" engraved on the receiver near the bolt. I've been impressed, certainly, by the overwhelmingly positive reviews for this gun.
 
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"Birdo"I like my Gamo urban plenty fine. Very quiet and fine accuracy. Easy to hand pump which is a consideration for many first time pcp owners. Great for pesting

the name urban implies that it's good for in town and I agree, mine does 850 fps in 22 which I think is near perfect
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Thanks! Right on. Good to hear from the GAMO side of the ledger.
 
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"TAP"Although the Marauder and Coyote are good accurate guns I would suggest a preowned Air Arms S410 or S510 . These guns are consistently accurate without having to do any tunes and craftsmanship is impeccable inside and out. Barrels are threaded for LDC for enhanced sound reduction. Side cocking is smooth and easy and power levels are adjustable from a dial.
Click to expand...
Color me intrigued... I'll check that out. THANKS! Any clear comparisons on quiet-factor between Air Arms & the Marauder?
 
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"TAP"Although the Marauder and Coyote are good accurate guns I would suggest a preowned Air Arms S410 or S510 . These guns are consistently accurate without having to do any tunes and craftsmanship is impeccable inside and out. Barrels are threaded for LDC for enhanced sound reduction. Side cocking is smooth and easy and power levels are adjustable from a dial.
Click to expand...
Looks like a helluva gun -- but not seeing any used versions on eBay (you have any other places to look for used?) - and kind of breaks out the top of the piggy bank. I see a G-note version on Amazon - but that's before optics & SCUBA tank etc. Hmmmmm. Pondering.
 
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"Saltlake58"Scuba Tank heads up. Scuba tanks are normally pressurized to 3000 PSI. Carbon fiber tanks go up to 4500PSI. Here's the rub (before you buy extra tanks)

​If you have a Marauder, and the max fill pressure is 3000PSI, and your scuba tank pressure is 3000 PSI, you get one full pressure fill. After that, each time you fill the Marauder (Or any other gun), the scuba tank pressure drops below whatever it was before, and that's the max you can pressurize your gun to. In other words, the pressure falls fairly quickly.

On the 4500PSI buddy bottles (I believe 80 or 90cubic inches), you get multiple fills to 3000 PSI before the tank pressure drops to 300PSi and you are forced to fill a little under the max pressure.

​The main reason I went with carbon fiber is the number of fills before the carbon fiber bottle falls below 3000PSI. Yeah, this is one of the geekier parts of PCP shooting, but not to be underestimated as filling to full pressure several times before needing to refill the bottle does impact your enjoyment.

​Also make sure you add a "Fill Yoke" to the cost of your scuba tank if that's the direction you are headed. They aren't cheap. Another reason I went with the Carbon Fiber tank is that for the $300, it included the fill yoke and all the components needed to fill my gun.

​Also, if you look at an S510, you'll see the term, "FAC". That stands for Fire Arms Certificate". It's British law that any air rifle over 12 FPE requires a fire arms certificate, or license. If it's under 12 FPE, no FAC is required. Make sure you buy an FAC version. My Marauder puts out about 21 FPE in .22 the way it's currently setup. I could make it more powerful, but for now, shot count is important.

​Lots of information to digest here. Take your time, and DO enter the contest currently running for an Air Arms rifle. You might get lucky!
Click to expand...
Hahahaa. You guys are certainly filling my head up with all kinds o info I hadn't even begun to ponder. Can't thank you enough. NOW you've got me thining about Carbon Fiber. Would you have a recommended place to buy that? My local SCUBA shop won't have those... I don't suspect.
 
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